Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[devilsblood]

Listen I would love Quinn here as much as the next guy but I truly believe we're better off waiting until next year or doing the free agent route with him. Trading for him now will destroy our depth & leave us handcuffed for the year. 3c and top 6 winger is a priority. Quinn isn't that. Yeah we're getting the superior player but we need the depth. I would do a trade but if we have to do a trade where we give up a 1st, Nemec, Mercer, Silayev or Casey it's honestly a no for me. It's not because Quinn isn't worth it, it's because I know I can get him for free if patient enough. Why empty out your entire depth for something you can get for free with a little patience. Also besides all of this, we don't even need a defenseman right now. We have far bigger issues & I would rather focus on that. Let's say we trade for Quinn, now what? We're completely cap strapped & now have nothing to trade for the positions we actually need. How do you guys plan on getting a 3C? How do you plan on getting top 6 wingers? Let's be realistic here. If Quinn wasn't a Hughes brother we wouldn't be having this conversation. From a team perspective it makes 0 sense to trade for him. There's 0 world where we add Quinn, a 3rd line center and wingers in the same off season. It's literally impossible. So take your pick out of these 2 routes. 1) Pick Quinn and be guaranteed to be bounced again in the playoffs because we still have giant gaping holes throughout the forward corps or 2) Fill out the holes we need, land a 3c, get a scoring winger (while keeping our depth) and then get Quinn for free or after the roster is more balanced.

Hamilton Mercer Silayev Casey 1st rnd

For

Hughes-Garland.

Cap neutral. Mercer's spot is filled by Garland. Only hit to the depth chart is RHD. Find a cheap older pk'r to hold the spot until Kova is back.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

To get a player like bennett you need to pay up. Banking on fitz pulling off an offer sheet is folly. Not confident the needed changes will be made

I understand that Bennett will command a big payday but NJ shouldn't be the team to hand it out. Considering he isn't a great scorer, I wouldn't want to hand him a massive contract. I'm by no means banking on an offer sheet, I just think it's the best option to attempt to steal a player rather than overpay for an UFA.
I have zero confidence Fitz will be able to address the needs of this team and will likely end up keeping Hamilton, Palat and Haula. Also wouldn't be shocked to see both Dowling and Bastian come back.

 

[devilsblood]

I understand that Bennett will command a big payday but NJ shouldn't be the team to hand it out. Considering he isn't a great scorer, I wouldn't want to hand him a massive contract. I'm by no means banking on an offer sheet, I just think it's the best option to attempt to steal a player rather than overpay for an UFA.
I have zero confidence Fitz will be able to address the needs of this team and will likely end up keeping Hamilton, Palat and Haula. Also wouldn't be shocked to see both Dowling and Bastian come back.

Also not a good faceoff guy, nor a guy used a whole lot defensively by Florida (probably because he's not a good faceoff guy)

He is physical, he does get a lot of sog's, but he's not quite the fit that one might think.

 

[Guadana]

Quinn has averaged 25 mpg over the past 4 seasons.

Luke is already at 21 mpg and that likely goes up.

There just isn't many minutes left for a 3rd pair lhd if Quinn was to be brought in. If we were to acquire Quinn, whether by trade or FA, I think Silayev is gone. Just too much value to be playing 3rd pair behind those 2 guys.

But waiting to sign Quinn, would allow us to trade Silayev for help else where.

Also don't see the point of keeping Casey around if Quinn is pp1, and either Luke or Nemec is pp2.

There are a lot of reasons to save Silayev. You can check Hedman-McDonagh-Sergachyov minutes in their time together.

 

[devilsblood]

There are a lot of reasons to save Silayev. You can check Hedman-McDonagh-Sergachyov minutes in their time together.

In the 19-20 season no RHD played over 19 mpg for Tampa.

In 20-21 only one did, Savard, and that was for all of 14 games. After Savard was acquired Luke Schnenn played all of 10 mpg. I guess Casey could be the Schenn in that scenario.

In 21-22 only one rhd played more then 16:30 per game. That was Cernak who played all of 19:09 per game, 2:50 of which were PK.

So yeah you can overload on one side, and have them eat the minutes of the other side, but that would not be the scenario if Nemec and Pesce are on the right side. And this would pretty much mean Casey is barely an NHL player.

 

[My3Sons]

There are a lot of reasons to save Silayev. You can check Hedman-McDonagh-Sergachyov minutes in their time together.

If you ran a left side of Luke and Quinn you need a defensive workhorse behind them. Silayev would seem to fit that role perfectly.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Also not a good faceoff guy, nor a guy used a whole lot defensively by Florida (probably because he's not a good faceoff guy)

He is physical, he does get a lot of sog's, but he's not quite the fit that one might think.

I would think NJ would use him as a winger and try to trade for a 3C.

 

[devilsblood]

I would think NJ would use him as a winger and try to trade for a 3C.

I'm not seeing it.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I'm not seeing it.

Unless he's willing to sign a Palat like deal, I hope to not see it as well.

 

[devilsblood]

Unless he's willing to sign a Palat like deal, I hope to not see it as well.

Who knows what he will get, but the 8x8 talk sounds crazy to me. Palat deal, or maybe 6x6, sounds right. No way am I giving him 8 years.

 

[billingtons ghost]

It's hard to say that Quinn makes us a Stanley Cup winner, so it makes more sense to just wait to sign him later as a UFA, or at least wait until Vancouver brass is panicking that they'll lose him for nothing. If he really really really wants to play with his brothers there could be a Rantanen scenario which would probably be a cheaper ask.

Edit: and Bennett is exactly what this team needs but but at open market prices

 

[theoptimist]

Listen I would love Quinn here as much as the next guy but I truly believe we're better off waiting until next year or doing the free agent route with him. Trading for him now will destroy our depth & leave us handcuffed for the year. 3c and top 6 winger is a priority. Quinn isn't that. Yeah we're getting the superior player but we need the depth. I would do a trade but if we have to do a trade where we give up a 1st, Nemec, Mercer, Silayev or Casey it's honestly a no for me. It's not because Quinn isn't worth it, it's because I know I can get him for free if patient enough. Why empty out your entire depth for something you can get for free with a little patience. Also besides all of this, we don't even need a defenseman right now. We have far bigger issues & I would rather focus on that. Let's say we trade for Quinn, now what? We're completely cap strapped & now have nothing to trade for the positions we actually need. How do you guys plan on getting a 3C? How do you plan on getting top 6 wingers? Let's be realistic here. If Quinn wasn't a Hughes brother we wouldn't be having this conversation. From a team perspective it makes 0 sense to trade for him. There's 0 world where we add Quinn, a 3rd line center and wingers in the same off season. It's literally impossible. So take your pick out of these 2 routes. 1) Pick Quinn and be guaranteed to be bounced again in the playoffs because we still have giant gaping holes throughout the forward corps or 2) Fill out the holes we need, land a 3c, get a scoring winger (while keeping our depth) and then get Quinn for free or after the roster is more balanced.

Cheaper for us to get Quinn now than next year

 

[JrFischer54]

so whats the boards complaints on trying to bring in duchene

 

[theoptimist]

Unless he's willing to sign a Palat like deal, I hope to not see it as well.

Sam Bennett will sign the Chandler Stephenson deal. He’ll take less for a 6th year. Then, this board will do mental gymnastics when they realize UFA 3Cs are almost universally overpaid. The point is to pay now and not worry about what the cap will be in Year 4 of the deal. People mistake that players need contracts to play. They do not have to finish the entire deal with the team. The 2nd round pick in Year 5 or Year 6 to offload should not matter if you are a serious contender.

 

[Devils731]

Cheaper for us to get Quinn now than next year

Disagree.

Right now other teams would be willing to be 2 year rental prices for Quinn.

Next year they’ll only be willing to pay 1 year rental prices for Quinn.

The return Vancouver is going to get for Quinn only goes down over time until, assuming he wants to play with he brothers, they eventually get nothing for Quinn leaving.

 

[Brodeur]

so whats the boards complaints on trying to bring in duchene

‘If I don’t get brought up like that, I’m probably not here’: How country music helped lead Matt Duchene to Nashville

Matt Duchene's love of country music, which dates to his upbringing in Haliburton, Ontario, has made Nashville feel like home.

www.nytimes.com

Dallas Stars’ Matt Duchene scores twice, performs show at Tootsies

Duchene played four seasons in Nashville.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

How country music helped Matt Duchene find the perfect fit in Dallas

Stars newcomer Matt Duchene has made an immediate impact in his first season in Dallas. Country music has helped him bond with his teammates and transition to...

www.dallasnews.com

It'd probably be the other way around, I'm not sure we'd necessarily be on his radar. Seemed like his second career in country music led him to sign in Nashville / get bought out by Nashville as they thought he was getting distracted. Music appears to be a factor with him subsequently signing with Dallas. So we'll see if Duchene chooses to leave the region.

From a hockey perspective, Duchene would be great fit depending on the contract.

 

[theoptimist]

Disagree.

Right now other teams would be willing to be 2 year rental prices for Quinn.

Next year they’ll only be willing to pay 1 year rental prices for Quinn.

The return Vancouver is going to get for Quinn only goes down over time until, assuming he wants to play with he brothers, they eventually get nothing for Quinn leaving.

Other teams do not have the assets and do not have core players solidified like we do (Jack, Nico, Bratt, Timo, Luke). It’d be a Canucks-like team trading with the Canucks which I think is very risky for the Canuck-like team. Improbable.

Additionally, we can’t afford him next year and maybe more hesitant to trade our players if all players hit their Player Arch (Nemec improving, Mercer being better etc.) If no Quinn this summer, we’ll have traded assets for a 3C by next summer (or added UFAs). More budget constraints for us next summer than this summer. That’s my rationale.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Sam Bennett will sign the Chandler Stephenson deal. He’ll take less for a 6th year. Then, this board will do mental gymnastics when they realize UFA 3Cs are almost universally overpaid. The point is to pay now and not worry about what the cap will be in Year 4 of the deal. People mistake that players need contracts to play. They do not have to finish the entire deal with the team. The 2nd round pick in Year 5 or Year 6 to offload should not matter if you are a serious contender.

Sure they can build the team with no regard for the future, it likely ends up in NJ having to buy out years of his deal because he's not good but still has 2-3 years left on his deal and nobody is lining up to do NJ any favors.

I think your mistake is thinking he won't have trade protection in those last couple years and assuming someone on his list will be willing to take him.

Just look at Palat and Haula, they're both dead weight that Fitz is unlikely to be able to unload. Maybe some team might take Haula if a 2nd is attached but nobody is taking Palat without dumping someone else on NJ. He'll likely have to be bought out next offseason.

Hell he'd likely struggle to be able to move Hamilton and he's still good enough to run a PP and be a contributor to any team.

 

[Devils731]

Other teams do not have the assets and do not have core players solidified like we do (Jack, Nico, Bratt, Timo, Luke). It’d be a Canucks-like team trading with the Canucks which I think is very risky for the Canuck-like team. Improbable.

Additionally, we can’t afford him next year and maybe more hesitant to trade our players if all players hit their Player Arch (Nemec improving, Mercer being better etc.) If no Quinn this summer, we’ll have traded assets for a 3C by next summer (or added UFAs). More budget constraints for us next summer than this summer. That’s my rationale.

You’ve already made it too complicated.

It’s as simple as “How long do you want one of the best players in the league on your team with a contract where he is vastly underpaid? Do you want 1 or 2 years?”

If the answer is 2, and it is, then it’s more expensive to trade for him now than next year.

Other teams would be knocking down Vancouver’s door for 2 years of Quinn; it’s not the Devils or nobody for these 2 years if Vancouver decides they should move him.

 

[MasterofGrond]

I think you want to get Quinn in the door and playing games for the team asap if your eventual goal is getting him to happily sign a marginally below market deal to play with his brothers for the rest of his career

You know I hate "overpaying" in trades needlessly, but if you have the chance to bring truly elite assets in, find a way. We are in a distinctly unique position that provides extra incentive to do get a deal done. He's one of the 10 best players in the league and he's 25 years old. Dunno what the market is going to look like next offseason or, especially, for UFA.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Yeah, Duchene loves the US South and mainly due to his love for country music. I'd be wanting him in NJ for a while but lifestyle he'd never pick us and that's fine.

I'm surprised Carolina has never made a legit pitch to him with having god awful centers offensively besides Aho

 

[JrFischer54]

I think you want to get Quinn in the door and playing games for the team asap if your eventual goal is getting him to happily sign a marginally below market deal to play with his brothers for the rest of his career

You know I hate "overpaying" in trades needlessly, but if you have the chance to bring truly elite assets in, find a way. We are in a distinctly unique position that provides extra incentive to do get a deal done. He's one of the 10 best players in the league and he's 25 years old. Dunno what the market is going to look like next offseason or, especially, for UFA.

more importantly i dont want the canucks running him into the ground having him play 30mins a night knowing they aren't going to have to worry about his next contract. just get the guy here already thats what i say

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Sam Bennett will sign the Chandler Stephenson deal. He’ll take less for a 6th year. Then, this board will do mental gymnastics when they realize UFA 3Cs are almost universally overpaid. The point is to pay now and not worry about what the cap will be in Year 4 of the deal. People mistake that players need contracts to play. They do not have to finish the entire deal with the team. The 2nd round pick in Year 5 or Year 6 to offload should not matter if you are a serious contender.

Having to use picks to jettison contracts you KNOW are going to be bad is an absolutely moronic piece of business.

 

[Triumph]

I think you want to get Quinn in the door and playing games for the team asap if your eventual goal is getting him to happily sign a marginally below market deal to play with his brothers for the rest of his career

You know I hate "overpaying" in trades needlessly, but if you have the chance to bring truly elite assets in, find a way. We are in a distinctly unique position that provides extra incentive to do get a deal done. He's one of the 10 best players in the league and he's 25 years old. Dunno what the market is going to look like next offseason or, especially, for UFA.

Quinn Hughes doesn't represent a need, at all. Yes, he's an incredible player, yes he will make the team better, but his coming here would create a lot of dumb issues - is the top power play the Hughes brothers and two other players? Is Luke okay with playing PP2 for the rest of his career? How does this affect any sort of power dynamics on the team moving forward, knowing that the Devils basically have 1/3rd of their cap tied up in 3 players who have aligned incentives more than any other group of 3 players?

I don't think people talking about trading guys like Nemec and Silayev realize that once those guys are gone, that is it. The Devils would be basically done having high-value assets outside of the NHL and this is the team they are rolling with; they're basically in Tampa Bay mode from that point forward. I don't think that's at all a good idea, especially not when Hughes might come here for free in 2 seasons.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Hamilton Mercer Silayev Casey 1st rnd

For

Hughes-Garland.

Cap neutral. Mercer's spot is filled by Garland. Only hit to the depth chart is RHD. Find a cheap older pk'r to hold the spot until Kova is back.

Won't comment on the value of the deal but we give up a ton of depth on defense here. Yes you could sign depth pieces in free agency but it's not the same. And I'm of the mindset that you need good depth pieces on ELC's that can slot in the lineup with low cap hits. Whether it's due to injury or roster turnover, having that cheap depth is invaluable and we'd lose a ton of that here.