Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[JimEIV]

music subscription? whats that?

I never had 8 tracks. My mom had some though

 

[JimEIV]

At least we are talking about playoff possibilities and not who the next draft pick will be.

 

[Bleedred]

We actually won the series vs the Caps, Carolina was a split. Caps we won both on the road and Carolina we won both at home...

Caps
10/12 away 5-3 Win
10/19 home 6-5 OT Loss
11/23 away 3-2 Win
11/30 home 6-5 Loss

Carolina
10/15 Away 4-2 Loss
11/21 Home 4-2 Win
12/27 Home 4-2 Win
12/28 Away 5-2 Loss

And we went 2-1-0 when Markstrom played the Canes, and 2-0-1 when Markstrom played the Caps.

Yes, the Canes had Spencer Martin in for one of the wins, but we have winning records over them with Markstrom. Allen set the dynamite late in losses to both teams.

Not that this definitely means anything. We swept LA and Tampa in the years we were eliminated by them and split with Carolina the year we got eliminated by them.

But I think we can beat either of them or we can lose to either of them.

 

[Emperoreddy]

We won a round with Ruff with a roster that really wasn't built for the playoffs and featuring a lot of players playoff debuts.

All the good parts of that team are still here but now with a much meanier supporting cast and a proper shut down defense, a better coach, and better goalies.

I see no reason barring bad injury luck why this team can't at minimum replicate the 22-23 success.

 

[Dialamo]

Carolina has won exactly nothing in the playoffs. I'm not sure why they are being propped up as unbeatable in the post season when they constantly lose.

Make more sense to talk like this about Tampa or Florida who have actually won cups

Close to nothing. They got lucky in 2006, otherwise they would really have won exactly nothing. If Dwayne Roloson didn't get injured, I think the Oilers win in 6.

I freaking hate this playoff format btw...

#1 should play #8 and reseed after each round. Wildcard, At large...whatever the hell you call 7 and 8 nonsense is stupid too.

The Divisional play rewards mediocre teams in shit divisions.... it's how Patrick Roy accumulated so many playoff wins when either Boston or Montreal was basically a guarantee to get to the conference finals. ...all while the Patrick Division was beating the hell out of each other in a vicious dog fight.

I don't like the way the playoffs are seeded either. It should be #1to #8. The NHL can get something similar (with drawbacks) to that come playoff time and not even need to change the wildcard format for the regular season.

Play out the regular season as normal and use the wildcard format to determine who makes the playoffs. When the regular season concludes, for each conference, take all the 8 teams that made the playoffs, then rank them #1-#8 by points, then by the usual tiebreakers.

The drawback to this, which is also present in the current system, is that when a division is very weak, 3 teams guaranteed will make it, instead of only 1 from the previous system. If the Atlantic is very weak for example, like where almost all teams of the Metro outrank them in points at the end of the season (the Jackets don't even make it in my example ), 2 bad teams and 1 mid team (the division winner) will make the playoffs. This is opposed to the previous #1-#8 system, which only rewarded the division winner with a guaranteed playoff spot.

While flawed, at least we may see different round #1 and #2 matchups.

 

[My3Sons]

I think this explains it...

"If anybody wants to know why Gen X is always mad, it's because we had to replace our record collections with a cassette collection that we had to replace with a CD collection that we had to replace with an MP3 collection, and now we need a subscription to listen to music."

Makes perfect sense.

100% true except now we apparently have to buy records again.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Caps lose. We remain in first. Basically same spot we were in before the weekend began.

 

[Devs3cups]

Caps lose. We remain in first. Basically same spot we were in before the weekend began.

Makes it easier to digest last night's L.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

Bob isn't having a good year, which is nothing new for him since he came to Florida. He's probably had more mediocre to bad regular seasons there than good ones.

I feel like he truly treats it like a job that we would have. He breezes through the TPS report part of the season... but then games up for the big projects when he needs to.

 

[billingtons ghost]

While I don’t blame anyone for being skeptical of the Devils being elite, can we at least have an honest discussion of how many ‘proven’ elite teams there are in the NHL atm? Five…if that? Colorado and Tampa aren’t the same teams who won Cups, even the Caps have changed over a lot. Regular season teams like Carolina and Toronto also have a lot to prove in the playoffs. Boston and Pittsburgh have certainly changed over and aged.

Yeah that's good.

I think outside of an aging, but cornerstone Stamkos, Tampa is the same team. Hagel and others have stepped up and they've successfully reloaded around the same goalie.

Tampa, Carolina, wpg, tor, fla, vgk

 

[billingtons ghost]

the entire point is that previous seasons are meaningless. There is no one way to win a Cup. Some teams are in the playoffs for years and years then finally break through. Some teams suck shit for years and years then win one within 1-2 years. Some teams are consistently good but never win shit ala NYR and CAR.

this season has nothing to do with last season let alone a season 11 years ago.

Hilarious.
Show me a wealth of teams that won coming completely out of nowhere without winning anything the year before or two years before. You think every season is in a vacuum eh?

 

[billingtons ghost]

I don't really know how we are going to react come playoff time, I'm just not assuming everyone is going to wilt.

No one expected McLeod to turn into a playoff warrior.

I don't think all of our bottom 6 guys are going to remain shooting as cold as they have been, and I think Fitz is going to find an extra forward to help as well.

See how Keefe manages these series but I think we have solid odds

Idk. I think when MacLeod was drafted he was totally cast as a playoff warrior with a 200ft game, and good engine and good skater although I always thought he skates weirdly

View attachment 953013

This isn’t exactly a menacing group. The 4th line is quite soft.

Third line plays tougher than our entire team.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Look at that 3rd line...

6'2-220. 6'4-220. 6'1-208

Now who are we matching?

Cotter-Haula-Mercer?

6'2-212. 5'11-191. 6'-180

That's 6'' and 65 lbs difference for those three players. That says nothing about the fight in the dog of course...but I rather have that advantage than not.

Second line is bigger and tougher too

 

[billingtons ghost]

We won a round with Ruff with a roster that really wasn't built for the playoffs and featuring a lot of players playoff debuts.

All the good parts of that team are still here but now with a much meanier supporting cast and a proper shut down defense, a better coach, and better goalies.

I see no reason barring bad injury luck why this team can't at minimum replicate the 22-23 success.

Completely agree.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I wouldn’t consider the Devils coming out of nowhere if they went far this year. This same core won a series two years ago. Last year they were a bubble team if they had a normal injury season. This season they made the right moves.

NJ been on teams radar since 2022-2023 after that crazy winning streak

 

[guitarguyvic]

Hilarious.
Show me a wealth of teams that won coming completely out of nowhere without winning anything the year before or two years before. You think every season is in a vacuum eh?

Why are we pretending like this team is coming out of nowhere when they won a playoff series two years ago?

Also yes...there are several examples of teams that had a lot of success pretty quickly. The Crosby Penguins won exactly 0 playoff rounds before going to the Final in 2008. The Chicago Blackhawks missed the playoffs five years in a row before making it to the conference final in 2009 and then winning the whole thing they next year after that. The Kopitar-Doughty era LA Kings won zero playoff series before trampling the opposition to win the cup in 2012. The Nashville Predators won exactly one series in four years prior to making the Final in 2017. The Vegas Golden Knights didn't even exist the year before they made the Final the first time. The current iteration of the Panthers won one playoff series before making the Final in 2023 and they were not considered an "upper echelon" team before that.

 

[NjDevsRR]

You know the team is good when the board is bickering about definitions of how teams should be labeled as contenders lmao

 

[BurntToast]

What I love the most about the playoffs, is the completely B.S “wildcard” system. The NHL has had 16 teams since 87’. It’s super cool how they changed the 1-8 format made it 1 (2-3) and called the non top 3 “wildcard” teams.

I love that the NHL never changes outside of adding or changing a team every other year (robing my team of players and decreasing their playoff chances). Who cares if every other major sport expands their playoffs. No biggie..

 

[billingtons ghost]

Why are we pretending like this team is coming out of nowhere when they won a playoff series two years ago?

Also yes...there are several examples of teams that had a lot of success pretty quickly. The Crosby Penguins won exactly 0 playoff rounds before going to the Final in 2008. The Chicago Blackhawks missed the playoffs five years in a row before making it to the conference final in 2009 and then winning the whole thing they next year after that. The Kopitar-Doughty era LA Kings won zero playoff series before trampling the opposition to win the cup in 2012. The Nashville Predators won exactly one series in four years prior to making the Final in 2017. The Vegas Golden Knights didn't even exist the year before they made the Final the first time. The current iteration of the Panthers won one playoff series before making the Final in 2023 and they were not considered an "upper echelon" team before that.

You just moved the goalposts. The talk was of winning. So Crosby Pens needed to go to the finals before winning it. (Proves my point, thanks).
Blackhawks went to the conf finals before winning it, proves my point again, thanks.
Vegas went to the finals before winning it.
Panthers went to the final before winning it.

Those are all points I was making. My response was to the "previous seasons are meaningless" comments.

I'll give you the Kings. That's one team that came out of nowhere to win a cup.

The Devils aren't coming out of nowhere, but neither have they proven anything quite yet to be considered "an elite team".

 

[billingtons ghost]

I wouldn’t consider the Devils coming out of nowhere if they went far this year. This same core won a series two years ago. Last year they were a bubble team if they had a normal injury season. This season they made the right moves.

NJ been on teams radar since 2022-2023 after that crazy winning streak

I wouldn't consider it a surprise if they went to the Finals.

I'd be surprised if they won it, bc it seems like teams have to have a decently long run, trip to the conference finals or finals, before they figure out what it exactly takes to win it all. Not saying it's a requirement, just that it sure seems like it happens quite a bit.

 

[Triumph]

Why are we pretending like this team is coming out of nowhere when they won a playoff series two years ago?

Also yes...there are several examples of teams that had a lot of success pretty quickly. The Crosby Penguins won exactly 0 playoff rounds before going to the Final in 2008. The Chicago Blackhawks missed the playoffs five years in a row before making it to the conference final in 2009 and then winning the whole thing they next year after that. The Kopitar-Doughty era LA Kings won zero playoff series before trampling the opposition to win the cup in 2012. The Nashville Predators won exactly one series in four years prior to making the Final in 2017. The Vegas Golden Knights didn't even exist the year before they made the Final the first time. The current iteration of the Panthers won one playoff series before making the Final in 2023 and they were not considered an "upper echelon" team before that.

To add to this, the 1996 Avs never won a round before winning the Stanley Cup. It's just all made up - of course it's rare that a team 'comes out of nowhere' to win a Stanley Cup, because winning a Stanley Cup is a rare event that only one team can do per season.

 

[guitarguyvic]

You just moved the goalposts. The talk was of winning. So Crosby Pens needed to go to the finals before winning it. (Proves my point, thanks).
Blackhawks went to the conf finals before winning it, proves my point again, thanks.
Vegas went to the finals before winning it.
Panthers went to the final before winning it.

Those are all points I was making. My response was to the "previous seasons are meaningless" comments.

I'll give you the Kings. That's one team that came out of nowhere to win a cup.

The Devils aren't coming out of nowhere, but neither have they proven anything quite yet to be considered "an elite team".

Uh no, you’re moving the goalposts because if you look back through the discussion no one was talking about the Cup winners specifically, it was about what makes a team “elite” or “upper echelon”. With Jim specifically saying the devils are not in the same tier as a team with a current longer reputation of success like the Carolina Hurricanes - a team whose current iteration has not even made the Final much less won a Cup.

There was no goal post shifting - there are numerous examples of teams over the last 15 years who didn’t do jack shit before immediately going on a long playoff run and suddenly within one post season were viewed as as “elite” or “upper echelon” or whatever other nebulous term you want to use. Shit, the Hurricanes themselves started their current run of success by going to the conference finals literally the very first post-season after missing the playoffs nine years in a row.

The idea that the devils aren’t likely to go far this year because they haven’t made the playoffs enough or won enough rounds before this is silly and not backed up by anything objective. And yes that includes winning it all.

Do I think they can get past a Washington or Carolina? I’m not super confident, but it has nothing to do with what the devils have or haven’t done in the seasons before this.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Third line plays tougher than our entire team.

this is such a silly way of analyzing things. They’re scary because their 3rd line with 85 year old Jordan Staal is so big and tough.

And you just described a line with Kotkaniemi and Necas as “bigger and tougher”…what are we doing here?

Jarvis? Same size as Bratt, way fewer hits. Roslovic? Complete floater, 7 hits. Jackson Blake, 7 hits. Tyson Jost, under 6 feet, no grit at all.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I mean, the devils knocked out the rangers in the first round two years ago. Going into that series, who was the team that had already “proven” itself in the playoffs? How did that work out for said team?

Oh and that “proven” team had playoff success almost immediately as well…conference finals the year before after missing the playoffs four consecutive seasons prior.

Hilarious how many examples there are that completely destroy this argument.

 

[None Shall Pass]

The team is 24-15 (24-12-3, if you wanna be the NHL about it). Who cares what we call it? It's a good team that can compete against anyone and needs a bottom-6 upgrade or two to be even better. Enjoy it, sheesh.