Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Forge]

Gonna be a long summer here

 

[TrufleShufle]

No it's not. But there are a couple other posters in this thread saying that.

I'm not jumping over what you're saying. I'm saying the likeliest explanation is that he was the "coordinator", given he got the second charge, and not that he randomly showed up in promise of pizza.

Yea, I've said as much as well.....

But my understanding of the American courts is that you have to be sure in what you are convicting someone with, because if it turns out to be a lesser charge, the case won't stick. Think of the different types of "murder." It can't be dropped down, so you need to be sure if it was murder in whatever degree because it can't be dropped to manslaughter. Or something to that affect that I'm sure I'm screwing up. @My3Sons please chime in.

So with that said, "McLeod faces an additional charge of sexual assault “by being a party to the offence.”"

Is it possible that the second charge is to make sure everyone involved gets charged regardless even if his lawyer some how convinces the court he didn't partake in the act physically?

And feel free not to answer if you don't know. And yes I know this is probably not the case. And no I don't want him signed.

 

[HBK27]

I only noticed one poster that suggested bringing MM back - I think a vast, vast majority of fans understand there is not a shot in hell any of these guys are back in the league before the trial. The question is whether or not any go to the KHL or somewhere in Europe in the meantime, though I think that is also unlikely given court dates and many of those leagues not wanting to touch them either given the pending trial.

Also curious to see how the NHL handles qualifying offers for these guys - do they make some league-wide ruling on these players (that essentially says they can't play, but teams retain their rights) or quietly tell all the teams to not qualify them? Assuming it's most likely the latter.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Proven innocent in court doesn’t mean there was no wrong doing. For that reason you can’t sign McLeod.

 

[Normal Devil]

Is there any potential for McLeod and the others to sue to get an injunction to continue their careers while this is going on? University of Illinois basketball had a guy this past season, Terrance Shannon Jr, that was accused of rape and then was temporarily suspended by the University. He was able to get an injunction that basically forced the Illini to have to bring him back to the program. He missed about 6 games during suspension, but returned to play when the injunction was handed down by the courts. His rape case was dismissed recently and he was cleared of all charges. This Mikey thing seems much more murky and yucky, but I do think those players would possibly have some recourse until the case is completed. I'm guessing the Devils probably don't want him around, but if there was a court injunction they may not have much of a say in the matter.

 

[Darkauron]

Whooooooooooo gives a shitttttttt about Mcleod. I never want to hear his name again. Id rather talk about a dumb trade for Markstrom

 

[Goptor]

Is there any potential for McLeod and the others to sue to get an injunction to continue their careers while this is going on? University of Illinois basketball had a guy this past season, Terrance Shannon Jr, that was accused of rape and then was temporarily suspended by the University. He was able to get an injunction that basically forced the Illini to have to bring him back to the program. He missed about 6 games during suspension, but returned to play when the injunction was handed down by the courts. His rape case was dismissed recently and he was cleared of all charges. This Mikey thing seems much more murky and yucky, but I do think those players would possibly have some recourse until the case is completed. I'm guessing the Devils probably don't want him around, but if there was a court injunction they may not have much of a say in the matter.

None of them have a contract for next year so they cannot force themselves back onto a team.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Far more ink spilled today on Michael McLeod than I anticipated.

Firmly put me in the camp of who give a f***.

 

[NJDevs26]

ah so you're going to be "that guy", I see.

The chances of Mike being back on the Devils is equal to the chances of the Sun exploding tomorrow.

It's not happening.

It would be a PR nightmare to say the least.

Especially after washing their hands of him at midseason, bringing him back they’d essentially be admitting we know we can’t win without a bottom six player who was just charged with two felonies.

Proven innocent in court doesn’t mean there was no wrong doing. For that reason you can’t sign McLeod.

There’s no such thing as proven innocent in a case like this, there’s either proven guilty or reasonable doubt to return a guilty verdict.

 

[Nubmer6]

utah offers 6 for 10 and holtz, do we do it?

It would have to be a draft time decision. I'd only do it if Lindstrom was still available.

 

[NJDevs26]

No, its not the same.
Those guys are going through legal process and will, by the time they get out, have been properly punished by Canadian law.

Quenneville avoided any legal responsibility for what he did. All we know is he did something wrong but the league/Blackhawks have kept that information hidden.

Babcock didn't even do anything legally wrong. He's just a jerk and some people don't like him.


I know i'm in the minority, but with that case going to trial, I don't have any opinion on it. The people involved in the trial will have far more information on the subject than me an I trust they will find an appropriate punishment. I won't mind bringing any of them to the team because they will have already been properly punished.

It will be YEARS before this case is adjudicated, it’s already taken that long just to investigate and charge them. What value will any of them really have as NHL players in 3-4 years even if they somehow get acquitted? And for anyone who’s so worried about their careers or the potential of a false flag - HIGHLY unlikely given how long this has taken to be vetted and come out - if that does happen you know a civil suit is coming to recoup damages from lost earnings anyway.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Enough talk about McLeod.

This team could still use another top 6 winger I think...how about we bring back Kovalchuk

 

[Goptor]

It will be YEARS before this case is adjudicated, it’s already taken that long just to investigate and charge them. What value will any of them really have as NHL players in 3-4 years even if they somehow get acquitted? And for anyone who’s so worried about their careers, if that happens you know a civil suit is coming to recoup damages from lost earnings.

Someone posted when it all came out that the trial would probably be heard a year and a half after the charges were brought forward. Half of last year and next year would be it.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

No. Just no.

In today's climate, no organization wants this PR nightmare (let alone the moral qualms about employing someone who clearly was in some kind of sexually inappropriate activity). If he were to be convicted, the Devils would be seen essentially as sexual assault apologists.

Disagree here. If he were to be convicted, the Devils would be guilty of believing in the players innocence. Nothing at all wrong with that. That's called being an optimist. Right @theoptimist ? If they continued to want to employ him AFTER a guilty conviction, then yes they would be seen that way - and rightfully so.

The Trevor Bauer scandal proved why you can't just assume someone is guilty based off a single person's allegation. Again, right now he is innocent. And in my opinion the Devils (and the league) should be treating him as such. This isn't a case where it's insanely obvious who the guilty suspect is. That'd be a wildly different situation. As of now this scandal is a huge game of he said, she said. We will hopefully soon see in court what the actual truth of what happened was.

 

[NJDevs26]

LOL at people citing Bauer (or Ariza) when that was a one on one situation that wasn’t already investigated and covered up for YEARS before charges were brought. For every false flag you guys could cite there are literally hundreds of valid cases and ones that never make it to trial because victims are afraid or there’s a lack of evidence. Stop acting like the false flags are anything more than an extreme minority.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Good grief. Good to see it's 2024 and we still blindly assume any male athlete accused is unequivocally 100% guilty. Matt Araiza never happened. Trevor Bauer never happened. Hey, look, that's two prominent examples in just the past few years, yet some folks still seem incapable of thinking pragmatically. Nevermind a decade+ of even crazier cases, including infamous Duke Lacrosse.

It isn't some heroic stance to say he shouldn't play again and should be locked away forever if he raped this girl. DUHHHHH. Everyone agrees with that. However, with what's been made public about the case, idk how anyone could have a definitive opinion yet. The accusations could be true. Or, it could instead be true that this woman willingly engaged with multiple guys, then regretted it and/or made up this narrative to protect her image with parents or whoever. Or, gasp, even wanted money. So tired of people pretending this type of stuff never happens.

All reports say the stepfather informed Hockey Canada. Then, Hockey Canada informed authorities. What father in this situation would inform Hockey Canada and not the authorities??? Not saying this impacts guilt one way or the other, but I thought it was bizarre.

Now, obviously he won't play in the league until the trial is complete. Teams aren't going to risk massive reputational damage (and distraction) for a bottom 6 player that could be found guilty in the near future.

This is exactly my point. Thank you.

There have been WAY TOO MANY instances where the accuser is the one who is LYING to just instantly deem McLeod to be guilty.

Which is why in my opinion the Devils should be treating Mikey as if he is innocent. Which would mean offering him his QO and having him be part of the team this upcoming season.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I only noticed one poster that suggested bringing MM back - I think a vast, vast majority of fans understand there is not a shot in hell any of these guys are back in the league before the trial. The question is whether or not any go to the KHL or somewhere in Europe in the meantime, though I think that is also unlikely given court dates and many of those leagues not wanting to touch them either given the pending trial.

Also curious to see how the NHL handles qualifying offers for these guys - do they make some league-wide ruling on these players (that essentially says they can't play, but teams retain their rights) or quietly tell all the teams to not qualify them? Assuming it's most likely the latter.

I don't think the KHL would have any issues employing any of those players LOL.

The KHL employs Reid Boucher! That is all you really need to know about where the KHL morality lies.

It would have to be a draft time decision. I'd only do it if Lindstrom was still available.

Or Buium. Or Tij Iginla. Or Demidov.

 

[njdevils1982]

This is exactly my point. Thank you.

There have been WAY TOO MANY instances where the accuser is the one who is LYING to just instantly deem McLeod to be guilty.

Which is why in my opinion the Devils should be treating Mikey as if he is innocent. Which would mean offering him his QO and having him be part of the team this upcoming season.

 

[bossram]

Disagree here. If he were to be convicted, the Devils would be guilty of believing in the players innocence. Nothing at all wrong with that. That's called being an optimist. Right @theoptimist ? If they continued to want to employ him AFTER a guilty conviction, then yes they would be seen that way - and rightfully so.

The Trevor Bauer scandal proved why you can't just assume someone is guilty based off a single person's allegation. Again, right now he is innocent. And in my opinion the Devils (and the league) should be treating him as such. This isn't a case where it's insanely obvious who the guilty suspect is. That'd be a wildly different situation. As of now this scandal is a huge game of he said, she said. We will hopefully soon see in court what the actual truth of what happened was.

Why are they "believing" he's innocent? They can simply take the position that we don't know if he's guilty or innocent, and let the court proceedings play out. Which is what they're doing.

You keep referencing the Bauer incident as a counterpart. It's just laughable and not really relevant. Firstly, there is far more sexual assault that goes unreported than is falsely reported. Secondly, in this case, there are multiple people involved and seem to have been coordinated. There will be paper trails (texts, etc.) of this. HC also already paid a settlement to the victim in the hopes that this wouldn't come out. Kind of a big red flag there.

LOL at people citing Bauer (or Ariza) when that was a one on one situation that wasn’t already investigated and covered up for YEARS before charges were brought. For every false flag you guys could cite there are literally hundreds of valid cases and ones that never make it to trial because victims are afraid or there’s a lack of evidence. Stop acting like the false flags are anything more than an extreme minority.

Yep. It's a laughable comparison to begin with.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Good grief. Good to see it's 2024 and we still blindly assume any male athlete accused is unequivocally 100% guilty. Matt Araiza never happened. Trevor Bauer never happened. Hey, look, that's two prominent examples in just the past few years, yet some folks still seem incapable of thinking pragmatically. Nevermind a decade+ of even crazier cases, including infamous Duke Lacrosse.

It isn't some heroic stance to say he shouldn't play again and should be locked away forever if he raped this girl. DUHHHHH. Everyone agrees with that. However, with what's been made public about the case, idk how anyone could have a definitive opinion yet. The accusations could be true. Or, it could instead be true that this woman willingly engaged with multiple guys, then regretted it and/or made up this narrative to protect her image with parents or whoever. Or, gasp, even wanted money. So tired of people pretending this type of stuff never happens.

All reports say the stepfather informed Hockey Canada. Then, Hockey Canada informed authorities. What father in this situation would inform Hockey Canada and not the authorities??? Not saying this impacts guilt one way or the other, but I thought it was bizarre.

Now, obviously he won't play in the league until the trial is complete. Teams aren't going to risk massive reputational damage (and distraction) for a bottom 6 player that could be found guilty in the near future.

I just will never for the life of me understand why people feel the need to "white knight" for athletes or celebrities. Its such a weird thing to do, and quite frankly a terrible look.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Why are they "believing" he's innocent? They can simply take the position that we don't know if he's guilty or innocent, and let the court proceedings play out. Which is what they're doing.

You keep referencing the Bauer incident as a counterpart. It's just laughable and not really relevant. Firstly, there is far more sexual assault that goes unreported than is falsely reported. Secondly, in this case, there are multiple people involved and seem to have been coordinated. There will be paper trails (texts, etc.) of this. HC also already paid a settlement to the victim in the hopes that this wouldn't come out. Kind of a big red flag there.

1. I referenced the Bauer incident one time

2. It is extremely relevant and no not something to laugh at.

3. If there were texts that easily proved the guilty parties, I think it would have taken a much shorter time for the charges to be brought forward.

 

[NJDevs26]

Some of the truthers here would have criticized the Patriots for cutting Aaron Hernandez after being arrested for double murder because ‘he hasn’t had his day in court yet’. Or is it only sexual assault where you have false flags and are innocent until proven guilty?

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I just will never for the life of me understand why people feel the need to "white knight" for athletes or celebrities. Its such a weird thing to do, and quite frankly a terrible look.

He's not white knighting anything. He's simply putting into perspective how ridiculous it is that everyone is already acting as if McLeod is guilty. When there is a somewhat decent chance that he isn't.

Some of the truthers here would have criticized the Patriots for cutting Aaron Hernandez after being arrested for murder because ‘he hasn’t had his day in court yet’

If you think this case and murder are even remotely close.... Oh boy.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He's not white knighting anything. He's simply putting into perspective how ridiculous it is that everyone is already acting as if McLeod is guilty. When there is a somewhat decent chance that he isn't.



If you think this case and murder are even remotely close.... Oh boy.

yes, that is absolutely what he (and you) are doing. These guys don't need "WELL ACTUALLY" from anyone, quite frankly.

 

[NJDevs26]

Decent chance of innocence lol, this has been investigated and covered up for years. Hockey Canada had a vested interest in this not coming out and that’s a big reason why this took so long, I don’t get why THAT part of the story is conveniently ignored.

He's not white knighting anything. He's simply putting into perspective how ridiculous it is that everyone is already acting as if McLeod is guilty. When there is a somewhat decent chance that he isn't.



If you think this case and murder are even remotely close.... Oh boy.

The ‘legal process’ is exactly the same…innocent until proven guilty right? What did they have to lose by playing him and believing in his innocence until a guilty verdict? Your words

Now they probably couldn’t have actually done that if he was in physical custody and not out on bail but it’s the principle of the thing