Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[dgibb10]

In terms of best courses of action for finding cap space:

Buying retention on specific targets you like to make them fit your price range>Dumping non lineup players/true dead space (eg Dillon potentially or if you believe haula has fallen off that much)>Dumping overpaid but still effective players>Dumping legit key pieces on your team>Buyouts.

The retention in my opinion is clearly best because A) it is clearly very undervalued compared to the cost of dumping salary right now, and B) it allows YOU to control the cap of your acquisitions, rather than letting the cap control who you can and can't acquire.

Need a starting goalie but they're 6 mill in UFA and you still need the rest of the team and want to play in UFA? Buy retention on markstrom
Need a top 4D but stuck in cap hell because your core 4 makes 40 million dollars. Buy retention on McCabe, or Carlo?
Need a legit dman but they all make way too much for your structure? Buy retention on Brent Burns
Need a 2C but don't have the space for one at market value? Buy retention on Tomas Hertl
Need a backup goalie? buy retention on Allen.
Need a dman to partner with bouchard but they don't quite fit? buy retention on Ekholm

 

[forceten]

Honestly, some of our fans in here will get mad and say we’re giving up too much because why give up so much for a guy that already wants to come here, and a GM with no leverage, because he’s already publicly run his mouth and blah blah blah.

But realistically, a first round pick, one of Casey/Nemec, Hamilton (for salary reasons) and maybe Mercer if they really want, but I think including Mercer may be too rich for the reasons other people will say including Nemec is too rich.

A first, and A prospect from Casey OR Nemec OR Silayev, and Hamilton for salary reasons is plenty. It would be great return given the circumstances.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We really don't need 9 million in extra space unless you want to waste it all on a "top 6 winger" who will have infinitely less positive impact on Jack/Bratt or Timo/Nico than Dougie does.

NJD (assuming approximately 8 mill to luke and a full 22 man roster and nobody dumped) will have 2 open roster spots (a 3C and a 4RW) and 3.5 mill to fill said 2 spots. If you need 11.5 mill to fill 2 bottom 6 forwards, you're doing it wrong (and hint, that's how you end up with Ondrej Palats and Erik Haula and Brenden Dillon type contracts that we complain about in the first place)

If you don't trust Erik Haula to be a 4C. then you dump him and replace him with a different 4C (at around 2 mill ish saving about 1 mill in cap)
If you don't trust Palat to be a 3rd line winger, then you dump him and replace him with a 3rd line winger (I'd pray you aren't spending more than 4 mill at this slot so +2 mill there, find a warren foegele type)
If you're looking to spend anything more than 1.whatever mill on your 12th forward, you're doing it wrong.
Or you could look to send Dillon to Timbuktu and get an extra 2.5-3 mill there (assuming a Forbort/Kovacevic type acquisition as a 7D)

So that leaves 2.5 mill for a 3C (or as much as 9.5 with other changes). If you believe that's glass, I'd slot him there for that money. If not, you're likely best buying retention.

Everything that needs to be said has already been said on this topic. But yes, no question, I would rather spend 9 million dollars on multiple forward acquisitions than a 3rd pairing defenseman that gets hurt a lot and kinda stinks on defense now.

You’re fixated on not needing X amount of money to add to the forward group, which doesn’t make much sense. Having 9 million freed up totally changes the options Fitz can look at. Yes we can add a couple crappy players without that cap space. Great, no one wants that. That’s the point. Especially when we’re in a situation where Jack has been getting hurt pretty often. I’d rather have added an actual good player we can rely on vs some coattail riding bum we pinched pennies on.

 

[JrFischer54]

Caps team looks suspect AF how they win so many games?

Devils def could’ve hung with them damn shame man

 

[Emperoreddy]

Caps team looks suspect AF how they win so many games?

Devils def could’ve hung with them damn shame man

We will have another shot next year. These teams aren't going to change much next season.

 

[Smitty426]

I just can't wait until we see what we gave up for Quinn Hughes in a couple months from now.

I'm hoping its:
One of Hamilton/Palat (Or both! )
One of Nemec/Casey
Dawson Mercer
2026 1st round pick

Ya knows this is very unrealistic right
The first 2 have full control of where they go
The rest woukd be good but you're adding to do the first part

 

[JrFischer54]

We will have another shot next year. These teams aren't going to change much next season.

That’s true Fitz has to focus on building a team that can beat them

 

[Billdo]

Wonder what Boeser is going to get. Top 6 would look nice with Meier-Hischier-Boeser, Anyone but Palat-Hughes-Bratt

 

[glenwo2]

Canucks fan here: Just curious, What would you guys give up to get Quinn Hughes 2 years early?
Thanks!

Mercer, Nemec (or Casey), plus a future 1st-rounder.

(but that's just me)

 

[dgibb10]

Everything that needs to be said has already been said on this topic. But yes, no question, I would rather spend 9 million dollars on multiple forward acquisitions than a 3rd pairing defenseman that gets hurt a lot and kinda stinks on defense now.

You’re fixated on not needing X amount of money to add to the forward group, which doesn’t make much sense. Having 9 million freed up totally changes the options Fitz can look at. Yes we can add a couple crappy players without that cap space. Great, no one wants that. That’s the point. Especially when we’re in a situation where Jack has been getting hurt pretty often. I’d rather have added an actual good player we can rely on vs some coattail riding bum we pinched pennies on.

Hamilton had the best goal differential on the team among dmen 5v5, led our power play, and was the only dman capable of generating offense.

If it makes you feel better, put him back with siegs, give him 1 extra shift a game, and you can call him top pairing again.

He was the best dman the devils had for the entire second half of the year.


NJD has 7 dmen, 2 goalies, and 10 forwards already locked in (not including glass).

So, you are adding 2 guys max

Unless you are taking one of Gritysuk, Mercer, Jack, Bratt, Nico, or Meier out of the lineup (in which case you're an idiot).

If you aren't okay with Cotter on a 4th line, then idk what to tell you about what 4th lines look like (also he's staying in there's a reason he was acquired). You aren't finding much better in terms of 4th line caliber guys unless you want to chase 1 year wonders who will disappoint.

If you aren't okay with Noesen in the lineup, again, he's staying in idk what to tell you.

So that is 8 locked in. And if you want to replace Palat and Haula in the lineup (9 and 10) THAT badly to the point where you don't think they are capable of even playing on a 4th line, TRADE THEM, not your PP1 QB and your only dman who is consistent year to year

Buy some f***ing retention on good players. Simple as that

 

[dgibb10]

Here are the multi year retentions currently around.

Category 1: acquiring a player but getting him retained for a higher trade cost to make fit

Cam Fowler: success for the blues, he's been great for them
Carlo: Yet to be fully seen but I'd say success for sure
Seth Jones: yet to be seen but I liked it for Fla getting who they thought was a legit top dman for 25 minutes for them
Burns: success 100%
McCabe: success 100%
Marky: success
Allen: success
Ekholm: success 100%
Laughton: remains to be seen but I've liked it
Hertl: I'd say certainly a success
Karlsson: this is a weird one as they bought SOME retention, but still heavily went with the Salary dump approach of giving up productive NHLers in Granlund and Petry and Desmith. An example in granlund being dumping a guy backfiring
Petry (to Det): mostly a nothing deal, arguably could go in category 2 since MTL never planned on keeping him but meh

Category 2: retaining to lessen the cost of dumping salary on a bad contract (but still 0 or negative value). Not sure how I feel about this (eg us retaining on palat and shipping him to Tampa or somewhere who will take him)
Korpisalo:
Hayes:
Petry (to MTL):
Mikheyev

Buying retention works.

So many times you see someone get "cap dumped" to clear space and have a bounce back year or stay healthy in a way that makes teams look stupid.

 

[dgibb10]

Wonder what Boeser is going to get. Top 6 would look nice with Meier-Hischier-Boeser, Anyone but Palat-Hughes-Bratt

I hear 99% of gms quit right before the winger that finally maintains his production when you take him off PP1 and make him the 3rd option alongside 2 puck dominant stars

 

[Forge]

Wonder what Boeser is going to get. Top 6 would look nice with Meier-Hischier-Boeser, Anyone but Palat-Hughes-Bratt

I'd guess 7-7+

 

[dgibb10]

I'd guess 7-7+

Wake up new palat just dropped

 

[Zippy316]

I wonder who Fitzgerald is talking about when he says there will be changes.

From the sound of it, it didn’t seem like he was referring to the UFA guys like Tatar, Lazar, and Bastian.

Hamilton, Haula, and Palat seem like the obvious ones who could be on the outs. Mercer is another potential name. Maybe Meier if they want a bold move to switch things up. I could’ve seen Dillon but with the neck injury, I doubt anything’s possible.

Everyone else seems like they either shouldn’t be moved or signed too recently to be moved.

It goes without saying but I’d be beyond pissed if Fitzgerald moves Bratt with the logic of getting “bigger.” I just can’t fathom any way the Devils come out of a trade like that on top.

 

[Forge]

Wake up new palat just dropped

Not sure if it'll be that bad, but could depend on usage. He could age Tyler toffoli style, which is fine

 

[Bleedred]

I wonder who Fitzgerald is talking about when he says there will be changes.

From the sound of it, it didn’t seem like he was referring to the UFA guys like Tatar, Lazar, and Bastian.

Hamilton, Haula, and Palat seem like the obvious ones who could be on the outs. Mercer is another potential name. Maybe Meier if they want a bold move to switch things up. I could’ve seen Dillon but with the neck injury, I doubt anything’s possible.

Everyone else seems like they either shouldn’t be moved or signed too recently to be moved.

It goes without saying but I’d be beyond pissed if Fitzgerald moves Bratt with the logic of getting “bigger.” I just can’t fathom any way the Devils come out of a trade like that on top.

I don’t think there’s any chance Bratt is moved.

If Bratt is moved then the people higher up than Fitz need to intervene and block it, then fire Fitz immediately once and for all. No hyperbole, don’t tell me that’s harsh. That would be the watergate for Fitz.

I do think one of the three of Dougie, Palat, Haula goes. Possible one of them and Mercer.

I don’t think most of those UFA 4th liners, if any of them at all will be back.

 

[Killing Joke]

Wonder what Boeser is going to get. Top 6 would look nice with Meier-Hischier-Boeser, Anyone but Palat-Hughes-Bratt

Boeser is entirely too slow. This team needs speed.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Hamilton had the best goal differential on the team among dmen 5v5, led our power play, and was the only dman capable of generating offense.

If it makes you feel better, put him back with siegs, give him 1 extra shift a game, and you can call him top pairing again.

He was the best dman the devils had for the entire second half of the year.


NJD has 7 dmen, 2 goalies, and 10 forwards already locked in (not including glass).

So, you are adding 2 guys max

Unless you are taking one of Gritysuk, Mercer, Jack, Bratt, Nico, or Meier out of the lineup (in which case you're an idiot).

If you aren't okay with Cotter on a 4th line, then idk what to tell you about what 4th lines look like (also he's staying in there's a reason he was acquired). You aren't finding much better in terms of 4th line caliber guys unless you want to chase 1 year wonders who will disappoint.

If you aren't okay with Noesen in the lineup, again, he's staying in idk what to tell you.

So that is 8 locked in. And if you want to replace Palat and Haula in the lineup (9 and 10) THAT badly to the point where you don't think they are capable of even playing on a 4th line, TRADE THEM, not your PP1 QB and your only dman who is consistent year to year

Buy some f***ing retention on good players. Simple as that

Has been gone over 18 times, but we have Pesce, Kovacevic, and Nemec. They’re playing. Spending that much money on defense is painfully stupid, as is deploying a R-R pairing.

Instead of doing whatever mental gymnastics you’re doing to justify keeping this player, let’s just make the obvious move. We need forwards, we need cap space to get forwards, we have too many RHDs. Let’s make some cap space to get some forwards.

 

[Incharge1976]

$9M is not worth the few % points better PP with Dougie on it when we have other more important needs. I could care less if the PP% goes from 28% to 24%. This organization won two cups with a PP% near the bottom of the league.

We need to upgrade the forward groups that play 90% of the game. We can not continue to rely on 4 guys to carry the entire team for months at a time. I simply do not care if we lose what amounts to 6 to 8 goals on the PP if we replace it with 35 goals by using that money on multiple players who make our forward group much better.

 

[Zippy316]

Boeser is entirely too slow. This team needs speed.

Yeah I’d much rather the Devils give the contract Boeser would get to Ehlers.

 

[Zippy316]

I don’t think there’s any chance Bratt is moved.

If Bratt is moved then the people higher up than Fitz need to intervene and block it, then fire Fitz immediately once and for all. No hyperbole, don’t tell me that’s harsh. That would be the watergate for Fitz.

I do think one of the three of Dougie, Palat, Haula goes. Possible one of them and Mercer.

I don’t think most of those UFA 4th liners, if any of them at all will be back.

I don’t think so either, but I’m not 100% confident Fitzgerald wouldn’t explore it. He has an NMC so hopefully he shuts it down.

I do wonder if Fitzgerald explores moving Meier, if he would agree to waive. Maybe he would have some motivation to do so since he isn’t the guy here and his production has been lacking a bit.

Given that the Devils aren’t maximizing Meier on PP1 given our personnel, it could make sense to liquidate Meier’s cap space into two forwards (say McCann + Tolvanen).

 

[dgibb10]

Has been gone over 18 times, but we have Pesce, Kovacevic, and Nemec. They’re playing. Spending that much money on defense is painfully stupid, as is deploying a R-R pairing.

Instead of doing whatever mental gymnastics you’re doing to justify keeping this player, let’s just make the obvious move. We need forwards, we need cap space to get forwards, we have too many RHDs. Let’s make some cap space to get some forwards.

The mental gymnastics of "hey this team can't score for literal shit without hamilton on the ice".

we score a PITIFUL 2 goals/60 minutes 5v5 when hamilton isn't out there. That number jumps to 3.25 with him out there.

Nico and Jack score about 4 goals/60 with hamilton out there 5v5. That number plummets to about 2.7 without him out there (the goals against remains around the same).

He is a key engine to our PP as well.


We need to score more goals and you want to trade away the guy who is head and shoulders above everyone else in that regard.

 

[Devs3cups]

Bratt is one of the best wingers in the league on one of the best contracts in the league and has improved his physical game drastically over the last few years. He’s a long term piece for this club and I highly doubt he gets moved.

 

[dgibb10]

$9M is not worth the few % points better PP with Dougie on it when we have other more important needs. I could care less if the PP% goes from 28% to 24%. This organization won two cups with a PP% near the bottom of the league.

We need to upgrade the forward groups that play 90% of the game. We can not continue to rely on 4 guys to carry the entire team for months at a time. I simply do not care if we lose what amounts to 6 to 8 goals on the PP if we replace it with 35 goals by using that money on multiple players who make our forward group much better.

And if it goes to 20%? That would be 18 goals lost there btw.

The PP isn't a need, BECAUSE HAMILTON IS THERE.

And again. pretending dougie only exists on the PP is insane.

He was +15 5v5 (by far the best out of any dman). The rest of the dmen were in the negative (except siegs).

Jack and Nicos offensive outputs plummet without him.

This idea that the only impact of losing hamilton will be "a minorly worse PP" is just delusion.