Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[TheBeerNerd]

Mental toughness is what people say in the absence of physical toughness.

Meier is useless too.

Well, for starters, we were mentally weak last year, and visibly so. The team got discouraged very easily, played with an attitude of entitlement, and deflated at any adversity. So that alone is an improvement. As for physical toughness, they're one of the teams with the most fights in the NHL. We got guys like Dillon and Noesen for toughness reasons. Last night aside, they aren't pushovers.

Don't know why you included that snipe at Meier either.

 

[My3Sons]

I think we'll make the playoffs. Lots of easy points still available. But we'll be short lived unless Fitz does something significant with the roster...As is, the first punch in the mouth and we're done.

I'm usually pretty critical of them playing soft, but NJ was and maybe still is leading the league in fighting majors. Dillon, Cotter, MacDermid, and Kovacevic have typically all stepped up as needed. Timo getting suspended for striking a guy in the face. They've largely been fine at the ugly part of things. No good team is 100% feisty 100% of the time. Look at the games against Florida. No real shenanigans or game changing physical plays by the defending Cup champs. It happens. it's a long season with ups and downs. I don't think NJ has lost every tough game this season nor have Jack and Bratt folded from a hit. I'd like to see the bottom six throw more weight around or even better take a few heads off but they've done ok.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Nah, those shit teams are playing in 2nd half mode already...they have to. They have to keep every game close to have a chance...

The elite teams are still tiptoeing through the pleasant days of the season doing fun stuff. Soon as the Devils face physical adversity they fold like bitches

So the devils only score on good teams because those teams are “tiptoeing” through the season…but this doesn’t apply to the devils when they have a game like last night. And for some reason Toronto wasn’t “tiptoeing” last night.

Seems you apply different standards from game to game and to the devils vs other teams in order to rationalize an extremely subjective opinion.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The cool thing about toughness is that the word is so vague you can shift the meaning around to be whatever you want it to be. Is toughness hitting? Is it fighting? Is it forechecking? Is it battling back from deficits? Is it blocked shots? Is it PIMs?

You can massage the definition to make any team "tough" or "soft" depending on your own personal confirmation bias.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

The cool thing about toughness is that the word is so vague you can shift the meaning around to be whatever you want it to be. Is toughness hitting? Is it fighting? Is it forechecking? Is it battling back from deficits? Is it blocked shots? Is it PIMs?

You can massage the definition to make any team "tough" or "soft" depending on your own personal confirmation bias.

It's like obscenity- you know it when you see it.

 

[AfroThunder396]

It's like obscenity- you know it when you see it.

I think a lot of people on this board have bad vision.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I think a lot of people on this board have bad vision.

I mean you’re right is a nebulous concept. But BeerNerd is right too…you know it when you see it and yeah it encompasses some of the things you mentioned some of the times and other of those things other times.

I think it’s easier to identify when a team is soft rather than when a team is “tough”. I think being soft can be generalized this way…if you see a team getting pushed around physically - whether that’s on the forecheck, or through hits, or dirty plays, any or all of that - and there’s no response either through some of that type of physicality just mentioned or by making the opponent “pay” on the scoreboard…that to me is soft. So I’m not one of those people who would say a team is “tough” just because they statistically have a lot of fights or play dirty like Toronto did last night. But if you’re the team on the receiving end of dirty plays as the devils were last night and you didn’t respond in some fashion - either by getting dirty too, or punishing them with a huge amount of hits, or ramping up the forecheck, or scoring on them to win the game - all things the devils failed to do last night btw - yeah that’s the epitome of being soft.

 

[Bcap88]

Complaining about a team that’s probably going to finish with over 100 points is wild to me

 

[devilsblood]

Our home fans have been brutal at times this year. Consistently boo the team during down periods while we're winning tons of games, get vocally obnoxious with our guys when the (league-best) power play is working the puck around to find shooting lanes and won't "shoot the puck", etc.

Then when the refs miss blatant calls and the fans SHOULD be vocal, you can hear a pin drop in the place.

Slight defense of the fans is that the team has not been good at home.

If i were a regular(admittedly I'm not) and the team was consistently losing games i pay a bunch of money to go to id get frustrated too.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Complaining about a team that’s probably going to finish with over 100 points is wild to me

The fanbase really is obnoxious. I was at the Colorado game in section 12 and it was just brutal. People booing the #1 power play in the league and just mindlessly demanding that they shoot. There was one guy who was just yelling all game long using expletives and going off on Dougie, I was close to saying something but I was there with my 8 year old daughter. I’ve been fairly critical of Dougie this season but this guy’s ranting was completely over the top…I also usually like the crowd to be a bit rowdy as it makes for a more fun atmosphere but this guy was taking it to a way more serious level than it needed to be.

On the one hand good teams should be able to find ways to win home games, on the other you have to wonder how much the negative behavior of the fans at the rock impact the teams performance. Guess it’s a bit of a circular issue.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

People want to say the team is soft. Who on the Devils is going to do a simple thing like Benn in this video and retaliate with a huge hit the first chance they can get it ? The only players I can think of are maybe Cotter , Noesen , Haula , Dillon or Kovacevic.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

People want to say the team is soft. Who on the Devils is going to do a simple thing like Benn in this video and retaliate with a huge hit the first chance they can get it ? The only players I can think of are maybe Cotter , Noesen , Haula , Dillon or Kovacevic.

"The only players I can think of are five players"

 

[guitarguyvic]

People want to say the team is soft. Who on the Devils is going to do a simple thing like Benn in this video and retaliate with a huge hit the first chance they can get it ? The only players I can think of are maybe Cotter , Noesen , Haula , Dillon or Kovacevic.

Benn is a large top six guy. The equivalent on our team should be Timo. We’ve seen some of this from him but probably not enough. I think it’s perfectly fair to say it’s soft. There’s several different ways teams can respond to opponents’ “toughness”…see my previous post.

 

[Devils731]

People want to say the team is soft. Who on the Devils is going to do a simple thing like Benn in this video and retaliate with a huge hit the first chance they can get it ? The only players I can think of are maybe Cotter , Noesen , Haula , Dillon or Kovacevic.

The Devils spent like 30 minutes going after that guy on Florida earlier in the year.

I don’t think the Devils viewed the hit as a big deal. I go by their reaction in game and after the game.

Hits they do view as a big deal, the team has been retaliating in those instances this year, imo.

 

[guitarguyvic]

"The only players I can think of are five players"

I think you can add Timo to the list so probably more like six. But I think it’s still a valid point because if the only guys willing to do some dirty/difficult physical work are mid and bottom tier players who don’t see the most ice time, that’s the sign a soft team. That’s why I say we need to see more of this from a guy like Timo. Even him alone is not much. We should have maybe 1-2 more top guys willing and capable of matching physical intensity with opponents.

 

[NJDevs26]

Slight defense of the fans is that the team has not been good at home.

If i were a regular(admittedly I'm not) and the team was consistently losing games i pay a bunch of money to go to id get frustrated too.

I actually thought the fans were fine last night but partly because the damn Leaf fans kept trying to take over the building.

 

[BomaLightDevils]

Is Jack okay? Just Saw the hit..

 

[guitarguyvic]

Another component of being soft I didn’t mention…getting knocked on your ass easily. The 2012 team that made the final didn’t have a ton of guys that would be considered big hitters or anything, but they were big enough and strong enough to stay on their skates and top six guys like Kovy and Zubrus could dish it out in response if needed. This current top six core gets knocked around much easier and more frequently without the ability or desire to dish it back out. Bad combo and again I think this is part of what people view as “soft”.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I like Keefe and think he’s an exponentially better coach than Lindy. That being said, like all coaches in this league it seems, he has weird specific annoying weaknesses. It took a couple of months to surface, but it seems Keefe has two - a stubbornness with the lines (total opposite of what we’ve had with most of our coaches the last decade) and some really dumb player choices in overtime.

Why does every coach have to do at least a couple of things that just seem to defy common sense? Frustrating.

 

[JrFischer54]

Can you post the source. I dumped that app a long time ago

No real credible source that i could see just the algo picks up on something and then feeds you everything about it

 

[Better Call Sal]

Yes, Bill! Yes!

 

[Cheddabombs]

Yes, Bill! Yes!

OH MY!

 

[Billdo]

The cool thing about toughness is that the word is so vague you can shift the meaning around to be whatever you want it to be. Is toughness hitting? Is it fighting? Is it forechecking? Is it battling back from deficits? Is it blocked shots? Is it PIMs?

You can massage the definition to make any team "tough" or "soft" depending on your own personal confirmation bias.

Just like hockey IQ. It's a stat-less, unmeasurable attribute ppl want to use to voice their opinion one way or another.

 

[Better Call Sal]

BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL

 

[Clam Jensen]

I like Keefe and think he’s an exponentially better coach than Lindy. That being said, like all coaches in this league it seems, he has weird specific annoying weaknesses. It took a couple of months to surface, but it seems Keefe has two - a stubbornness with the lines (total opposite of what we’ve had with most of our coaches the last decade) and some really dumb player choices in overtime.

Why does every coach have to do at least a couple of things that just seem to defy common sense? Frustrating.

Yea Pesce to start stunk. Should’ve went Hughes/hughes/bratt then Nico/Timo/Dougie. Full send.