Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Not sure if this is the right spot to do but Happy Mother's Day to all your guys moms.

My condolences to who anyone's lost their mom/they're going through sickness that they get through it. I didn't wanna make a new thread for it but if it deserves its own thread, the mods can help

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Comparing him to Chychrun who just got 9x8 (as a lefty)

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One is 4 years older than the other one and just had a heater shooting year. This comp would make more sense if Hamliton was UFA after his 22-23.

 

[NJDfan86]

It’s too bad that Bo Horvat’s contract is so abysmal because he would would be a nice short term fit.

(Sorry, just looked at it so had to post how terrible it is).

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

It’s too bad that Bo Horvat’s contract is so abysmal because he would would be a nice short term fit.

(Sorry, just looked at it so had to post how terrible it is).

Kinda wanted him before they went the Timo route in 22/23. Would've had the Haula/Jack pairing on roids

 

[dgibb10]

You’re free to sort through 2026-2027 UFAs to see what players with the kind of term you want are available. Just a short list of players with modest term: McCann, Danault, Coleman, O’Reilly, Crouse, Colton, Schmaltz, Pageau, Garland, Backlund, Marchment, Sissons, Lizotte, Sherwood. With a bit more term: Rakell, Schenn, Hoglander.

Anyone with a semi-functioning brain can understand that having 9 million dollars freed up changes the way you can construct the roster. It would also be nice to have another pick that can be flipped for a player. And again, for the 80th time, RHD is log jammed. Nemec is playing, and I don’t want any righty righty pairings. That alone is enough for me, but there are many other reasons to deal him.

Is the last part of the post serious? Really? You can’t see why the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER ON THE ROSTER at a position we’re loaded in is a unique circumstance? We wouldn’t be “selling low” on him either. There is very likely a new bottom that can be tested if he suffers another injury or gets even worse defensively. We wouldn’t even be able to trade him if we wanted to in that case. It’s possible there aren’t many takers as it stands.

All of the Cs you listed are guys I have suggested and illustrated exactly how they can already be brought in without moving Hamilton.

So that leaves McCann, Garland, Coleman, Crouse (who btw had less points this past year as Haula), Marchment, Rakell.

If you want a 5-6 mill winger for the top 9 that badly (I think it's frankly stupid for reasons I have illustrated again and again), simply move Palat out for it.

Or just wait and buy that caliber of guy when they are available as rentals every year IF you need to (Gritysuk doesn't work out)

 

[dgibb10]

You’re free to sort through 2026-2027 UFAs to see what players with the kind of term you want are available. Just a short list of players with modest term: McCann, Danault, Coleman, O’Reilly, Crouse, Colton, Schmaltz, Pageau, Garland, Backlund, Marchment, Sissons, Lizotte, Sherwood. With a bit more term: Rakell, Schenn, Hoglander.

Anyone with a semi-functioning brain can understand that having 9 million dollars freed up changes the way you can construct the roster. It would also be nice to have another pick that can be flipped for a player. And again, for the 80th time, RHD is log jammed. Nemec is playing, and I don’t want any righty righty pairings. That alone is enough for me, but there are many other reasons to deal him.

Is the last part of the post serious? Really? You can’t see why the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER ON THE ROSTER at a position we’re loaded in is a unique circumstance? We wouldn’t be “selling low” on him either. There is very likely a new bottom that can be tested if he suffers another injury or gets even worse defensively. We wouldn’t even be able to trade him if we wanted to in that case. It’s possible there aren’t many takers as it stands.

You ship out Hamilton and the position immediately stops being loaded, it starts becoming a major question mark instead

You go into next year with Pesce Nemec and Casey on the right side to start. This is the opposite of loaded.

There is 0 reason to rush Casey out of the AHL next year.

 

[dgibb10]

One is 4 years older than the other one and just had a heater shooting year. This comp would make more sense if Hamliton was UFA after his 22-23.

A guy producing at a similar level to Hamilton (although a level down tbh) just got 9x8 for his offensive capabilities despite playing the less valuable hand.. Hamilton is yes older, but only 3 years of term carries much less risk.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You ship out Hamilton and the position immediately stops being loaded, it starts becoming a major question mark instead

You go into next year with Pesce Nemec and Casey on the right side to start. This is the opposite of loaded.

There is 0 reason to rush Casey out of the AHL next year.

That would obviously not be the case. Fitz would add another D, possibly take someone back in a Hamilton deal. Or bring back Dumoulin. Fitz has shown he can build solid defenses.

 

[Billdo]

ask him if he wants to go play with Zacha real nicely.

He'd be a great 3C here

 

[Forge]

One is 4 years older than the other one and just had a heater shooting year. This comp would make more sense if Hamliton was UFA after his 22-23.

For sure.

I think the broader point is that the remaining contract for Dougie, 9 x 3, isn't some sort of crazy albatross or disaster contract. Not easy for just any team to fit, of course, which is why the value is going to be low in any return, but I don't think it's a nightmare for a team to acquire it. The injuries are a concern, but I don't know that teams are going to be put off by the level of play.

 

[dgibb10]

That would obviously not be the case. Fitz would add another D, possibly take someone back in a Hamilton deal. Or bring back Dumoulin. Fitz has shown he can build solid defenses.

So now we're spending money on another dman lmao.

Yeah, fitz has shown he can build solid defenses. All of them have involved Dougie Hamilton.

If the dcore was "loaded" without dougie we wouldn't need to bring back Dumo in this scenario (who btw isn't gonna just be some 1 year cheap deal. You're looking at a deal similar to Dillon, with trade protections)

 

[Forge]

It's not so much should we move on from Dougie (ABSOLUTELY 100% YES). Buuuuttttttttttt if Kovy is down for a while, will he come back by Thanksgiving or Jan-Feb next year? It all hinges on if the team is willing to run with Pesce, Nemec and Casey, pretty sketchy. If Kovy was healthy it's a no brainer, off to the glue factory and the money can be spent elsewhere.

I don't think they'd run Nemec / Casey.

I think they'd more likely run Nemec, keep Casey in Utica and call up if necessary, and then sign or trade for a guy to to play the third pair RHD role. If it's a free agent, maybe someone like Hamonic or Rutta. Or maybe they have someone they like similar to Kovacevic that they can acquire in a trade. Not sure who that would be.

 

[dgibb10]

For sure.

I think the broader point is that the remaining contract for Dougie, 9 x 3, isn't some sort of crazy albatross or disaster contract. Not easy for just any team to fit, of course, which is why the value is going to be low in any return, but I don't think it's a nightmare for a team to acquire it. The injuries are a concern, but I don't know that teams are going to be put off by the level of play.

I'd be looking at the JT Miller and Seth Jones deals as comparables for the price it would take tbh.

Then you're actually getting real value for the significant value you lose. This idea that you can do more with the cap space than Hamilton I expect will be shattered on July 1st once people see some of the contracts that get handed out (hopefully not by us).

Stars in general I think are underrated as f*** now value wise.

The idea that teams are better with a couple of 5 mill middle 6 guys over a legit star because the stars production vs salary doesn't quite line up with the guys who signed first time RFA deals at 22 years old is wild to me

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

So now we're spending money on another dman lmao.

Yeah, fitz has shown he can build solid defenses. All of them have involved Dougie Hamilton.

If the dcore was "loaded" without dougie we wouldn't need to bring back Dumo in this scenario (who btw isn't gonna just be some 1 year cheap deal. You're looking at a deal similar to Dillon, with trade protections)

Yes, you spend money and picks to add players to your roster. Why do you think trading Dougie Hamilton means spending zero dollars on another dman? Something like the Colin Miller or Kovacevic trade. Or signing some random in free agency. You know, the kind of thing a smart GM does, not spend 9 million dollars on a 3rd pairing PP specialist when we already have a PP QB.

 

[Forge]

I'd be looking at the JT Miller and Seth Jones deals as comparables for the price it would take tbh.

Then you're actually getting real value for the significant value you lose. This idea that you can do more with the cap space than Hamilton I expect will be shattered on July 1st once people see some of the contracts that get handed out (hopefully not by us)

I don't think that you can move Dougie and get better players.

I'm not so sure you can't move dougie and get a better, more well rounded team.

But really depends on how Fitz used the assets. There are avenues where they could get better and avenues where they get worse. It's "Schrodinger's Dougie trade".

My biggest concern would be where the team is generating offense on the blue line. My expectation is that Luke does take another step forward, but that step forward isn't going to cover Dougie's loss. But I'm also not going to be stunned at all if they trade Dougie and I will totally understand the thinking behind it.

 

[Guttersniped]

Getting 1 guy (a quality 3C) is viable.

Trying to shake around to move around cap and completely rehaul the bottom 6 is not

A 3C is a very tough get actually, a lot of teams are looking for that.

Bargain six wingers are always kicking around, smart GMs pick those up all the time.

 

[dgibb10]

Yes, you spend money and picks to add players to your roster. Why do you think trading Dougie Hamilton means spending zero dollars on another dman? Something like the Colin Miller or Kovacevic trade. Or signing some random in free agency. You know, the kind of thing a smart GM does, not spend 9 million dollars on a 3rd pairing PP specialist when we already have a PP QB.

Why are you pretending we're talking about someone like Erik Gustafsson here.

He was 3rd on our team among dmen in TOI/game btw.

Dougie Hamilton led our team in 5v5 goal differential by a wide margin. I don't particularly care if he gets 1 less shift per game 5v5 than Pesce/Kovy. Put him back with Siegs if that's what's gonna make you bitch less about "3rd pairing"

Dougie Hamilton plays as much ice time as Nico Hischier

 

[dgibb10]

A 3C is a very tough get actually, a lot of teams are looking for that.

Bargain six wingers are always kicking around, smart GMs pick those up all the time.

I agree. Which is why NJD needs to put all their focus onto the singular, harder piece to get. Find the 3C, buy retention on him, lock it in.

The extra wingers can be dealt with at the deadline if they need to be dealt with at all. Guys like Gritysuk and Lenni need opportunities to get real offensive roles if they want to bloom and we want to avoid having to constantly spend on veterans for these roles. Trying to develop an offensive winger is not the same as a dman (who even on a bottom pairing tends to get 15-16 minutes a night or so in a variety of scenarios).

 

[dgibb10]

I don't think that you can move Dougie and get better players.

I'm not so sure you can't move dougie and get a better, more well rounded team.

But really depends on how Fitz used the assets. There are avenues where they could get better and avenues where they get worse. It's "Schrodinger's Dougie trade".

My biggest concern would be where the team is generating offense on the blue line. My expectation is that Luke does take another step forward, but that step forward isn't going to cover Dougie's loss. But I'm also not going to be stunned at all if they trade Dougie and I will totally understand the thinking behind it.

Oh I agree.

Trading dougie for quality assets and using those assets can make sense (although with Kovacevic out heading into next season that becomes a lot more risky).

The idea however among some here is that we should just be shipping dougie out like he's Trouba for the rags.

 

[Guttersniped]

Going through my photos and found this:

(Don’t know this guy, just asked for a photo of his Frankenstein jersey.)

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Why are you pretending we're talking about someone like Erik Gustafsson here.

He was 3rd on our team among dmen in TOI/game btw.

Dougie Hamilton led our team in 5v5 goal differential by a wide margin. I don't particularly care if he gets 1 less shift per game 5v5 than Pesce/Kovy. Put him back with Siegs if that's what's gonna make you bitch less about "3rd pairing"

Dougie Hamilton plays as much ice time as Nico Hischier

Nemec sits next year then. We’re going to play Luke with Pesce and reunite the best shutdown pairing in the league. That leaves the 13 million dollar 3rd pairing. Some plan.

 

[dgibb10]

Nemec sits next year then. We’re going to play Luke with Pesce and reunite the best shutdown pairing in the league. That leaves the 13 million dollar 3rd pairing. Some plan.

Did you stop watching devils hockey after december?

Luke and Pesce were frankly a disaster the second half of the year. Kovy also had a pretty significant drop off. Dougie meanwhile was the only one winning his minutes

It's like you made these takes about the dcore half a year ago and haven't bothered to pay attention since.

The dmen other than dougie+siegs had a TON to do with the teams failures in the second half.

tell you what, we can get rid of the 13 mill 3rd pairing problem

Siegs-Hamilton: 12.5 mill first pairing
Luke-Kovy: 12 mill 2nd pairing
Pesce-Nemec: 6.5 mill 3rd pairing.

Problem solved

You're trying to strawman based on loosley defined "pairings" and both using Brenden Dillon as the ultimate strawman, a guy who both CANNOT be taken out of the lineup under any circumstances and a guy who you use HIS cap hit to make dougie seem more expensive than he is.

 

[JrFischer54]

Mercer, Nemec (or Casey), plus a future 1st-rounder.

(but that's just me)

Nemec stays. Mercer Casey or that Russian kid they just drafted and a first. Longer it goes the less is offered. Canucks ain’t winning the west in the next two years tank for Makenna trade off Mercer for more pieces

 

[dzubrus8]

It's more the "eh, let's just stick Bastian there" that worries me. I am not sure he's serviceable there anymore - 4th liners can drop off pretty young. I agree, Cotter and Glass are excellent for 4LW/4C.

This to me feels more like a trade deadline consideration. Trade a 3rd/4th for a reliable bottom 6 winger or trade a 1st/2nd for a middle six player who pushes an existing middle 6er (Palat or Haula possibly) to 4th line. Not an excuse for Fitz to sit on his hands but many of these crazy deep teams (Dallas, Vegas in past years) arrive there at the deadline, not in October

 

[dgibb10]

It's more the "eh, let's just stick Bastian there" that worries me. I am not sure he's serviceable there anymore - 4th liners can drop off pretty young. I agree, Cotter and Glass are excellent for 4LW/4C.

Also, I'd like to note bastian is just an example because I, and basically everyone else, are not familiar with all of the random 11th-12th forwards and tweeners around the league you could stick into that role.

NHL scouting departments however, are likely much more familiar and will have guys in mind that they like and fit the way we want to play.