BananaGenetics
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- Jun 29, 2022
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Didnt Shero struggle with defense in Pittsburgh too? Idt Letang was his pick?
Confirmed with Link: Devils Acquire John Marino for Ty Smith & a 2023 3rd Round Pick
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JimEIV
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- Feb 19, 2003
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I don't think Fitz is purging Shero guys...Shero didn't leave anything. Most of Shero's defensemen are out of the league or have one foot out
Out of the league
Auvitu
Kyle Quincey
Dalton Prout last year AHL
Stollery last year AHL
Lovejoy
Schlemko
Mueller
Then John Moore is on his 6 or 7th team now, Butcher can't start in Buffalo and Subban is pretty much done.
Then there's Smith.
You want to know what is really funny....Jon Merrill is going outlast all of Shero's defensemen in the league.
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Yeah, drafting Hughes and Nemec required nothing except the 4th and 2nd overall picks. Brilliant insight.
Maltsev was a piece with value and Greene was sold for the pick they used to get Graves. Hall was used for the pick they used to get Siegenthaler. Hamilton signed here in part because he can see the future here with the players the Devils have. It's just way easier to do stuff when you are not in complete limbo, and you've accrued some stuff from selling. The Devils had a future deficit of picks when Shero took over.
JimEIV
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2003
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Your point was we now have assets to make trades..picks require no assets, every team has picks...and the funniest part of this response is you essentially site picks that have there origins in Greene and Larsson....but Shero created the assets and we had nothing?
Lol
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njdevils1982
Hell Toupée!!!
Oneiro
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2013
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A team that is losing games 1-0 with Greene, Merrill, Severson and Larsson on the squad. Yeah, let's draft all defensemen and do the rebuild the right way!
We have the luxury of targetting a specific side of the defense in the '22 draft because there is actual competition up front for the first time in twenty years. Part of why our top picks, from Nico and Jack to Zacha and Bratt, were (wrongfully) gifted their roles was because there was no one to take them from.
You currently have three later round Shero forwards with spots on the roster in Bratt, Sharangovich and Bastian and at least three more vying for remaining spots in Boqvist, Zetterlund and Thompson. And that doesn't include other candidates down the line from Grityuk, Moynihan, etc. nor the fact that we traded Maltsev and Anderson for NHL players, both of whom can be dealt quite easily again. It is common sense that spending a lot on depth forwards is a bad strategy with respect to the salary cap. You can spend at the more important positions because of depth at this spot.
You have to start somewhere. Shero, whom I agree has little feel for building a defense, started with the obvious which is putting some goals on a team that can't score.
We have the luxury of targetting a specific side of the defense in the '22 draft because there is actual competition up front for the first time in twenty years. Part of why our top picks, from Nico and Jack to Zacha and Bratt, were (wrongfully) gifted their roles was because there was no one to take them from.
You currently have three later round Shero forwards with spots on the roster in Bratt, Sharangovich and Bastian and at least three more vying for remaining spots in Boqvist, Zetterlund and Thompson. And that doesn't include other candidates down the line from Grityuk, Moynihan, etc. nor the fact that we traded Maltsev and Anderson for NHL players, both of whom can be dealt quite easily again. It is common sense that spending a lot on depth forwards is a bad strategy with respect to the salary cap. You can spend at the more important positions because of depth at this spot.
You have to start somewhere. Shero, whom I agree has little feel for building a defense, started with the obvious which is putting some goals on a team that can't score.
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Letang was drafted the year before he took over. His track record of drafting defensemen was not very good there. They used 1st round picks on Despres, Morrow, Pouliot, and Maatta and 2nd round picks on Harrington, Samuelsson, and some guy named Sneep who I've never heard of. They did draft Muzzin in the 6th round, even though he obviously went on to have success with another team.
Although it was a different scouting staff than when he was with us, so who knows what the results would have been if he had focused more on defense than forwards here. Just looking through the 2017 draft for instance, there aren't really a lot of defensemen taken where we took Boqvist and Zetterlund or later that have made an impact in the NHL yet. Mario Ferraro is probably the most notable, so it's not like there are a bunch of defensemen that are making those picks look bad right now. In 2018 after we took Smith at #17 we didn't pick again until #110 where we took another defenseman. 2019 we did draft a D in the 2nd round and a couple in the 3rd, so I think we did focus a little more on defense during Shero's last couple drafts.
I really wonder how much Shero listened to the scouts or lack there of as it seems Shero poor drafting has followed him all over the place with multiple different scouting departments. It wouldn’t surprise me if fitz listens to the scout guys more than Shero did also if Shero was still here and wright was on the board at 2 no doubt in my mind they pick wright over nemec
- Dec 20, 2018
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One issue I have with both Sheo and Fitz is that they seemed to be a bit over -focused.
Shero decided we needed scoring, and drafted almost all forwards. Then he realized we needed defensemen and went D happy. Fitz saw we needed RHD and went nuts with them this last draft. I fully expect next year's draft to be center heavy.
It's nice to recognize team deficiencies, but I don't like overcompensating. We really should have nabbed a couple depth centers this last draft.
I do think Fitz is better at recognizing the team's weaknesses, and I like his ability to evaluate talent. I liked Shero's policy of picking a goalie each draft. It's gotta pay off eventually. I like that Fitz was willing to cut bait with Smith and managed to get a good return before it was too late.
Not sure where I'm going with this. I guess I just felt like spewing some random GM thoughts.
- Dec 20, 2018
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The only thing left to see is if Fitz has too much loyalty to his coaches like Shero did. Everything else has been solid for me so far. His 2022 draft has been very good which kind of gets rid of my worries about the draft with him as GM. Still have to see on that aspect.
glenwo2
JESPER BRATWURST
Don't forget, I also told all you folks Pavel Zacha would retrieve something of good value in a trade and that Ty Smith would be traded this off-season. Also, Lucy and I both have great hair.
Omar Little
Omar comin yo
I know everyone is talking about trading Severson now but what if this just a play to acquire Marino for a year and then trade him next offseason. He should still have meaningful value as he will have 4 years left on a reasonable contract.
It at least provides us the flexibility and leverage to have more team friendly contract discussions with Severson.
It at least provides us the flexibility and leverage to have more team friendly contract discussions with Severson.
JimEIV
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2003
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Here is my problem with what you are saying...
Your comments imply that what was done as far as drafting and team building has put us in better place today...But has it?
Aside from the 2018 season on the back of Taylor we literally have gone backward almost every year.
Look at this and be objective for one moment:
2015 - DeBoer Fired, Stevens/Oates a placeholder for Shero's coaching choice...Lou cutoff at the knees sometime in the January/February time frame and eventually fired in May - No top 6 forward prospects, a decent group of young D, no real cap issues and plenty of space, a bunch of picks from the Zidlicky and Jagr trades...Some decent bottom 6 prospects -
Can we agree that was basically the situation? That was supposed to be "Rock Bottom" but no, no, no...Not even close to "Rock Bottom"
2015 32 wins
2016 38 wins
2017 28 wins
2018 44 wins
2019 31 wins -- 5 years after Shero and we are winning less games than Lou's last year that was largely seen as a debacle and "Rock Bottom"
2020 28 wins in 69 -- A better point percentage than the year before but still a debacle being the 6th worst team in league but now with 2 #1OA in the lineup
2021 19 wins in 56 games .402 P% the worst point percentage in 34 years. We haven't been this bad since 87'
2022 27 wins in a full season - Now with 8 years worth of #1 overalls in the lineup .384 Win percentage. Worse than historically bad previous year and worse since 1986...The 5th worst season in Franchise History
Now to my problem with what you are saying... We were SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER "losing games 1-0 with Greene, Merrill, Severson and Larsson" than we have been in the last 4 years with 2 #1OA in the lineup
At what point do admit that shit Shero was selling simply didn't work? We are still bailing out of that mess and we haven't seen a season better than 2015 season which we all thought was "rock bottom" in the last 4 years. Now going on 8 seasons and we are still waiting to take a step forward...That's a joke. And it's Shero's fault 100% we are where we are.
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The reason why it went backwards is that the Devils were a cap team in 2015 who had two goalies that kept them out of the basement and in 2022 they weren't anywhere close to a cap team and had two goalies that kept them in the basement, hope this helps, it's only been explained to you 80 times.
JimEIV
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2003
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The "reason" and your "explanation" are irrelevant. The record speaks for itself.
I can explain you all the reasons I gained 40 pounds last year doesn't change the fact I am fat.
And if goaltending is a problem today...8 years after the regime change...Who's fault is that that we have no viable prospects and even a stop gap solution good enough to hold water?
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tkachuk seems to hold a mythical value among the devils fan base. most seem to ignore:
- that tkachuk has only one season with above ppg production
- that this production came as result of playing on the most productive line in the nhl
- that he wasn't the player carrying that line
- that he isn't a prototype power forward
- that contract negotiations with him were really difficult for calgary
- that he is on record to ask for top money
part of his behaviour is potentially related to his desire to get out of calgary. but who knows if would be eager to join the devils. if his ask for a new contract starts at 10m or above, i wouldn't care to send any assets to calgary. he most likely will go to fa anyway and i have a feeling, that he won't be equally productive without gaudreau and he won't be in a position to ask for the same type of contract.
i prefer bratt over tkachuk. the devils can use a second great line driver like hughes on the hischier line and bratt has proven his fit with the current roster. only if contract negotiations with bratt fail, i would consider this.
i don't think we will ever know, if fitz wanted to draft 4 rhd or it just happened.
i assume positional value (from devils perspective) played a role in the first two rounds. but i can totally see, that orlov, leddy and captain hector barbosa were at the top of their board, where they picked them with no forward close. if he knew, who would be available in the later rounds, he might would have opted for a forward instead of casey.
he was 'gifted' weak competition for it.
Eggtimer
Registered User
Maybe they will play Hamilton Severson Marino this year up until the TDL and decide who to move between Marino and Severson? Whoever the better value is for $$$ vs. effectiveness.
- May 1, 2011
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Because how often does a player with 5 years left on his deal get acquired, only to be traded again the very next year with 4 years left?
I love the notion of building from the back-end. One of my favorite things about the Devils was that even when they were leading the league in scoring, they were known as a PITA "defensive" team. They had an identiy. If speed, agility, transition and positioning on defense becomes the "Devils Way", I more than happy to sacrifice "scoring". Of course this needs to translate to wins. I am absolutely sick of getting caved in for periods, praying that the opposition doesn't get a shot towards our swiss cheese goaltenders and having opposing wingers run players with zero answer (this was a bigger problem a couple years ago).
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