Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXVI

[Devs4L]

When did this convo turn to being a contender?

We've been a losing team every season since 2012, except one, when we were nearly swept in round 1. So, nearly 10 years now.

Contender is yeeearrrs away. I'm looking to just play meaningful games this time of the season with some consistency. We were beat by a rival in year 3 of their rebuild doing just that.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Yeah, cuz anywhere in my posts I said that.

I've said things like, I'm still willing to wait for these guys to emerge, even the ones who haven't stepped on the ice yet and also not on board just spending assets on middle of the road plugs.

There is nuance to shit people just refuse to realize because that would cut out most the of the one liner responses that have nothing to do with what is said. And we can't have that.

You literally asked “at what point are we done with that process?” word for word.

 

[Unknown Caller]

When did this convo turn to being a contender?

We've been a losing team every season since 2012, except one, when we were nearly swept in round 1. So, nearly 10 years now.

Contender is yeeearrrs away. I'm looking to just play meaningful games this time of the season with some consistency. We were beat by a rival in year 3 of their rebuild

Here we go with comparing the Devils to the Rangers “rebuild” again. And we’re probably a lot closer to being contenders than you think.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

They are putting meat around the bone. You just choose to ignore it. It ends when your star player isn’t a teenager and your captain plays more than 5 games in a season, for starters.

So you’re saying 2 to 3 years, correct?

 

[TheDuke93]

When did this convo turn to being a contender?

We've been a losing team every season since 2012, except one, when we were nearly swept in round 1. So, nearly 10 years now.

Contender is yeeearrrs away. I'm looking to just play meaningful games this time of the season with some consistency. We were beat by a rival in year 3 of their rebuild

Bringing the Rangers up shows a total lack of context when comparing the two franchises. That aside building into a perennial contender should be the goal as opposed to just fighting to make the playoffs. Now I do think next year we should be looking to compete for a play off spot for sure.

 

[Unknown Caller]

So you’re saying 2 to 3 years, correct?

I would say 2 years. Improved team next year, team really takes off the year after. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them challenge or sneak into a playoff spot next year, I just don’t expect them to be really dynamic for two years.

 

[TrufleShufle]

But we are addressing organizational needs. We were extremely thin on the left side of the blue line so we drafted four solid prospects, one with immense upside. Our right side is weak and we lack goal scorers. Well we traded for a guy who projects as a 20+ scorer, we then went and drafted the player with the best shot in the whole entire draft and then followed that up with another kid who many said fell and is looking like a tremendous pick now. I have faith personally that we are making the right moves.

You are 100% right, I don't have issue with anything we done draft wise and am very excited to see it all come together, I am just hoping we give all these guys the best chance to succeed, I'm not at the point of panic at all.

 

[MichaelJ]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this, but would you guys consider the following:

To NJ
Compher
2021 third

To Col
2021 Buff fifth

COL: Wood, 2021 BUF 5th
NJD: 2021 1st, Barron, Compher

 

[TrufleShufle]

You literally asked “at what point are we done with that process?” word for word.

Yeah, I treat posters differently depending how they talk. He talks in short useless posts, so I respond in kind. Don't think about them as much as other responses.

 

[MadDevil]

But it does... Its why hall left. Its why Palms left. Its why zajac waived his NTC to get out of here. They all explicitly said that to press and new team media.. Etc.

Want a chance to win.. Want a chance to cup...

They all explicitly said what every player says when they get traded to or sign with a team. That doesn't mean they left their former team because of a losing culture.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I would say 2 years. Improved team next year, team really takes off the year after.

I just want to pic your brain here. So if you say 2 years, when do you think Holtz and Mercer will crack our roster or better yet, when are we giving our 2 centers the help they drastically need to perform at their peak?

I don’t see anyone we drafted last year cracking our team in the next 24 months and if they do, they’ll have a low impact on our success, unless we’re really lucky.

I’m not accusing you of wishful thinking but I don’t see how we’ll be relevant if we don’t make some major moves.

 

[TheDuke93]

You are 100% right, I don't have issue with anything we done draft wise and am very excited to see it all come together, I am just hoping we give all these guys the best chance to succeed, I'm not at the point of panic at all.

Now I will say this, the ONLY thing that concerns me is how truly thin we are down the right side. Severson is legit top 4 defensemen, Subban I believe when he's playing his game is as well, but are we going to extend him for a reasonable amount of money and term? He is on the wrong side of 30 obviously. Butcher is not an NHL caliber defenseman imo with the way the league is headed. McCarthy is an okay prospect as far as being a bottom pairing guy. MAYBE if he plays with Smith he could be propped up and play top four but I'm not counting on that.

 

[Devs4L]

Bringing the Rangers up shows a total lack of context when comparing the two franchises. That aside building into a perennial contender should be the goal as opposed to just fighting to make the playoffs. Now I do think next year we should be looking to compete for a play off spot for sure.

Of course that's the goal. My point is the results showing how close we are to that. And we're not there yet.

Shero himself literally called this a 3-5 year rebuild when he came here in 2015. And he didn't mean decent in 5 years. He meant starting to show results in year 3, potentially contending by year 5. We're entering season 7 hoping we may only be a a year or two away from competing consistently.

Do you honestly think players like Palmieri, Hall, Vatanen, Gusev, and Johansson would have been traded for, if the belief was at that time we were still this far away? Shero has been fired, for God's sake! Lol. There's literal proof within the organization that this has taken far longer than even the organization expected.

 

[Blackjack]

Man, our cap situation next year is straight up bizarre -

Nineteen million dollars in one-way forward contracts (Hischier, Johnsson, Wood, Bratt, Zacha)
Five million dollars in forward ELCs (Hughes, Boqvist, Thompson, Maltsev, Mercer)
Five expiring ELCs (Merkley, McLeod, Kuokkanen, Sharangovich, Bastian)
Zero UFAs

Seventeen Million dollars in one-way defenseman contracts (Subban, Severson, Butcher)
One defenseman ELC (Smith)
One arbitration eligible RFA (Siegenthaler) and one UFA (Murray)

And one goalie signed for $2.8 million

All this means that even if we give Kuokkanen and Sharangovich a little bump, we'll need to sign (or add via trade) almost $10 million in payroll to meet the cap floor.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Devils had to do a total rebuild, their best asset was a freaking fossil in Jagr and did not have many good young roster players.

Rangers only had to retool because they had a ton of good players to get good value in trades and they already had good forwards in their prime.

Anyone conflating the two is a freaking idiot, sorry to be blunt but its true.

 

[TheDuke93]

I just want to pic your brain here. So if you say 2 years, when do you think Holtz and Mercer will crack our roster or better yet, when are we giving our 2 centers the help they drastically need to perform at their peak?

I don’t see anyone we drafted last year cracking our team in the next 24 months and if they do, they’ll have a low impact on our success, unless we’re really lucky.

I’m not accusing you of wishful thinking but I don’t see how we’ll be relevant if we don’t make some major moves.

I could 100% see Mercer, Foote and Holtz all being on the roster in the next 24 months. I could realistically see any of them stepping in and being put on a line with Nico or Jack and preforming well. Now to what extent would you consider well, that's up too you. We don't need to ask these kids to carry the workload when they come in is the major difference between this season and the 2023 season. Bratt, Nico, Jack and Smith will all be improved. No matter what Kuokkanen, Sharongovich, Zacha and McLeod amount too they will be better hockey players in 2 years. That will trickle down and with influx of more talent the team will improve.

 

[TheDuke93]

Of course that's the goal. My point is the results showing how close we are to that. And we're not there yet.

Shero himself literally called this a 3-5 year rebuild when he came here in 2015. And he didn't mean decent in 5 years. He meant starting to show results in year 3, potentially contending by year 5. We're entering season 7 hoping we may only be a a year or two away from competing consistently.

Do you honestly think players like Palmieri, Hall, Vatanen, Gusev, and Johansson would have been traded for, if the belief was at that time we were still this far away? Shero has been fired, for God's sake! Lol. There's literal proof within the organization that this has taken far longer than even the organization expected.

That's mostly because we had a bare cupboard to start with and Shero tried to skip some steps along the way imo.

 

[Hockey Fanatik]

Man, our cap situation next year is straight up bizarre -

Nineteen million dollars in one-way forward contracts (Hischier, Johnsson, Wood, Bratt, Zacha)
Five million dollars in forward ELCs (Hughes, Boqvist, Thompson, Maltsev, Mercer)
Five expiring ELCs (Merkley, McLeod, Kuokkanen, Sharangovich, Bastian)
Zero UFAs

Seventeen Million dollars in one-way defenseman contracts (Subban, Severson, Butcher)
One defenseman ELC (Smith)
One arbitration eligible RFA (Siegenthaler) and one UFA (Murray)

And one goalie signed for $2.8 million

All this means that even if we give Kuokkanen and Sharangovich a little bump, we'll need to sign (or add via trade) almost $10 million in payroll to meet the cap floor.

Itll be an exciting off-season to say the least!!

 

[TheDuke93]

Man, our cap situation next year is straight up bizarre -

Nineteen million dollars in one-way forward contracts (Hischier, Johnsson, Wood, Bratt, Zacha)
Five million dollars in forward ELCs (Hughes, Boqvist, Thompson, Maltsev, Mercer)
Five expiring ELCs (Merkley, McLeod, Kuokkanen, Sharangovich, Bastian)
Zero UFAs

Seventeen Million dollars in one-way defenseman contracts (Subban, Severson, Butcher)
One defenseman ELC (Smith)
One arbitration eligible RFA (Siegenthaler) and one UFA (Murray)

And one goalie signed for $2.8 million

All this means that even if we give Kuokkanen and Sharangovich a little bump, we'll need to sign (or add via trade) almost $10 million in payroll to meet the cap floor.

I would like to see if we can bring in a veteran goal scorer on a high AAV short term deal or get Nuge. Anything else imo is a waste of $ and time as far as free agents go.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Now I will say this, the ONLY thing that concerns me is how truly thin we are down the right side. Severson is legit top 4 defensemen, Subban I believe when he's playing his game is as well, but are we going to extend him for a reasonable amount of money and term? He is on the wrong side of 30 obviously. Butcher is not an NHL caliber defenseman imo with the way the league is headed. McCarthy is an okay prospect as far as being a bottom pairing guy. MAYBE if he plays with Smith he could be propped up and play top four but I'm not counting on that.

This is tough, because with him, we are in a similar position we were with Palms exactly a year ago, past the deadline with another year on the books. With Palms, I wanted to lock him up for a few years knowing/hoping in a couple years he would be pushed down the line up by what we have in the pipeline. Still be there for that, been around the locker room for a while, vet presence, while also providing the young guys a cushion to get dropped down a line if they needed it. So much changed from then to a month ago that completely made all mean nothing, so with Subban I'd wait.

But if we are out of it at the deadline next year, and he is still playing at this level, I'd keep him and throw him a couple years to just stay there until a better option forces him down the line up, but he is still contributing on and off the ice. Obviously what he wants as far as term and money goes can make this a no brainer in either direction, but I'd lean towards it hurting a little bit rather than a take it or there is the door offer.

 

[Blackjack]

Itll be an exciting off-season to say the least!!

If Seattle takes Butcher or Johnsson, then it really gets wild.

 

[Blackjack]

I would like to see if we can bring in a veteran goal scorer on a high AAV short term deal or get Nuge. Anything else imo is a waste of $ and time as far as free agents go.

I'm not opposed to bringing Palmieri back, but he wants term, so he'll test the market first. Maybe if he doesn't get 6 or 7 years, he'll come back to NJ for five. I don't think a veteran goalscorer is signing for less than five years unless they're way over the hill.

This is tough, because with him, we are in a similar position we were with Palms exactly a year ago, past the deadline with another year on the books. With Palms, I wanted to lock him up for a few years knowing/hoping in a couple years he would be pushed down the line up by what we have in the pipeline. Still be there for that, been around the locker room for a while, vet presence, while also providing the young guys a cushion to get dropped down a line if they needed it. So much changed from then to a month ago that completely made all mean nothing, so with Subban I'd wait.

But if we are out of it at the deadline next year, and he is still playing at this level, I'd keep him and throw him a couple years to just stay there until a better option forces him down the line up, but he is still contributing on and off the ice. Obviously what he wants as far as term and money goes can make this a no brainer in either direction, but I'd lean towards it hurting a little bit rather than a take it or there is the door offer.

Yeah, absolutely, if Subban plays well next season I would sign him for a few more years for a reasonable AAV. Even if we luck out and draft Brandt Clarke, we'll have plenty of room on the right side.

 

[TheDuke93]

This is tough, because with him, we are in a similar position we were with Palms exactly a year ago, past the deadline with another year on the books. With Palms, I wanted to lock him up for a few years knowing/hoping in a couple years he would be pushed down the line up by what we have in the pipeline. Still be there for that, been around the locker room for a while, vet presence, while also providing the young guys a cushion to get dropped down a line if they needed it. So much changed from then to a month ago that completely made all mean nothing, so with Subban I'd wait.

But if we are out of it at the deadline next year, and he is still playing at this level, I'd keep him and throw him a couple years to just stay there until a better option forces him down the line up, but he is still contributing on and off the ice. Obviously what he wants as far as term and money goes can make this a no brainer in either direction, but I'd lean towards it hurting a little bit rather than a take it or there is the door offer.

Yeah I feel the same way if term and money make sense you extend him if he wants to be here. Everyone seems to love the guy and he's obviously great for the community. I think Hamilton is the only D that would be worth going after but he's going to get paid. LW I think there's really only Schwartz as a true top six guy worth spending money on but his injury history is sketchy. Saad, Hoffman and Tatar I would only give short deal to and I'm not sure if any of them move the needle.

 

[TheDuke93]

I'm not opposed to bringing Palmieri back, but he wants term, so he'll test the market first. Maybe if he doesn't get 6 or 7 years, he'll come back to NJ for five. I don't think a veteran goalscorer is signing for less than five years unless they're way over the hill.



Yeah, absolutely, if Subban plays well next season I would sign him for a few more years for a reasonable AAV. Even if we luck out and draft Brandt Clarke, we'll have plenty of room on the right side.

Palms I wouldn't be opposed to bringing back but it would also have to be under the assumption that he would have an ENTIRELY different role and expectations then before and I don't see him agreeing to that.