Confirmed with Link: Devils acquire Meier (50% retained) and four others from the Sharks for 2023 1st, conditional 2024 1st, Mukhamadullin, Okhotiuk, Zetterlund & Johnsson

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Yeah I regret posting there. These guys obviously have no idea about any other players than their own and seem to be a bit delusional how things work.

I thought the Devils payed a lot! A lot more than the rumored Holtz+Sharangovich+1st, this is basically value worth four 1st round picks. The Devils can afford to lose it, because our prospect depth, especially on D is so good. But that doesn't mean the return is trash, it's a huge return for sub ppg guy without an extension.

I had good intentions trying to give some insight on these players, and was looking forward to rooting for SJ, but after the douche responses I got, nevermind..

I get it, after the Hall trade I felt quite annoyed, and a bunch of Coyotes fans telling me how great Nick Merkley is would have irritated me more than helped.

There's one post quoting all the Devils posters there and prtending to give them a post playoff series handshake that I laughed at. If the Sharks weren't a complete disaster with some of their contracts they extend rather than sell off Meier, and in a vaccuum that is a real tough trade to swallow as a Sharks fan.

 

[Devils731]

Muhk gets a bad rap as a prospect because there was a very vocal prospect rather that effectively said he was barely worthy of being drafted, let alone in the first round. That was controversial so it got into lots of people’s eyes and ears and that sticks with a lot of people, even if they don’t realize it.

So Muhk, to me, is a prospect with big upside. Defenseman are hard to project which adds risk but also potential. Muhk has a bunch of tools and a mindset that you don’t see in many 6’4” guys so there is a future world where he’s a complete 2-way stud. I don’t think most SJ fans realize that potential exists for Muhk, even when doing some light reading up on him; which drastically changes how one feels about the potential return.

For the Devils, making Muhk the centerpiece instead of Holtz makes sense because the Devils have a lot more defensive prospects in the pipeline rather than forward prospects.

I really like this trade for the Devils, they have up a pu pu platter of pieces that weren’t key to get a key piece.

For SJ, I think the trade has great potential and great risk. They could end up with anything from 3 impact players and 2 depth pieces to 2 depth pieces. As a SJ fan I would have preferred more of a “sure thing” impact piece but they did get extra potential in return for not getting the sure fire piece.

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

I had good intentions trying to give some insight on these players, and was looking forward to rooting for SJ, but after the douche responses I got, nevermind..

I'm not going to fault them. They have some grief and acceptance to go through. Their return was fine and they'll eventually process and realize it. The have a great package to start rebuilding with. Even if Zetterlund doesn't stay long term with the Sharks, when you look what guys like Coleman and Jeannot got, he could easily become worth a 1st at the next TDL.

Their perspective reminds a bit of when we sold Taylor Hall. Although he was UFA so it's not 1:1, it still strung to know we hit a dead end with that path, were limited on prospects (we had Nico, and Zacha was already looking to be a dud) but were still throwing in the towel and would suck for a while longer. Although I do think many of us were relieved when was traded, given he wasn't going to stay. SJ could have been in that situation next year with Timo, and the return would have less than they got this year.

 

[Bcap88]

This is really a home run deal for fitz if we can get Meier signed which I don’t think should be a problem

 

[Guttersniped]

I think Grier did it right, you can't let Meier and his agent choose his destination and say "I'm only signing here." Devils bluffed saying this was their package for an extended Timo, but I believe they had no actual interest in extending Timo just making their package look better.

What I don't get is what the plan is for Grier if not a complete rebuild. If you're not rebuilding why was re-signing Timo not considered? And if you are rebuilding why was Zetterlund, a guy infinitely more valuable to a cap team trying to win the cup the target? I guess he just legitmately didn't like Holtz, which is understandable, but liked Zetterlund who should have a very nice NHL career as a depth forward and will be useful for them immediately. So it's a "retool" but he made the team worse for the foreseeable future while adding some 1st rounders.

People keep assuming the Devils preferred keeping Zetterlund over Holtz. Not sure about that.

It sounded like the extension talks were limited and ended quickly. It wasn’t that article, but another discussed how the Sharks didn’t want another 8 year contract on their books. It’s a rebuild.

They didn’t gleefully ship him off because he’s the most productive player on a team that’s never shipped off a star in his prime before.

The expectations for the return were ridiculously high. I’m joining in poking fun at the Locked on Sharks guys because he’s whining that they didn’t get a “sure thing”. Just maybes in the draft picks and Muk (in that order for him).

That’s not how these trades work. Grier knew that. It’s funny to have a couple of people melodramatically bitching about what we gave up when this is the worst case scenario for many on the Sharks side.



In these 5 minutes you get Young, with a dead eye stare, complain he didn’t get a Grade A prospect, which is Mercer, Hughes and Nemec (the last being a “must get” at one point).

He also complains they didn’t get Holtz, a “grade B” prospect, because he heard a Holtz and Muk combined deal was possible (from articles guessing packages).

He complains Grier didn’t take better rumored deals from other teams (because one had a unnamed Grade A prospect in them lol) even though he admits no one really competed hard with us at the end.

On the complaints on our side…

If Carolina offered Morrow and/or St Louis offered 2 1sts, we probably needed to offer 2 1sts and a defenseman (which luckily wasn’t that hard because that’s mostly what we drafted in the 1st & 2nd round lately).

Fitz does a good job of moving intriguing lesser prospects with NHL experience while their value is still there, Okhotiuk is another example. He was at a big risk of becoming a waiver wire victim if we kept him for depth.

Some of the pieces we moved do matter, and I don’t down play their value. You have to be realistic about their value though.

 

[ninetyeight]

I get it, after the Hall trade I felt quite annoyed, and a bunch of Coyotes fans telling me how great Nick Merkley is would have irritated me more than helped.

There's one post quoting all the Devils posters there and prtending to give them a post playoff series handshake that I laughed at. If the Sharks weren't a complete disaster with some of their contracts they extend rather than sell off Meier, and in a vaccuum that is a real tough trade to swallow as a Sharks fan.

I did mention them that the guy they wanted in Mercer, was a 18OA pick from the Taylor Hall trade that had a similar response among Devils fans. So it's now down to their drafting, but Mukhamadullin, Zetterlund & Okhotyuk as a return is multiple tiers above Bahl, Merkley and Schnarr.

But it's my own fault for posting into other team's sub, good intentions or not, lesson learned.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

People keep assuming the Devils preferred keeping Zetterlund over Holtz. Not sure about that.

Fair, this board overrating Z's standing in the organization was very possible. Ruff's scratches to me were just the usual "earn your spot / oh you made a mistake punish the" rookie lineup decisions that all coaches make. I think they and Grier knew how valuable he was but I don't reject this possibility out of hand.

 

[Nubmer6]

Yeah I regret posting there. These guys obviously have no idea about any other players than their own and seem to be a bit delusional how things work.

I thought the Devils payed a lot! A lot more than the rumored Holtz+Sharangovich+1st, this is basically value worth four 1st round picks. The Devils can afford to lose it, because our prospect depth, especially on D is so good. But that doesn't mean the return is trash, it's a huge return for sub ppg guy without an extension.

I had good intentions trying to give some insight on these players, and was looking forward to rooting for SJ, but after the douche responses I got, nevermind..

Part of their reaction is that they don't know the players. Muk hasn't played here yet and was completely off the radar when he got picked, leading to a lot of the pundits downplaying the selection, and Zetterlund was a lower round pick. It doesn't have the flash, but I think that it shows Grier has a grasp on good players.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

the only reason the return doesn’t look massive is because the Devils has such an insane group of prospects and young players. Muk is the best D prospect on almost every team in the league, plus Zetterlund, a 1st, and a conditional 2nd. Beats the hell out of the Hall return, the Horvat return… but everyone got their hopes up (or down) about Mercer and Nemec and Holtz+++.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Fitz was trying hard to keep Shara and Holtz in the deal instead of Muk and Zetterlund, or something similar to that. We’ll probably never know.

 

[devilsblood]

Muhk gets a bad rap as a prospect because there was a very vocal prospect rather that effectively said he was barely worthy of being drafted, let alone in the first round. That was controversial so it got into lots of people’s eyes and ears and that sticks with a lot of people, even if they don’t realize it.

So Muhk, to me, is a prospect with big upside. Defenseman are hard to project which adds risk but also potential. Muhk has a bunch of tools and a mindset that you don’t see in many 6’4” guys so there is a future world where he’s a complete 2-way stud. I don’t think most SJ fans realize that potential exists for Muhk, even when doing some light reading up on him; which drastically changes how one feels about the potential return.

For the Devils, making Muhk the centerpiece instead of Holtz makes sense because the Devils have a lot more defensive prospects in the pipeline rather than forward prospects.

I really like this trade for the Devils, they have up a pu pu platter of pieces that weren’t key to get a key piece.

For SJ, I think the trade has great potential and great risk. They could end up with anything from 3 impact players and 2 depth pieces to 2 depth pieces. As a SJ fan I would have preferred more of a “sure thing” impact piece but they did get extra potential in return for not getting the sure fire piece.

I agree Muk has potential. But he’s definitely not a sure thing. Not sure Id consider him the centerpiece either. Its a 4 piece center imo.

 

[Nubmer6]

Sharks fans were always going to be disappointed by the return if they thought for a moment that Nemec or Mercer could be part of the deal. They made out better than I expected, but I get why they would feel disappointed with no grade A assets coming back.

I remember a few weeks back a sharks fan came onto our boards asking about potential returns. We suggested our standard 1st + Holtz + Muk/Bahl/Shara, but warned him that the return may be lower than expected (judging by our experiences selling big players in the past).

When you add it all up, I think it kind of came out even-ish.

 

[theoptimist]

I'll say this with Zett; the fact that he's a young guy that has value as quality depth for a team that's making a Cup push might be exactly why the Sharks got him - maybe not this year, but soon there could be another contender knocking on their door for a trade, and Zetterlund is a nice piece to be able to offer as part of a decent package deal that lands them some more pieces for their rebuild. You see baseball teams do this a lot with high-end relievers or mid-rotation starting pitchers: some crappy teams will sign a guy or two like that in the offseason despite the fact they don't project at all to contend, but there's always a market for those kinds of players at the deadline, and if a contender is needy enough they might give you something nice.

I don't think Grier's delusional enough to think the Sharks are just a reload/retool/etc. away; it's possible that Sharks ownership has him under a quasi "don't say 'rebuild'" edict for fear it'll cost ticket sales, though. It's also possible that he sees Zett as a useful player now, maybe playing the type of game he wants to see throughout the organization in some capacity, but I'm just saying there's also a chance they could end up moving him if the right offer came along, since there's always a market for players like Zett.

Like babysitting

 

[Guttersniped]

Yeah my bad. Read a tweet yesterday that said “it’s not a full on rebuild” but I glossed over the not a. Not surprising given it’s Grier but they should be going full rebuild

It’s a full rebuild, they just have several unmovable big contracts.

He’s moving what he can, not sure how that’s not a rebuild. Getting Zetterlund in this trade doesn’t make it not a rebuild.

The market for Karlsson is obviously there but it’s very difficult to move a 11.5m defenseman to a contender when most of them are in a cap crunch and already have high-priced defensemen.

 

[GameSeven]

This is there rewards of drafting well. Devils had a lot of pieces to move since a lot of of their other prospects panned out/developed well. Sadly that's something my Rangers could never figure out. Good work by the Devils to get a top trade deadline target for a relatively good deal.

It's also a reward for putting up results as a team. Zetterlund probably fetches more as a contributing member of a winner than a struggling winger on a lottery team.

Like Bergfors in the Kovalchuk trade, having guys who pass the eye test on a winning team helps maximize their value in a deal.

 

[Darkauron]

As much as Muk seemed good, I kind of get tired of players not coming over to NA like that and we dont really know how well he would translate. Also with things going on over there id even more wanted them to be in NA.

I love that Nemec came over like he did. And then we can watch/view him more

 

[Devils731]

I agree Muk has potential. But he’s definitely not a sure thing. Not sure Id consider him the centerpiece either. Its a 4 piece center imo.

Muhk has the most value of any of the pieces, imo. I wouldn’t trade Muhk for a 20th overall pick right now.

For me the value flow is:

Muhk
—————
Followed pretty closely by each first
—————
Decent gap to Zetterlund
—————
Decent gap to Ohk

 

[Guttersniped]

As much as Muk seemed good, I kind of get tired of players not coming over to NA like that and we dont really know how well he would translate. Also with things going on over there id even more wanted them to be in NA.

I love that Nemec came over like he did. And then we can watch/view him more

Muk is signed and the plan was always to have him play in the KHL this season, his not coming over isn’t a thing.

Nemec played in a much worse league. He would either have had to switch to a new, better European league or gif to the AHL.

 

[GameSeven]

I don’t even know what this means.

Fitz traded for a known commodity he views as a long term piece.

He's saying that Meier won a golden ticket moving from a basement team to a contender, explaining why he was happy I'm the presser.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Devils fans yesterday after seeing that Mercer , Holtz or Casey wasn't sent to the Sharks in the Meier trade.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I dropped by the Sharks board man, oh man, is it verging on civil war. Some of them genuinely thought they were getting Mercer or Luke Hughes for a guy without a contract.

IMO they are insane for thinking they could get a better deal. If Grier let teams negotiate an extension the return would have been higher, but under these circumstances they simply weren't going to be getting a better offer.

I said this in the Timo thread on the trade board like 2 months ago, but Sharks fans have no idea what it means to be sellers. The entire concept of a quantity for quality trade or learning about prospects that other teams drafted and how they project is anathema to them. The guys they've shipped out previously were all over the hill. My teams have sold Hossa, Kovalchuk, and Hall. I tried to tell them how this works and that they should be thrilled with a return of Holtz, Mukh, and a 1st and they insisted I was crazy. The return they got is arguably better than that depending on how you think Holtz compares to Zetterlund and a conditional first.

they'll come around. Right now, they have no idea what's going on. The media sold them on Mercer or Nemec just like it does for all the other players that get sold for "disappointing" returns.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Devils fans yesterday after seeing that Mercer , Holtz or Casey wasn't sent to the Sharks in the Meier trade.

There's no way Mercer was ever going to be involved. I'm actually stunned to see how many Sharks fans are disappointed not to get him or another insane ask like Nemec.

But not giving up Holtz or Casey is pretty big lol. If they stop dicking around with Holtz that can prove really useful

 

[devilsblood]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Fitz was trying hard to keep Shara and Holtz in the deal instead of Muk and Zetterlund, or something similar to that. We’ll probably never know.

this is the interesting part to me that we probably will never know. Was Fitz trying to protect shara and Holtz? Or did SJ really want Zetterlund?

 

[Blackjack]

Some of the pieces we moved do matter, and I don’t down play their value. You have to be realistic about their value though.

I’m not going to complain too much, but I am annoyed at the price we ended up paying. Why did we have to pay so much more than the Knights paid for Stone or the Coyotes paid for Hall?

The two parts that annoy me are the inclusion of Zetterlund and the conditions on the 2024 pick. I mean, it’s hard to feel good about this trade if we don’t go to a conference final in the next two years.

 

[OmNomNom]

I said this in the Timo thread on the trade board like 2 months ago, but Sharks fans have no idea what it means to be sellers. The entire concept of a quantity for quality trade or learning about prospects that other teams drafted and how they project is anathema to them. The guys they've shipped out previously were all over the hill. My teams have sold Hossa, Kovalchuk, and Hall. I tried to tell them how this works and that they should be thrilled with a return of Holtz, Mukh, and a 1st and they insisted I was crazy. The return they got is arguably better than that depending on how you think Holtz compares to Zetterlund and a conditional first.

they'll come around. Right now, they have no idea what's going on. The media sold them on Mercer or Nemec just like it does for all the other players that get sold for "disappointing" returns.

i (and i know a few others on here) went to their forums to walk them off the ledge, but yeah -- seems like social media really twisted their expectations (along with people going arund saying we fleeced them). it really doesn't seem like this was a fleecing, but more like a bandage rip that had to happen (he was someone who had to be moved)

I’m not going to complain too much, but I am annoyed at the price we ended up paying. Why did we have to pay so much more than the Knights paid for Stone or the Coyotes paid for Hall?

The two parts that annoy me are the inclusion of Zetterlund and the conditions on the 2024 pick. I mean, it’s hard to feel good about this trade if we don’t go to a conference final in the next two years.

i think we all agree on that part - it really is contingent on some parts of our core falling apart. but if nico, jack, bratt, vanecek, timo, and dougie can keep going, then there's no reason we shouldn't be in the mix.

losing zetterlund sucks, but not making deep runs in the next 2 years will hurt more. fitz hasn't done anything to make me distrust his plan, though

 

[Guttersniped]

I’m not going to complain too much, but I am annoyed at the price we ended up paying. Why did we have to pay so much more than the Knights paid for Stone or the Coyotes paid for Hall?

The two parts that annoy me are the inclusion of Zetterlund and the conditions on the 2024 pick. I mean, it’s hard to feel good about this trade if we don’t go to a conference final in the next two years.

I’m annoyed by Zetterlund being included too, I’m a huge fan, but this is what it took to get the deal done.

Those players were UFAs and Meier is RFA.