Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Shaman464]

Within the same amount of points as Suzuki in his first season. He can develop into something similar. Maybe better, maybe a tad below. It waits to be seen.

Kasper had 4 less points in 6 more games. Suzuki has 0.58ppg and Kasper was at 0.48. Kasper also played on a much better team. Montreal in Suzuki's first year had Tomas Tatar as their best player with 61 points in 68 games and the team finished with 71 points. Suzuki had a better rookie year and its not close.

 

[Dotter]

lol, your citing analysis from 2 years ago, a lot of the time they just turn out to be exaggerated. Look at what scouts were saying about Lafrenière for example before draft.

You’ve been doing the exact same thing for 200 pages ,
and wings fans agree for the most part.
Best take your own advice and sit this one out, sport.

Except Nate Danielson is forging out a more consistent, linear development curve than Marco Kasper did at the same stage. And Kasper—since you seem to forget—was one of the hottest rookies after the coaching change, proving doubters wrong in real-time. Danielson’s already showing the same trajectory, just more polished at this point in his development.

Marco Kasper – Rookie Heat After Coaching Change (2024–25 NHL Season):
After Derek Lalonde was replaced mid-season, Kasper found his stride.

Post-4 Nations stats (and stepping up since Copp's injury)

• Total Games: 27
• Goals: 10
• Assists: 7
• Points: 17
• Average Ice Time: ~17 minutes per game
• This stretch puts him on a 0.63 points-per-game pace, which is solid middle-six production as a rookie 20/21 year old.

Impact: Became one of Detroit’s most consistent forwards, bringing that gritty, game-changing presence people doubted he had.

Nate Danielson – Current AHL Development (2024–25 Grand Rapids Griffins):

• Games Played: 71
• Points: 39 (12 goals, 27 assists)
• +/-: +4
• Role: Top-6 center, 2-way duties, playing special teams.

EliteProspects & Dobber Prospects both cite his playmaking, defensive responsibility, and high hockey IQ as standing out at pro level already.

Danielson’s curve is more linear and polished than Kasper’s was—and Kasper ended up torching the league post-coaching change with 17 points in 28 games. Danielson’s on pace to follow that same arc, already holding his own in a top-6 AHL role at 19/20 years old.

So if you’re banking on him failing, you might want to sit this one out, Chief, because these guys are proving their worth step by step—not in overhyped projections, but in real ice-time and real results.

This isn’t a feelings forum—bring facts or sit the bench, rookie.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Within the same amount of points as Suzuki in his first season. He can develop into something similar. Maybe better, maybe a tad below. It waits to be seen.

Sure, maybe better, maybe a tad below or maybe a lot below Suzuki. The latter probably more likely but we will see.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Except Nate Danielson is forging out a more consistent, linear development curve than Marco Kasper did at the same stage. And Kasper—since you seem to forget—was one of the hottest rookies after the coaching change, proving doubters wrong in real-time. Danielson’s already showing the same trajectory, just more polished at this point in his development.

Marco Kasper – Rookie Heat After Coaching Change (2024–25 NHL Season):
After Derek Lalonde was replaced mid-season, Kasper found his stride.

Post-4 Nations stats (and stepping up since Copp's injury)

• Total Games: 27
• Goals: 10
• Assists: 7
• Points: 17
• Average Ice Time: ~17 minutes per game
• This stretch puts him on a 0.63 points-per-game pace, which is solid middle-six production as a rookie 20/21 year old.

Impact: Became one of Detroit’s most consistent forwards, bringing that gritty, game-changing presence people doubted he had.

Nate Danielson – Current AHL Development (2024–25 Grand Rapids Griffins):

• Games Played: 71
• Points: 39 (12 goals, 27 assists)
• +/-: +4
• Role: Top-6 center, 2-way duties, playing special teams.

EliteProspects & Dobber Prospects both cite his playmaking, defensive responsibility, and high hockey IQ as standing out at pro level already.

Danielson’s curve is more linear and polished than Kasper’s was—and Kasper ended up torching the league post-coaching change with 17 points in 28 games. Danielson’s on pace to follow that same arc, already holding his own in a top-6 AHL role at 19/20 years old.

So if you’re banking on him failing, you might want to sit this one out, Chief, because these guys are proving their worth step by step—not in overhyped projections, but in real ice-time and real results.

This isn’t a feelings forum—bring facts or sit the bench, rookie.

Like I said start taking your own advice, and stop with the condescending nature, at the end every post dude. It just makes you look bad, start responding without being condescending, maybe you’ll get taken seriously.

You’re even called out in your own forum for exaggerating. Guess we have a different opinion of “what torching the league is”.

 

[Artaud]

and Kasper ended up torching the league post-coaching change with 17 points in 28 games.

I see Detroit is so devoid of offensive talent that pedestrian production in a cherry-picked 28 game sample is considered torching the league.

Danielson is producing about as much as Florian Xhekaj, a 4th round pick from the Habs from that same draft, and the latter is generally seen as a future 4th liner. If the future of your top line hinges on Danielson, it's safe to say the Yzerplan should be Yzerpanned.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Marco Kasper had a solid 27 games, so that means Nate Danielson's 0.549 AHL PPG playing first line puts him right on track to be a high-end two-way NHL 2nd line center. Makes sense. Nyquist is also the next Zetterberg, when will people learn...

 

[Dotter]

Like I said start taking your own advice, and stop with the condescending nature, at the end every post dude. It just makes you look bad, start responding without being condescending, maybe you’ll get taken seriously.

You’re even called out in your own forum for exaggerating. Guess we have a different opinion of “what torching the league is”.

Funny thing—when the facts hit too hard, suddenly it’s the tone that’s the problem. If calling out weak takes with receipts is condescending, I’m good with that. Respect’s earned, not handed out because someone feels slighted.

And if I’m getting called out? Cool. Means I’m not just blending in with the echo chamber.

Let’s keep it simple—bring something solid to the table, and I’ll match that energy. Until then, take it however you need to.

 

[Dotter]

I see Detroit is so devoid of offensive talent that pedestrian production in a cherry-picked 28 game sample is considered torching the league.

Danielson is producing about as much as Florian Xhekaj, a 4th round pick from the Habs from that same draft, and the latter is generally seen as a future 4th liner. If the future of your top line hinges on Danielson, it's safe to say the Yzerplan should be Yzerpanned.

Pedestrian? 17 points in 28 games as a rookie, post-coaching change, as a two-way player, playing real minutes against some top NHL talent? If that's pedestrian, I’d hate to see your standard for ‘elite.’ And cherry-picked? Nah—that’s called progression over the stretch that actually matters.

Now let’s talk Danielson vs. Xhekaj, since you reached for that one: Danielson’s playing top-6, driving play, and being groomed as a 2C/1C option with special teams responsibilities. Xhekaj? Bottom-six projection, energy guy at best, and even Habs fans don’t pretend otherwise. Production’s just the surface—roles matter.

If you think the Yzerplan hinges solely on Danielson, you haven’t been paying attention. Kasper, Buchelnikov, Raymond, Edvinsson, ASP, Augustine, Cossa—you know, the rest of the pipeline that’s stacking depth and top-end talent? The kind of roster build that wins long-term, not just highlight reels.

But hey, if hating on Detroit helps you cope, I get it. Just try harder next time, because this take? Yzerpanned.

 

[SirKillalot]

Kasper had 4 less points in 6 more games. Suzuki has 0.58ppg and Kasper was at 0.48. Kasper also played on a much better team. Montreal in Suzuki's first year had Tomas Tatar as their best player with 61 points in 68 games and the team finished with 71 points. Suzuki had a better rookie year and its not close.

So he had projection of about 7 more points for the whole season in the first year.
Its better but its not a AINEC situation.

Now Suzuki has continued his development into a point per game player last two seasons.
Kasper could do the same. As he was a year older this year than Suzuki, he has about three seasons to do that to be equal.

Sure, maybe better, maybe a tad below or maybe a lot below Suzuki. The latter probably more likely but we will see.

Everything below is more likely until something better happens. Just don't believe in always posting the worst case scenario playing and point wise every time. You don't go to school or work projecting yourself to do the bare minimum every time do you?

 

[Shaman464]

Pedestrian? 17 points in 28 games as a rookie, post-coaching change, as a two-way player, playing real minutes against some top NHL talent? If that's pedestrian, I’d hate to see your standard for ‘elite.’ And cherry-picked? Nah—that’s called progression over the stretch that actually matters.

Now let’s talk Danielson vs. Xhekaj, since you reached for that one: Danielson’s playing top-6, driving play, and being groomed as a 2C/1C option with special teams responsibilities. Xhekaj? Bottom-six projection, energy guy at best, and even Habs fans don’t pretend otherwise. Production’s just the surface—roles matter.

If you think the Yzerplan hinges solely on Danielson, you haven’t been paying attention. Kasper, Buchelnikov, Raymond, Edvinsson, ASP, Augustine, Cossa—you know, the rest of the pipeline that’s stacking depth and top-end talent? The kind of roster build that wins long-term, not just highlight reels.

But hey, if hating on Detroit helps you cope, I get it. Just try harder next time, because this take? Yzerpanned.

4 rookies had a better PPG over their whole season than Kasper had in that 28 game period and were all the same age or younger than him. That is what I would call elite.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

So he had projection of about 7 more points for the whole season in the first year.
Its better but its not a AINEC situation.

Now Suzuki has continued his development into a point per game player last two seasons.
Kasper could do the same. As he was a year older this year than Suzuki, he has about three seasons to do that to be equal.


Everything below is more likely until something better happens. Just don't believe in always posting the worst case scenario playing and point wise every time. You don't go to school or work projecting yourself to do the bare minimum every time do you?

We have a long way to go with Kaspar before we can make comparisons to Suzuki's development. Suzuki has been on a consistent upward trajectory since he broke into the league. He is now a ~90pt player and may even break that mark next season as the Habs as a whole get better and better.

 

[SirKillalot]

Marco Kasper had a solid 27 games, so that means Nate Danielson's 0.549 AHL PPG playing first line puts him right on track to be a high-end two-way NHL 2nd line center. Makes sense. Nyquist is also the next Zetterberg, when will people learn...

Idk why one would have to explain this to a what looks to be Blackhawk fan, but development and development timeline isn't always about points, neither for the player or the franchise.

 

[Shaman464]

So he had projection of about 7 more points for the whole season in the first year.
Its better but its not a AINEC situation.

Now Suzuki has continued his development into a point per game player last two seasons.
Kasper could do the same. As he was a year older this year than Suzuki, he has about three seasons to do that to be equal.


Everything below is more likely until something better happens. Just don't believe in always posting the worst case scenario playing and point wise every time. You don't go to school or work projecting yourself to do the bare minimum every time do you?

Yes, its AINEC because Suzuki did it on a substantially worse team than Kasper. Again the team Suzuki scored more points on in less games best scorer was Tatar with 61 points. The Wings are a much better team this season than the Habs were in Suzuki's rookie season. Suzuki also did it playing 1 pro game prior to that season.

 

[Dotter]

4 rookies had a better PPG over their whole season than Kasper had in that 28 game period and were all the same age or younger than him. That is what I would call elite.

Sure, let’s take a stroll through Kasper’s prospect thread and see what people were saying before his AHL playoff stint. I remember going to Griffins games and walking away disappointed—no one was calling him a future 2nd-line center back then.

Now flip that—when I watch Danielson with the Griffins, he stands out as the most impactful player on the ice more often than not. His tools are obvious, his work ethic speaks for itself, and his 200-foot game? Never in question.

Guaranteed most of these HFboards armchair "critics" never watched him play.

 

[SirKillalot]

Yes, its AINEC because Suzuki did it on a substantially worse team than Kasper. Again the team Suzuki scored more points on in less games best scorer was Tatar with 61 points.

And?
It doesn't matter as much as you think.
Suzuki had 14 power play points.
Kasper had 4 power play points.

So Kasper had 6 more even strength points than Suzuki while playing more than half the season in the bottom six. Let's say it would have been 4 if they played even games.
If Kasper played top six all year then it could be somewhat of an argument.

Suzuki had a slightly better season.

 

[Fatass]

I think its more overall team. Seider can be the scoring 1D if he doesn't have to play for both d-men at the ice.

Larkin can score at 1C pace but he need to be better and the team need to be better for it to happen.
Of the younger ones, Kasper can get there. Danielson has potential.

But yes, in general its not a "sure pick" of who will be the guy right now.
They just have to build a good team and see if anyone develop into that role or if one have to go outside and find that like Vegas did with Eichel.

Vegas was able to get an elite 1C via trade and an elite 1D in free agency. The Eichel trade was very risky but obviously, in retrospect, worth the risk. Yzerman is for sure beating the bushes looking for these two players but they rarely come available, unless they have a risk attached.

 

[Dotter]

Vegas was able to get an elite 1C via trade and an elite 1D in free agency. The Eichel trade was very risky but obviously, in retrospect, worth the risk. Yzerman is for sure beating the bushes looking for these two players but they rarely come available, unless they have a risk attached.

Marner is going to be a UFA. You build around elite wingers with formidable two-way centers (depth) as long as you have good PMD to help drive the play forward. Edvinsson and Seider (and possibly ASP) will be critical with that.

You don't need a McKinnon. Eichel is nice, but he is closer to a 'Larkin' than to a 'McKinnon' level. If Yzerman wins the Marner sweepstakes, then I would argue goaltending is the most lacking area that needs addressed.

 

[Fatass]

Sure, let’s take a stroll through Kasper’s prospect thread and see what people were saying before his AHL playoff stint. I remember going to Griffins games and walking away disappointed—no one was calling him a future 2nd-line center back then.

Now flip that—when I watch Danielson with the Griffins, he stands out as the most impactful player on the ice more often than not. His tools are obvious, his work ethic speaks for itself, and his 200-foot game? Never in question.

Guaranteed most of these HFboards armchair "critics" never watched him play.

How many elite centres are in the minors in the year 21? Danielson might develop into a great top two centre. It’s highly unlikely though. Not bad though if he’s a fantastic 2/3 C in a few years. Imo Yzerman’s needs to use a prospect, like Danielson, and picks to try and get a top centre. That guy will come with risk though.

 

[Fatass]

Marner is going to be a UFA. You build around elite wingers with formidable two-way centers (depth) as long as you have good PMD to help drive the play forward. Edvinsson and Seider (and possibly ASP) will be critical with that.

You don't need a McKinnon. Eichel is nice, but he is closer to a 'Larkin' than to a 'McKinnon' level. If Yzerman wins the Marner sweepstakes, then I would argue goaltending is the most lacking area that needs addressed.

Love to see Yzerman land Marner. Marner is a fantastic player.

 

[Dotter]

How many elite centres are in the minors in the year 21? Danielson might develop into a great top two centre. It’s highly unlikely though. Not bad though if he’s a fantastic 2/3 C in a few years. Imo Yzerman’s needs to use a prospect, like Danielson, and picks to try and get a top centre. That guy will come with risk though.

Wings have no elite centers. I think Danielson's upside is Larkin. His floor is 3C if everything goes wrong.

Again, my point is you don't need elite centers if you have elite wingers and excellent breakout D on the back end. Wings already have that in Seider and Edvinsson (and possibly ASP). Also, AJ has been holding his own in that regard as well -- still in development stages.

 

[Fatass]

Wings have no elite centers. I think Danielson's upside is Larkin. His floor is 3C if everything goes wrong.

Again, my point is you don't need elite centers if you have elite wingers and excellent breakout D on the back end. Wings already have that in Seider and Edvinsson (and possibly ASP). Also, AJ has been holding his own in that regard as well -- still in development stages.

Certainly teams make the playoffs without elite scoring 1C’ and 1D’s. It’s very rare those clubs go deep and win a Cup. If that is to happen the stars need to align. Their current centres have to play beyond great and their D need to play above their usual level too. Plus, they need their goalie to get hot.
So yes, teams can be successful in those circumstances but it’s unusual. Hence the Wings current plight.

 

[Dotter]

Certainly teams make the playoffs without elite scoring 1C’ and 1D’s. It’s very rare those clubs go deep and win a Cup. If that is to happen the stars need to align. Their current centres have to play beyond great and their D need to play above their usual level too. Plus, they need their goalie to get hot.
So yes, teams can be successful in those circumstances but it’s unusual. Hence the Wings current plight.

Fair, but let’s not forget — neither Zetterberg nor Datsyuk hit 100 points. Datsyuk came close during his peak years. Larkin, on the other hand, has only paced for about 82 points at best, with injuries holding him back. His career high is 79 points.

The Wings need another 1-2 punch like the Zetterberg era. Larkin and... who? That’s the real question. Danielson probably has the highest upside, but Kasper’s no slouch either. The answer might come from outside. Yzerman has both trade chips and cap space to make something happen.

That said, I don’t see this team having what I’d call “elite” center talent—unless they land the #1 pick next season. There are a few promising names in 2026, but elite? That depends on your definition.

I’m not even sure James Hagens fits that mold if Yzerman ends up picking #2 and available.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Kasper had 4 less points in 6 more games. Suzuki has 0.58ppg and Kasper was at 0.48. Kasper also played on a much better team. Montreal in Suzuki's first year had Tomas Tatar as their best player with 61 points in 68 games and the team finished with 71 points. Suzuki had a better rookie year and its not close.

You’re completely discounting Kasper playing the first half of the season on the. 3rd and 4th lines with players that wish they were half as good as Tatar.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Fair, but let’s not forget — neither Zetterberg nor Datsyuk hit 100 points. Datsyuk came close during his peak years. Larkin, on the other hand, has only paced for about 82 points at best, with injuries holding him back. His career high is 79 points.

The Wings need another 1-2 punch like the Zetterberg era. Larkin and... who? That’s the real question. Danielson probably has the highest upside, but Kasper’s no slouch either. The answer might come from outside. Yzerman has both trade chips and cap space to make something happen.

That said, I don’t see this team having what I’d call “elite” center talent—unless they land the #1 pick next season. There are a few promising names in 2026, but elite? That depends on your definition.

I’m not even sure James Hagens fits that mold if Yzerman ends up picking #2 and available.

If he goes the trade route, then I think some of these guys should be moved on from, depending on who had the poorer track record.

However scouts contracts that are ending, is usually after the draft to July

Kirk Maltby	Pro Scout
Kyle MacKinnon	Pro Scout
Chris Yzerman	Pro Scout
Boyd Gordon	Pro Scout
Brian Flynn	Pro Scout

 

[Artaud]

Now let’s talk Danielson vs. Xhekaj, since you reached for that one: Danielson’s playing top-6, driving play, and being groomed as a 2C/1C option with special teams responsibilities. Xhekaj? Bottom-six projection, energy guy at best, and even Habs fans don’t pretend otherwise. Production’s just the surface—roles matter.

Isn't projection based on results? My point is that you should reconsider your projection of Danielson as a 1C in light of the fact that he's performing (at the same age, in the same league) like a guy who projects as a fourth liner.

I remember Danielson as more of a high floor, low upside pick. Much like MBS this year. I think a valid criticism of the Red Wings is that they have started picking unexciting but safe prospects when they should be swinging for the fences, as they lack proven gamechangers. Arguing that Kasper and Danielson are well on their way to stardom is pure cope at this point.