Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[SteveCangialosi123]

 

[My3Sons]

Oh thank heaven. He’s totally responsible for the three game losing streak.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Somebody gave me a site to watch hockey on my computer as long as I had an ad bloc.

Like a dumb ass I lost the title of the site.

If you are out there can you please give it to me again?

 

[Bleedred]

Has DeSimone been on the roster the entire time? I remember him randomly called up a few weeks back, but he never played and I never heard anything else about him.

That was completely random.

 

[forceten]

Carolina also has an owner who is a touch cheap. DeAngelo and Gostisbehere partially make up for Hamilton but neither equal him. Burns turns 40 this season and isn’t exactly the same player - but he’s been fabulous for them. They’ve lucked out - they didn’t want to pay for Hamilton but have managed to get by without him with second (Gostisbehere) and third (DeAngelo) tier offensive defensemen.

Brind’Amour is the best coach in the league and the team buys in - or you’re out. Conform or be cast out (Rush) like Haula who wouldn’t conform and he was sent out

 

[Incharge1976]

DeAngelo and Gostisbehere partially make up for Hamilton but neither equal him.

.

 

[Incharge1976]

Edit

Carolina also has an owner who is a touch cheap. DeAngelo and Gostisbehere partially make up for Hamilton but neither equal him. Burns turns 40 this season and isn’t exactly the same player - but he’s been fabulous for them. They’ve lucked out - they didn’t want to pay for Hamilton but have managed to get by without him with second (Gostisbehere) and third (DeAngelo) tier offensive defensemen.

Brind’Amour is the best coach in the league and the team buys in - or you’re out. Conform or be cast out (Rush) like Haula who wouldn’t conform and he was sent out

No one here is saying we will get equal production from the person that takes over his spot. We can use his money to improve a non-existent bottom six and slide a very good prospect into a 3rd pairing roll.

This isn't about "Dougie stinks". This is asset and cap management. It's about improving your team.

Palat is less likely to be moved than Dougie since moving Palat opens up another hole. Sure he can get moved, but it doesn't decrease the likelihood of Dougie being moved at all.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Dougie has 4 pts in the last 12 games while playing like 18 minutes/game. This "WE CANT FUNCTION WITHOUT HIM!" stuff is weird.

yes, Luke doesnt have his shot, but he can do everything else Dougie can on a PP. Probably even better, because he can actually move.

 

[dgibb10]

Dougie has 4 pts in the last 12 games while playing like 18 minutes/game. This "WE CANT FUNCTION WITHOUT HIM!" stuff is weird.

yes, Luke doesnt have his shot, but he can do everything else Dougie can on a PP. Probably even better, because he can actually move.

Yes, luke doesn't have his shot.

In fact, nobody else on that PP has a real cannon to threaten from the point.

Teams can defend much differently when they don't have to respect a Dougie bomb from the point. They can tighten right up and clog the middle

 

[dgibb10]

Carolina also has an owner who is a touch cheap. DeAngelo and Gostisbehere partially make up for Hamilton but neither equal him. Burns turns 40 this season and isn’t exactly the same player - but he’s been fabulous for them. They’ve lucked out - they didn’t want to pay for Hamilton but have managed to get by without him with second (Gostisbehere) and third (DeAngelo) tier offensive defensemen.

Brind’Amour is the best coach in the league and the team buys in - or you’re out. Conform or be cast out (Rush) like Haula who wouldn’t conform and he was sent out

Burns is the dougie replacement in carolina (at least 5v5), not DeAngelo or Ghost.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Yes, luke doesn't have his shot.

In fact, nobody else on that PP has a real cannon to threaten from the point.

Teams can defend much differently when they don't have to respect a Dougie bomb from the point. They can tighten right up and clog the middle

if Dougie made $4-5 million/year you could convince me that this is worthwhile.

at $9 million/year, I don't want to keep a guy for a threat of what he might do. Especially one essentially playing 3rd pairing ES minutes. I like Dougie and he has been a good Devil. But I don't think he is really needed anymore, especially at his $$.

you could re-arrange the PP and put Timo on there somehow, he has a big shot.

 

[Forge]

Both things can be true.

The Devils can't replace Dougie and get 100% of his play from Nemec or Casey next year.

Moving on from Dougie is the right call to re-allocate assets

 

[dgibb10]

if Dougie made $4-5 million/year you could convince me that this is worthwhile.

at $9 million/year, I don't want to keep a guy for a threat of what he might do. Especially one essentially playing 3rd pairing ES minutes. I like Dougie and he has been a good Devil. But I don't think he is really needed anymore, especially at his $$.

you could re-arrange the PP and put Timo on there somehow, he has a big shot.

Timo does not have an elite shot lmao. He's a volume shooter. Especially not a cannon from the point. That would also be a PP where every guy except the netfront guy is a lefty.

4-5 mill for one of the best PP QBs in the league and one of the best offensive driving dman in hockey is delusional levels of wishful thinking.

He still more than tilts the ice 5v5 while dragging along our clear number 6 dman. There are a grand total of 12 RHD in the league with a better xGoals share than him. We're complaining about a level of play that most teams would be BEGGING for. And he does it consistently, year in, year out.

People seem to have mixed up other dman also playing at an elite level with dougie declining.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Both things can be true.

New to HF?

 

[tailfins]

Have any of the people advocating for trading Dougie in this recent discussion paid attention to what's going on in Utica?

Casey is week to week with an upper body injury. It's unclear what the issue is or how well he'll recover. From what I saw from @Bad Goalie , Casey was playing well when he was in, but it seems he was still having trouble matching up with size. That's a major reason he was down there.

The report on Nemec, meanwhile, is that he hasn't improved his defensive game much. Decision-making, net front battles, positioning all need work. Comparisons to Faber are ridiculous. Faber signed an 8 year $68 million deal after last year. Do we think Nemec is anywhere close to that?

If you're going to say that the Canes decision proves the limited market for Dougie, they replaced him by trading for Burns who had 3 years left on his deal. Yes, they paid very little and got him retained, but the cap situation was also fairly uncertain and Burns was *37 years old*. IMO, the issue the Canes had with Dougie was term, not cap hit. Dougie will be coming off a productive year with three years of term left. Signing anyone else similarly productive in a rising cap environment will likely cost minimum of $6 million with at least 4 years (more likely 5 - 7) of term.

 

[dgibb10]

Both things can be true.

The Devils can't replace Dougie and get 100% of his play from Nemec or Casey next year.

Moving on from Dougie is the right call to re-allocate assets

At the right price sure, happy to move him

If we're getting bent over and fleeced on giving away dougie at 4.5 mill real money for peanuts, (almost certainly to a contender), in a PITIFUL RHD UFA market, to pay a guy big bucks after 1 quality year, to downgrade 5v5, downgrade significantly on the PP, and try and mildly upgrade the performance of the Jack-Bratt line (trust me THIS winger will FINALLY be the one to change things, I PROMISE it will be different this time and not like when we tried palat, haula, yegor, mercer, Meier, Toffoli, etc etc etc)

Then it's foolish.

The cap is rising big time, and the UFA RHD market sucks ass this year.

We will have plenty of cap by simply dumping Palat (in the perfect year to dump a contract with a cap spike).

And if you need to move on from dougie after next year, it is very easy when he makes a TINY 3 mill a year in real money in his final 2 years.

Heck, the team that acquires him will have to pay him just ONE million in real money for 26-27. Barely above league minimum

 

[Forge]

At the right price sure, happy to move him

If we're getting bent over and fleeced on giving away dougie at 4.5 mill real money for peanuts, (almost certainly to a contender), in a PITIFUL RHD UFA market, to pay a guy big bucks after 1 quality year, to downgrade 5v5, downgrade significantly on the PP, and try and mildly upgrade the performance of the Jack-Bratt line (trust me THIS winger will FINALLY be the one to change things, I PROMISE it will be different this time and not like when we tried palat, haula, yegor, mercer, Meier, Toffoli, etc etc etc)

Then it's foolish.

The cap is rising big time, and the UFA RHD market sucks ass this year.

We will have plenty of cap by simply dumping Palat (in the perfect year to dump a contract with a cap spike).

And if you need to move on from dougie after next year, it is very easy when he makes a TINY 3 mill a year in real money in his final 2 years.

Heck, the team that acquires him will have to pay him just ONE million in real money for 26-27. Barely above league minimum

I think the most likely situation is that he sticks around.

I have no doubt Fitz will shop him about a bit, but I'm not so sure they actually move on from him.

 

[dgibb10]

Have any of the people advocating for trading Dougie in this recent discussion paid attention to what's going on in Utica?

Casey is week to week with an upper body injury. It's unclear what the issue is or how well he'll recover. From what I saw from @Bad Goalie , Casey was playing well when he was in, but it seems he was still having trouble matching up with size. That's a major reason he was down there.

The report on Nemec, meanwhile, is that he hasn't improved his defensive game much. Decision-making, net front battles, positioning all need work. Comparisons to Faber are ridiculous. Faber signed an 8 year $68 million deal after last year. Do we think Nemec is anywhere close to that?

If you're going to say that the Canes decision proves the limited market for Dougie, they replaced him by trading for Burns who had 3 years left on his deal. Yes, they paid very little and got him retained, but the cap situation was also fairly uncertain and Burns was *37 years old*. IMO, the issue the Canes had with Dougie was term, not cap hit. Dougie will be coming off a productive year with three years of term left. Signing anyone else similarly productive in a rising cap environment will likely cost minimum of $6 million with at least 4 years (more likely 5 - 7) of term.

"Signing anyone else similarly productive in a rising cap environment will likely cost minimum of $6 million with at least 4 years (more likely 5 - 7) of term."

The closest comp for dougies contract is Orlov. You can get an Orlov caliber player for Dougie's money (7.75 mill equivalent to around 8.6 mill in next years money), and that's for a lefty.

 

[dgibb10]

I think the most likely situation is that he sticks around.

I have no doubt Fitz will shop him about a bit, but I'm not so sure they actually move on from him.

I agree.

Dougie at 9 mill is gonna look fine and dandy when Bouchard and Dobson sign for like 11 each (and that's with RFA rights)

 

[dgibb10]

Gibb Any chance Ross Colton gets let go by Avs? He's always been a hope for me. Landy coming back makes this the only way imo

I'd want him fs but I doubt he moves

But the Devils have options to replace Hamilton on the PP1 with Luke and Nemec/Casey. And with the top 4 set with Luke-Pesce and Siengthaler-Kovacevic (If re-signed) then you're just looking for a player to fill in as a 3rd pairing, PP 1/2 option. Saying his role is a 3rd paring PP QB isn't to dismiss the quality of the player it's to showcase that the Devils don't need to be paying $9M to fill that role.

Carolina was able to replace him with Tony DeAngelo, Brent Burns with retained salary and Ghost. If one of the best organizations in the NHL thought replacing Hamilton for cheap was the best option then why four years later when his game has declined a bit is it crazy to imply that the Devils would be better off going cheaper in such a role and using that cap space to improve other areas?

Carolina also let Pesce and Noesen go.

Should we ship them out as well?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Have any of the people advocating for trading Dougie in this recent discussion paid attention to what's going on in Utica?

Casey is week to week with an upper body injury. It's unclear what the issue is or how well he'll recover. From what I saw from @Bad Goalie , Casey was playing well when he was in, but it seems he was still having trouble matching up with size. That's a major reason he was down there.

The report on Nemec, meanwhile, is that he hasn't improved his defensive game much. Decision-making, net front battles, positioning all need work. Comparisons to Faber are ridiculous. Faber signed an 8 year $68 million deal after last year. Do we think Nemec is anywhere close to that?

If you're going to say that the Canes decision proves the limited market for Dougie, they replaced him by trading for Burns who had 3 years left on his deal. Yes, they paid very little and got him retained, but the cap situation was also fairly uncertain and Burns was *37 years old*. IMO, the issue the Canes had with Dougie was term, not cap hit. Dougie will be coming off a productive year with three years of term left. Signing anyone else similarly productive in a rising cap environment will likely cost minimum of $6 million with at least 4 years (more likely 5 - 7) of term.

No one is saying trade him now. We're taking this summer.

 

[devilsfan950003]

No changes. Same results.

 

[RSeen]

I'm not so sure how much I believe in Mercer anymore. You would hope you get good value from an RFA signing but I don't think he is even worth his cap hit and isn't getting any better or stronger (it appears).

I don't see him as a top 6 player and he is not effective enough to create his own chances on a third line. Also not physical enough to create disruption on the forecheck.

 

[Forge]

I'm not so sure how much I believe in Mercer anymore. You would hope you get good value from an RFA signing but I don't think he is even worth his cap hit and isn't getting any better or stronger (it appears).

I don't see him as a top 6 player and he is not effective enough to create his own chances on a third line. Also not physical enough to create disruption on the forecheck.

I think he's worth the cap hit, but you'd hope for surplus value and not just being worth the cap hit on an RFA deal for a young player and I'm not sure you're going to get that from Mercer during this deal.

 

[Oneiro]

There's been little to no improvement from Mercer which is the troubling bit.