Detroit Redwings Downfall

[nbwingsfan]

Not really about whether he is “right” or not in my opinion. It’s great he wants to win, but should a guy who himself isn’t exactly performing great himself be shifting focus to the front office instead of what’s happening on the ice?

It’s not that he’s wrong. It’s just not the most “professional” of mindsets for a captain.

And before I hear about how “he was just being honest”. Yes, I know. And that’s great. But being honest does not make one immune from criticism for the content of said honesty.

He’s loading a ton onto the FO just in that one quote. Saying they didn’t “gain any momentum” and “were down about it” for the remainder of the year in terms of not being aggressive at the deadline. So their attitudes would have been better if they had made a move or two? Is team “attitude” not largely Larkin’s responsibility (along with the coaches) as the leader?

I mean he did also say he needs to be better himself

 

[theVladiator]

Interesting presser.

On Larkin, I think it was pretty much the same thing that was said many times here. Because it's obvious. When Larkin can look Steve in the eye and honestly say that every player on the team did everything they could to win, in every game, he can demand help. Seems like Todd agrees the team isn't there yet. Also, Larkin may have made a mistake, but who hasn't. No need to blow it out of proportion, just focus on getting the most out of the next season.

On Walman's "no and no", interesting that the second "no" means SY still doesn't regret that trade. And I imagine the reporter's face was like "wtf?", which prompted Steve to say a few more words, namely that some things "he doesn't want to share". Alludes to us not having the full story on Walman's departure.

 

[Fatass]

Needs to be a big offseason for Yzerman. His club is in an extremely difficult division. Leafs, Panthers, Lightning are all really good and experienced. Habs, Sens are young and on the rise after tasting the playoffs. Sabres can’t be bad forever, can they? There is honestly only one club in their division the Wings could, as their club stands, feel confident they are better than, Boston.

 

[Dotter]

Sounds to me like the owners and Yzerman had a long sit down pre-interview meeting and discussed what everyone here calls the "Yzerplan". I think ownership decided they wanted to steer away from Ken Holland's poor drafting and spending draft/prospects style, and build through the draft. I think they have a clear timeline.

I think Yzerman got FOMO and tried going 'outside' the plan by attempting to sign Stamkos, and ownership shut that shit right down!

I think Yzerman has a long leash because he is doing exactly what ownership wants; build through the draft. The short term UFA signings are here just to keep DRWs close to a bubble to sell tickets. Larkin called it out. Yzerman shut him down.

If you listen to the presser, Yzerman seemed very comfortable in regards to his job security and what ownership expects of him. They are probably happy with him.

I also think Yzerman's good drafting moved up the timeline further than they (ownership) expected.

Just my speculation like everyone else has in this thread.

Keep your ear close to the ground and you can hear the buffalo coming.

 

[Artaud]

Keep your ear close to the ground and you can hear the buffalo coming.

Good to know you've finally come to grasp that Detroit is heading towards a Buffalo-style infinite rebuild...

 

[Dotter]

Good to know you've finally come to grasp that Detroit is heading towards a Buffalo-style infinite rebuild...

Sabres have some good players tho. I like both Benson and Peterka.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Demidov was a second overall talent fwiw. That’s where he ended on consensus scout opinion. He and Dave Reinbacher aren’t the same. Obviously nothing is a guarantee but I think Demidov projects higher than you give him credit for.

By the same token I think Raymond projects higher than you give him credit for. 80 points as a 22 year old is no small feat and by no means was this a year where everything went right for him or the team. I think it's ridiculous to call a guy who has been leading his team in scoring two years in a row a "complementary piece". Complementary to whom?

As for Demidov, kid looks skilled and I won't hold it against him too much being thrown into the fire. That said, brakes might need to be pumped on the whole "Montreal has their superstar" talk.

 

[Czechboy]

I'm a huge fan of the world's. Kasper vs Raymond and Ed right now!

Even crazier.. Kasper is winning. Austria is up 2-1 with 5 left.

 

[Czechboy]

Sweden won in the end 3 goals in final 5. Kasper looked good. I'm not Ed played. I assume he did.. if not, the Czechs will gladly take him.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Sweden won in the end 3 goals in final 5. Kasper looked good. I'm not Ed played. I assume he did.. if not, the Czechs will gladly take him.

I'm a huge fan of the world's. Kasper vs Raymond and Ed right now!

Even crazier.. Kasper is winning. Austria is up 2-1 with 5 left.

Austria in recent years is a sneakily better team right now than I think people would expect based on their junior results and NHL level players

 

[viceroy]

Yeah trade him to MTL, at least he's going to taste what playoff look like.

Dach + 1st 2025 + 1st 2025+ a prospect.

No thanks. Guy seems to crater when games start to matter.

The one thing I'd call Yzerman out on is a goalie. Get a real goalie man..

I thought Augustine and Cossa were all stars. Fowler, the Habs guy that many DRW fans said was inferior, is looking mighty good in these AHL playoffs. Only problem if he wins a Calder how then do you keep him off the Habs next season?

Have an extended family member who was a Wings prospect and in his NHL debut said Larkin was just a total ass. Completely ignored him in the locker room and the fact it was his NHL debut.

Maybe that's why he's Yzerman's guy. SY had a bit of a reputation of being a dick back in the day as well. Larry Murphy had quite the tale about Yzerman's attitude back then.

I've been critical of Nick Suzuki in the past. Didn't feel he was playing to where he could be and doubted his ability to become a real number one.

The Athletic reader are ya?

Ottawa/Montreal regression is also fully in the cards.

Hope your team does better. Don't just stand around wishing other teams fail.

But hey, if hating on Detroit helps you cope, I get it.

Why would the Habs need to cope? I don't know if you've been keeping up with current events but MTL made the playoffs this season after 3 years on the outside.

View attachment 1024754

Don't know about you guys but I put zero stock in these homebrew rating sites.

The Atlantic Division is Brutal
• Tampa, Toronto, Boston, and now Florida are powerhouses; Ottawa, Buffalo, and Montreal are also rebuilding and jockeying for the same window.

Boston? I don't think you need to worry about them for a bit.

Yes Demidov performed better in KHL than Kasper did in SHL.
Keeping in mind, SHL usually is harder on young players than KHL.

Really? The KHL has quite the reputation with its kids, especially those that refuse to sign extensions.

Now Kasper did one year in the AHL to adapt better to the North American style.
While Montreal could do the same, I don't think they will with Demidov.

Yeah, no way no how does Demidov go to the A.

I do think Demidov will be better offensively than Kasper in terms of production, but will his full game be so much better than Kasper that it would offset how Kasper will be better defensively?

I really like Kasper's game, what I've seen of it but just FYI Demidov's pretty solid defensively. It's one thing he had much better than Michkov.

This season Ottawa had the most points and better end, then Montreal looks like they are closer to their long term solutions which have potential to be better than Ottawa. Then Detroit has the pieces if they develop to as a team be better than both.

Dunno about that. DRW has some nice pieces but appears to have some big holes. The Habs need RD and a 2C but we have Mailloux, Reinbacher and Konyushkov for RD and Hage, Kapanen and Beck as future Centres.

There is no "superstar" on Montreal, Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo or Boston.

I think Hutson and Demidov are superstars to be and I'd argue Suzuki is one. Nick's one of the top Centres in the league and the stats and metrics prove it.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

No thanks. Guy seems to crater when games start to matter.



I thought Augustine and Cossa were all stars. Fowler, the Habs guy that many DRW fans said was inferior, is looking mighty good in these AHL playoffs. Only problem if he wins a Calder how then do you keep him off the Habs next season?



Maybe that's why he's Yzerman's guy. SY had a bit of a reputation of being a dick back in the day as well. Larry Murphy had quite the tale about Yzerman's attitude back then.



The Athletic reader are ya?



Hope your team does better. Don't just stand around wishing other teams fail.



Why would the Habs need to cope? I don't know if you've been keeping up with current events but MTL made the playoffs this season after 3 years on the outside.



Don't know about you guys but I put zero stock in these homebrew rating sites.



Boston? I don't think you need to worry about them for a bit.



Really? The KHL has quite the reputation with its kids, especially those that refuse to sign extensions.



Yeah, no way no how does Demidov go to the A.



I really like Kasper's game, what I've seen of it but just FYI Demidov's pretty solid defensively. It's one thing he had much better than Michkov.



Dunno about that. DRW has some nice pieces but appears to have some big holes. The Habs need RD and a 2C but we have Mailloux, Reinbacher and Konyushkov for RD and Hage, Kapanen and Beck as future Centres.



I think Hutson and Demidov are superstars to be and I'd argue Suzuki is one. Nick's one of the top Centres in the league and the stats and metrics prove it.

Pastrnak isn't a superstar? What planet is that guy on?

 

[EpochLink]

Seriously, page 192?

 

[FissionFire]

The difference between where the Habs currently are and the Wings is the Habs drafted an elite #1 D. They have Hutson. The Wings don’t have that level of D man. Seider is great, but isn’t the dynamic play driver that Hutson is. ASP might be that guy for the Wings. Excited to see what he can do next year.

Hutson isn’t an elite 1D. He is an elite offensive D. There is a huge difference. He was actually quite awful defensively going by the numbers. If you look at his zone starts he also rarely gets put out in the defensive end and plays almost no PK. He’s basically far below replacement level on defense but elite on offense. That’s not an elite 1D, that’s Mike Green.

https://preview.redd.it/svuzm6pyuaze1.jpg?width=1928&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47ae1d6ff38fdaa583a623abc0d45d3cfa2addc8

 

[MoneyManny]

Hutson isn’t an elite 1D. He is an elite offensive D. There is a huge difference. He was actually quite awful defensively going by the numbers. If you look at his zone starts he also rarely gets put out in the defensive end and plays almost no PK. He’s basically far below replacement level on defense but elite on offense. That’s not an elite 1D, that’s Mike Green.

https://preview.redd.it/svuzm6pyuaze1.jpg?width=1928&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47ae1d6ff38fdaa583a623abc0d45d3cfa2addc8

Elite offensive D in his rookie season. No reason to think he completely plateaud at 20 years old and can't polish his D game enough to take the next step in a natural defenseman progression curve.

 

[FMichael]

No thanks. Guy seems to crater when games start to matter.



I thought Augustine and Cossa were all stars. Fowler, the Habs guy that many DRW fans said was inferior, is looking mighty good in these AHL playoffs. Only problem if he wins a Calder how then do you keep him off the Habs next season?



Maybe that's why he's Yzerman's guy. SY had a bit of a reputation of being a dick back in the day as well. Larry Murphy had quite the tale about Yzerman's attitude back then.



The Athletic reader are ya?



Hope your team does better. Don't just stand around wishing other teams fail.



Why would the Habs need to cope? I don't know if you've been keeping up with current events but MTL made the playoffs this season after 3 years on the outside.



Don't know about you guys but I put zero stock in these homebrew rating sites.



Boston? I don't think you need to worry about them for a bit.



Really? The KHL has quite the reputation with its kids, especially those that refuse to sign extensions.



Yeah, no way no how does Demidov go to the A.



I really like Kasper's game, what I've seen of it but just FYI Demidov's pretty solid defensively. It's one thing he had much better than Michkov.



Dunno about that. DRW has some nice pieces but appears to have some big holes. The Habs need RD and a 2C but we have Mailloux, Reinbacher and Konyushkov for RD and Hage, Kapanen and Beck as future Centres.



I think Hutson and Demidov are superstars to be and I'd argue Suzuki is one. Nick's one of the top Centres in the league and the stats and metrics prove it.

Where might one find this riveting tale that Murf has about Stevie Y ?

 

[FissionFire]

Elite offensive D in his rookie season. No reason to think he completely plateaud at 20 years old and can't polish his D game enough to take the next step in a natural defenseman progression curve.

Totally agree that he can do that. I was simply responding to the person saying he was already an “elite #1 D” which he clearly is not yet. His starting point after this year is Mike Green basically. He can round out into a true two-way elite like Bourque (very unlikely), turn into an elite offensive D with solid defense (Makar, prime Karlsson), never quite develop into anything better than average at best on defense (Coffey), be adequate but below average (Housley), or just stay what he is and ever really turn into more than an overmatched defender in his own zone (Green).

Personally I think he rounds into the Coffey/Housley tier at his best. His offense will get him some Norris consideration but I don’t think he will ever be a true elite 2-way 1D. I think someone like Letang is his likely ceiling.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Totally agree that he can do that. I was simply responding to the person saying he was already an “elite #1 D” which he clearly is not yet. His starting point after this year is Mike Green basically. He can round out into a true two-way elite like Bourque (very unlikely), turn into an elite offensive D with solid defense (Makar, prime Karlsson), never quite develop into anything better than average at best on defense (Coffey), be adequate but below average (Housley), or just stay what he is and ever really turn into more than an overmatched defender in his own zone (Green).

Personally I think he rounds into the Coffey/Housley tier at his best. His offense will get him some Norris consideration but I don’t think he will ever be a true elite 2-way 1D. I think someone like Letang is his likely ceiling.

He will be somewhere in between Q. Hughes and Fox as a D man in the NHL, which means he will be a top 7 NHL D man sometime during the 2027-28 season.

I don't know about you, but being in the top 7 of roughly 200 players at your position
is elite.

You realize Housley and Coffey are HOF D-Men right?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Sounds to me like the owners and Yzerman had a long sit down pre-interview meeting and discussed what everyone here calls the "Yzerplan". I think ownership decided they wanted to steer away from Ken Holland's poor drafting and spending draft/prospects style, and build through the draft. I think they have a clear timeline.

I think Yzerman got FOMO and tried going 'outside' the plan by attempting to sign Stamkos, and ownership shut that shit right down!

I think Yzerman has a long leash because he is doing exactly what ownership wants; build through the draft. The short term UFA signings are here just to keep DRWs close to a bubble to sell tickets. Larkin called it out. Yzerman shut him down.

If you listen to the presser, Yzerman seemed very comfortable in regards to his job security and what ownership expects of him. They are probably happy with him.

I also think Yzerman's good drafting moved up the timeline further than they (ownership) expected.

Just my speculation like everyone else has in this thread.

Keep your ear close to the ground and you can hear the buffalo coming.

Wings fans are hilarious. There are absolutely no excuses for not making the PO the last two years, other than SY pig headedness in not being willing to part ways with
a '26 1st round pick and a prospect to get a guy like Brandon Carlo (partially retained to boot...lol.) at this years deadline, not to mention his Tarasenko signing and Walman trade fiasco.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Hutson isn’t an elite 1D. He is an elite offensive D. There is a huge difference. He was actually quite awful defensively going by the numbers. If you look at his zone starts he also rarely gets put out in the defensive end and plays almost no PK. He’s basically far below replacement level on defense but elite on offense. That’s not an elite 1D, that’s Mike Green.

https://preview.redd.it/svuzm6pyuaze1.jpg?width=1928&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47ae1d6ff38fdaa583a623abc0d45d3cfa2addc8

He played half of the season that just ended as a 20 years old rookie and had elite numbers after the 4 nation break. What are you about?

 

[SirKillalot]

Really? The KHL has quite the reputation with its kids, especially those that refuse to sign extensions.

Not in the same way. Or there are similarities.
But, I would say KHL are more open to putting players into their roles quicker, than SHL. Who is more earn yourself up the roster and learn the checking aspects / play few minutes etc.

Dunno about that. DRW has some nice pieces but appears to have some big holes. The Habs need RD and a 2C but we have Mailloux, Reinbacher and Konyushkov for RD and Hage, Kapanen and Beck as future Centres.

Yes I think Montreal is closer to finding their pieces in terms of getting them into the lineup.
Question is will it be good enough, that waits to be seen. I think they have lots of good pieces and it can get there.

Same is with Detroit. It's per now more uncertainties, but they also have to get there to first be able to judge it. So yes they have more pieces of need right now, with many than can end up filling those spots.

I believe both Montreal and Detroit will have better chances at a Stanley Cup than Ottawa, unless Ottawa re-tool at some point after several more failed attempts to win.

I think Hutson and Demidov are superstars to be and I'd argue Suzuki is one. Nick's one of the top Centres in the league and the stats and metrics prove it.

Demidov maybe will be. Hutson could be similar to Karlsson, very mixed opinions on him because his defense lacks qualities and unless he develop that he will be Montreal hyped and "superstar" to some and a good offensive defenseman with flaws to others.

Suzuki is not more of a star than Larkin was and is. He need to do better to become that. He will be 26 next season, so there could be some improvement still, but if not. He won't be a super star. A star yes. A Montreal hype yes. But, not league wide and international superstar. But, I could be wrong and he can become it, though there is bigger chances he won't. A solid respected player I do think.

Pastrnak isn't a superstar? What planet is that guy on?

True, Pastrnak is actually a superstar.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Wings fans are hilarious. There are absolutely no excuses for not making the PO the last two years, other than SY pig headedness in not being willing to part ways with
a '26 1st round pick and a prospect to get a guy like Brandon Carlo (partially retained to boot...lol.) at this years deadline, not to mention his Tarasenko signing and Walman trade fiasco.

Thanks captain hindsight. Can you do me a favor and read me last week's lottery numbers too?

Do you truly believe the Wings were one Brandon Carlo away from making a huge splash in the playoffs? Maybe a Scott Laughton? Kuzmenko?

Kick rocks. All that would've done is made sure the Wings were out a first round pick (and possibly more) after being destroyed in 4 games by the Capitals, and more than likely letting Carlo walk in free agency.

Walman clearly did something to upset management, which is why he was traded WITH a pick for nothing at all. Sending a message that if you f*** up or f*** around in that locker room, you will be shipped out and made to look like an asshole to boot.


Oh, you're a Bruins fan. Sorry about that, welcome to the beginning of your guys rebuild! Where's the "Boston Bruins downfall" thread?

 

[SirKillalot]

Hutson isn’t an elite 1D. He is an elite offensive D. There is a huge difference. He was actually quite awful defensively going by the numbers. If you look at his zone starts he also rarely gets put out in the defensive end and plays almost no PK. He’s basically far below replacement level on defense but elite on offense. That’s not an elite 1D, that’s Mike Green.

Well for now he is a one hit wonder in that regard.
For him be considered Elite he need to show consistency for several years first.

 

[Revansky]

If Kasper can develop into a 2C and produce around 60–70 pts, you need another top player, and that offence doesn't look half bad if you replace Tarasenko with a 60-70 pts winger. It would be average around 15-16 instead of 22th. A lot of pieces can fill the bottom 6 with Rasmussen, Copp and Compher. Danielson and MNB should be top 9 players coming in the next two to three years. Substracting at least two of Holl, Petry and Chiarot by competent defencemen would make a world of difference. ASP and Wallinder should get and make a great top 4 with Edvinsson and Seider. The window should open for DET in the next two years to be a competitive team and last as long as Larkin stay healthy and productive. They will be a playoff team but to get to contender status i feel like they need another star either in net or on offence. I think the D will be top 5-10 at some point in the next few years though.

 

[viceroy]

Where might one find this riveting tale that Murf has about Stevie Y ?

I'm sure if you deep Google search it you'll find the info. Anywho the story is basically that Yzerman was very clique-ish and once made fun of Larry Murphy within earshot whilst Murph was holding court with the press. He called him out on it and that Stevie better give him some respect angrily in front of reporters. I guess it was easy for Yzerman to crap on lessers but to Murphy, future Hall-of-Famer Larry Murphy? He wasn't going to take it. And Stevie Y didn't reply, not even a peep.