Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Devils731]

Its not about "can Vancouver give this offer and the league accept this offer", it doesnt need to be for rules, it does happen not for offer Luke, it does happen(as cancelled offer or informational injection" - doesnt care) for effecting on negotiations between Devils and Luke.

This is nonsense.

An impossible offer that can’t and didn’t happen doesn’t affect negotiations.

Please show what nonsense website the rumor came from so it’s even more obvious how fake it is.

 

[Bcap88]

Please read again what I m talkin about. Its not about "can Vancouver give this offer and the league accept this offer", it doesnt need to be for rules, it does happen not for offer Luke, it does happen(as cancelled offer or informational injection" - doesnt care) for effecting on negotiations between Devils and Luke.
If this is an informational injection, then it could have been made by both Vancouver's side or Agent Luke's side.

This makes no sense as no one knows what is being discussed between Luke and the devils

It could very well be that Fitz has time on his side knowing that no team can offer sheet Luke. It very well could be that fitz is looking to clear space to give Luke a long term deal as opposed to a bridge

Likewise it’s all speculation that no one has any insight on

 

[thebeernerd]

Some Rangers fan on the main board was bemoaning letting Mikkola go to the Panthers where he's doing a good job now. At least they just got the one. I'll chalk that up to the Panthers knowing more than other teams, especially since Greer and Boqvist were also let go by the Bruins, but it's still annoying to see what could have been bottom six contributors do that somewhere else when they could have done it here (but, let's be real, probably wouldn't have).

 

[forceten]

What @Guadana is saying is that Luke and his agent can hear about rumors of what Vancouver's intentions are and that might influence their negotiation with New Jersey. Any agent worth his or her fee would absolutely take any information that has legs no matter what because they can say -- well rumor is VAN is interested so we'll just bridge, thanks.

If VAN actually did something - and with their GM I wouldn't doubt anything - that of course would be tampering and the Devils likely would work on getting Quinn Hughes as part of negotiating the penalty. It would be a scandal.

 

[Bcap88]

What @Guadana is saying is that Luke and his agent can hear about rumors of what Vancouver's intentions are and that might influence their negotiation with New Jersey. Any agent worth his or her fee would absolutely take any information that has legs no matter what because they can say -- well rumor is VAN is interested so we'll just bridge, thanks.

If VAN actually did something - and with their GM I wouldn't doubt anything - that of course would be tampering and the Devils likely would work on getting Quinn Hughes as part of negotiating the penalty. It would be a scandal.

And any gm worth his fee would say we intent to offer Quinn a contract in two years when he becomes a FA which would be two years earlier than the end of ur bridge deal.

Negotiating on speculation is just not a good tactic for either party

This debate is dumb when it comes from this website

Vancouver Canucks Officially Blocked by NHL from Submitting Offer Sheet to Luke Hughes

 

[Guadana]

You’re not understanding what I’m telling you.

There is no “we made an offer outside the rules that were cancelled”

There is no “such information exists”

You said “I don’t think this is against the rules for Vancouver to make an offer and make it known” shows you don’t understand the situation at all. 1, an offer can’t be made and 2, making it known would have you immediately lose a tampering case. Tampering for someone you couldn’t even sign.

If I say “McDavid was informally made an offer to join the Devils on a new contract next season” there is no new information into the world because it’s an impossible lie, the same as this fake rumor.

The information was a lie made up by a clickbait website. It’s not real so anything built upon it also is not real.

You dont understand what Im telling about. And YES i understand what you are talking about, they cant make an offer. I said it. I said it was done one way or another for other reasons. They can make information about desire to make such an offer. Im done with it. If you cant you cant.

 

[Guadana]

What @Guadana is saying is that Luke and his agent can hear about rumors of what Vancouver's intentions are and that might influence their negotiation with New Jersey. Any agent worth his or her fee would absolutely take any information that has legs no matter what because they can say -- well rumor is VAN is interested so we'll just bridge, thanks.

If VAN actually did something - and with their GM I wouldn't doubt anything - that of course would be tampering and the Devils likely would work on getting Quinn Hughes as part of negotiating the penalty. It would be a scandal.

Thanks. I dont believe I didnt translate this massage clearly. If I didnt than... f-ck it, its hard for me to tell.

 

[Devils731]

You dont understand what Im telling about. And YES i understand what you are talking about, they cant make an offer. I said it. I said it was done one way or another for other reasons. They can make information about desire to make such an offer. Im done with it. If you cant you cant.

They literally can’t make their desire to make such an offer known. That is also against the rules and the Devils would win a case against Vancouver if Vancouver did.

Besides the point there is no way to make an offer. “We would make you an offer if we could but we can’t” doesn’t affect the Devils negotiating at all.

It was just a website making up a lie.

 

[The Grinder]

While likely a lie, I certainly welcome Vancouver do some shady shit so it results in sanctions or, even better, compensation heading our way.

Rutherford’s comments also would validate the Canucks are going to try to pry Luke away from the Devils. Would be hilarious if they made an offer sheet and then realized he isn’t offer sheet eligible.

 

[Guadana]

They literally can’t make their desire to make such an offer known. That is also against the rules and the Devils would win a case against Vancouver if Vancouver did.

Besides the point there is no way to make an offer. “We would make you an offer if we could but we can’t” doesn’t affect the Devils negotiating at all.

It was just a website making up a lie.

Its not about making offer. Its not about rules, its not about the act of offer, Its about making information about desire making offer. It is effecting on negotiations. Because offers isnt a thing for this offseason but its a thing for future offseasons. Agent can use it as trump on negotiations. For asking for more now and manipulating by a bridge deal and the size of the future offer sheet. For making it real this doesnt belong to be in the borders of rules. When it is effecting the negotiations and making higher the salary of Luke or even pushing him to sign bridge deal, it will making the situation harder for Devils in the next two years with cap space.

I believe you can understand it. Please do it. Mcdavid example isnt working because there are no need for such an offer, everybody knows everybody will pay as much as he asks if he want it. Luke Hughes can be in the pick between long term with Faberesque cap and bridge. There are no info about how much different teams can offer after bridge deal - 9 mil or 11+ mil. its a different information and different amount of money for today negotiations. This type of info injection will effect on the negotiations. And I dont know who could it make - Vancouver side or Agent of Luke side. But I cant pencil out both sides because in this case it has weight.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Its not about making offer. Its not about rules, its not about the act of offer, Its about making information about desire making offer. It is effecting on negotiations. Because offers isnt a thing for this offseason but its a thing for future offseasons. Agent can use it as trump on negotiations. For asking for more now and manipulating by a bridge deal and the size of the future offer sheet. For making it real this doesnt belong to be in the borders of rules. When it is effecting the negotiations and making higher the salary of Luke or even pushing him to sign bridge deal, it will making the situation harder for Devils in the next two years with cap space.

I believe you can understand it. Please do it. Mcdavid example isnt working because there are no need for such an offer, everybody knows everybody will pay as much as he asks if he want it. Luke Hughes can be in the pick between long term with Faberesque cap and bridge. There are no info about how much different teams can offer after bridge deal - 9 mil or 11+ mil. its a different information and different amount of money for today negotiations. This type of info injection will effect on the negotiations. And I dont know who could it make - Vancouver side or Agent of Luke side. But I cant pencil out both sides because in this case it has weight.

I think most people understand what you're saying, but the fact is. The can't make an offer, they can't make it known they want to make an offer (this is tampering)

Quite simply, Vancouver isn't allowed to discuss a player that is on another team in any fashion, sneakily or publicly.

 

[devilsblood]

And any gm worth his fee would say we intent to offer Quinn a contract in two years when he becomes a FA which would be two years earlier than the end of ur bridge deal.

Negotiating on speculation is just not a good tactic for either party

This debate is dumb when it comes from this website

Vancouver Canucks Officially Blocked by NHL from Submitting Offer Sheet to Luke Hughes

What I want to know is: why is no one biting on the Luke for Tom Willander rumor from that article?

Edit: Though it should be noted that article mentions, in response to fans wonderings, that Van can not offer sheet Luke.

 

[devilsblood]

Quite simply, Vancouver isn't allowed to discuss a player that is on another team in any fashion, sneakily or publicly.

But what if they do it very very sneakily?

 

[HugeInTheShire]

But what if they do it very very sneakily?

Hadn't thought of that, if they increase the sneak level maybe they'll be allowed.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

Any rumour of Vancouver offering or being interested in Luke is just click bait bullshit. Canadian media loves to spin stories for fans to eat up, and Canucks media will be working overtime to try and spin the situation as Hughes bros going to Vancouver. Not worth a second thought and getting sucked into their drummed up news bubble.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Based on his trade deadline targets like Coyle and Schenn, it definitely feels as if he’s looking to get a 2C with size and utility that can play center for Hughes or run a third line.

Watching the Panthers steamroll the east, it’s hard to avoid thinking that size is super important in order to be competitive at the moment. And this in our case for a club who’s two best forwards are Hughes and Bratt.

I totally disagree with the criticism of Fitz that he made a mistake by restructuring towards bigger and heavier players over the last two years. We need another center and/or left wing along those parameters.

 

[My3Sons]

I once played golf with an NFL general manager. While we were playing he received a phone call from an agent. The agent tried to entice the GM to make a pitch for a good player who was in the last year of his contract with a rival. They went back and forth and at one point the GM said that he'd be interested if the player reached free agency. After they got off I asked the GM if that sort of thing happened regularly and he said it did. He agreed the agents were behind the tampering which I explicitly raised with him. Do I think it's possible that Vancouver was approached by Luke's agent to see what they think he'd be worth? Yes, that could happen. Luke and Quinn share the same agent so a discussion with Vancouver is not surprising. Is that tampering? It depends upon what Vancouver's response was. If the discussion was just about whether Vancouver could make an offer and Vancouver checked with the league who said no and that's as far as it went I doubt that's enough to be tampering.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Hadn't thought of that, if they increase the sneak level maybe they'll be allowed.

I think the key thing is "allowed". I don't think anyone is claiming they are allowed to make an offer. I don't think anyone is claiming they are allowed to make their desire to make an offer known. This is more about letting random information purposely leak. If done correctly it's virtually impossible to prove it was purposely or maliciously done. Especially with how incompetent the NHL is.

All that said, I tend to agree the article is garbage click bait. Ultimately I agree with and see the validity in both arguments being made here, and both arguments can be correct at the same time.

 

[Bcap88]

I once played golf with an NFL general manager. While we were playing he received a phone call from an agent. The agent tried to entice the GM to make a pitch for a good player who was in the last year of his contract with a rival. They went back and forth and at one point the GM said that he'd be interested if the player reached free agency. After they got off I asked the GM if that sort of thing happened regularly and he said it did. He agreed the agents were behind the tampering which I explicitly raised with him. Do I think it's possible that Vancouver was approached by Luke's agent to see what they think he'd be worth? Yes, that could happen. Luke and Quinn share the same agent so a discussion with Vancouver is not surprising. Is that tampering? It depends upon what Vancouver's response was. If the discussion was just about whether Vancouver could make an offer and Vancouver checked with the league who said no and that's as far as it went I doubt that's enough to be tampering.

I think you see this more with Ufa’s than rfa’s

UFA the player is mostly gone

RFA the team still has years of control and I don’t think a gm is going to risk a franchise altering decision I.E. Scott Steven’s type compensation

 

[My3Sons]

I think you see this more with Ufa’s than rfa’s

UFA the player is mostly gone

RFA the team still has years of control and I don’t think a gm is going to risk a franchise altering decision I.E. Scott Steven’s type compensation

Probably not, but for those pounding the table that there is simply no universe where this could happen, I'm saying it can in a roundabout way as I literally saw it happen. I don't doubt Vancouver is desperate to keep Quinn and if it means skirting the line to let Jack and Luke know they'g be paid insanely by the Canucks if it ever came to that I wouldn't be surprised if that happens someway somehow. Again, it's the same agent so chatting with the agent probably happens plenty. What they discuss in the hypothetical sense probably gets pretty close to tampering.

 

[MadDevil]

Somebody is looking for clicks...

 

[devilsblood]

If it's the article above which is the source of this discussion, this is what it says:

"But, many fans have wondered why the Canucks don't just offer sheet Luke Hughes as he is a pending restricted free agent (RFA).

That fact of the matter is that the Canucks, along with every other NHL team are blocked from offer sheeting him, among other RFA's under section NHL's Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA)."

The article is merely shooting down fan speculation. It does not say Van is putting out sneaky feely's.

 

[devilsblood]

Somebody is looking for clicks...

pass

 

[thebeernerd]

Like Marchy, don't want that contract. Let him be Nashville's anchor.

 

[Patrik26]

Somebody is looking for clicks...