Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Dotter]

Dotter faces a real Sophie's Choice. Either admit Yzerman completely whiffed on his goals from the free agent/trade standpoint or admit that it was Yzerman's actual plan to draft 15th and 12th for some reason.

I think Yzerman knew keeping Lalonde too long was going to hurt their chances. I think he knowingly put them behind the 8 ball. Why else did he keep Lalonde this long? He should have been fired before the season started.

Like I said, that's on Yzerman.

 

[Kegu]

Y’all Still Recycling Takes?​

I dipped outta this thread for 3 weeks 'cause it was making me dizzy—thought maybe, just maybe, something new would pop up.

Came back… and it’s like y’all hit copy-paste from Page 4 to Page 184. Same tired debates, same lukewarm takes, different page number.

You dipped out for less than 2 weeks and have already posted in this thread 3 times today. You are part of the problem.
Edit* 4 times, you have since posted as i was typing my reply.

 

[Dotter]

You dipped out for less than 2 weeks and have already posted in this thread 3 times today. You are part of the problem.
Edit* 4 times, you have since posted as i was typing my reply.

5 times. Keep up.

 

[Michoulicious]

Dvorak, Anderson, Gallagher, Matheson and Carrier on the Wings instead of Compher, Rasmussen, Tarasenko, Petry, Holl and we are in the playoffs. Kasper, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, Debrincat, Larkin is just as good a young core as Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Hutson, Laine. For the thousandth time, the kids aren’t the issue in Detroit. Quite literally everything else is.

The first big mistake you make is thinking Laine is part of Montreal's core.

What makes Montreal ahead of Detroit's is the fact its core is performing better than Detroit's and it does so at a younger age.

Suzuki is the oldest of Montreal's core at 25 and already has peaked higher than Larkin has at 28.

Caufield is 24 while DeBrincat is 28.

Hutson is 21 while Seider is 24

Slafkovsky is 21 while Raymond is 23.

Only younger piece is Edvinsson at 22 vs Guhle at 23.

ASP and Reinbacher are similar level prospect D and equally aged while being very different stylistically. I had ASP at #5 OA (what a steal) and always have been a fan, so I give the edge to Detroit here, but I can understand people liking a more classic, minute eater, mobile and physical D like Reinbacher... I personally like ASP more.

However I'd personally take Demidov 10/10 over a guy like Kasper... I had Demidov at #2 OA, what a steal.

Future goalies is always tougher to project, but Dobes/Fowler vs Cossa/Augustine is close enough to call it even for me.

If we add to that the fact Montreal has 8 picks in the first 3 rounds of next draft and Detroit has only 4, it is not too hard to infer Montreal is in a way better position to improve its roster in the next few years...

Fact Montreal made the playoffs before Detroit AND has better picks/futures than Detroit at this point in time is a real killer when their rebuild started a few years after Detroit.

Detroit needs to pick a big talent ala Hutson/Kucherov/Point in the later picks or kill it in a trade in a big way to close the gap.

Detroit is in a tough spot in a strong Atlantic that is getting stronger quick.

 

[hardcorehabs]

The first big mistake you make is thinking Laine is part of Montreal's core.

What makes Montreal ahead of Detroit's is the fact its core is performing better than Detroit's and it does so at a younger age.

Suzuki is the oldest of Montreal's core at 25 and already has peaked higher than Larkin has at 28.

Caufield is 24 while DeBrincat is 28.

Hutson is 21 while Seider is 24

Slafkovsky is 21 while Raymond is 23.

Only younger piece is Edvinsson at 22 vs Guhle at 23.

ASP and Reinbacher are similar level prospect D and equally aged while being very different stylistically. I had ASP at #5 OA (what a steal) and always have been a fan, so I give the edge to Detroit here, but I can understand people liking a more classic, minute eater, mobile and physical D like Reinbacher... I personally like ASP more.

However I'd personally take Demidov 10/10 over a guy like Kasper... I had Demidov at #2 OA, what a steal.

Future goalies is always tougher to project, but Dobes/Fowler vs Cossa/Augustine is close enough to call it even for me.

If we add to that the fact Montreal has 8 picks in the first 3 rounds of next draft and Detroit has only 4, it is not too hard to infer Montreal is in a way better position to improve its roster in the next few years...

Fact Montreal made the playoffs before Detroit AND has better picks/futures than Detroit at this point in time is a real killer when their rebuild started a few years after Detroit.

Detroit needs to pick a big talent ala Hutson/Kucherov/Point in the later picks or kill it in a trade in a big way to close the gap.

Detroit is in a tough spot in a strong Atlantic that is getting stronger quick.

This sums is up perfectly. Detroit is a mid team even at peak rebuild in my opinion. Unless they do a big retool.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Raymond and Seider will be more important/better a few years maybe, but certainly Larkin is our best player right now and has been these past handful plus seasons.

Larkin missed 14 games in last year's 2023/2024 season (68 games played and got 69 pts while Raymond played in all 82 games and put up 72 pts) and was injured at the 4 Nations and was certainly not himself and his production noticeably suffered...This idea of "Raymond has outscored him for 2 seasons now and this year by a lot. It's not even close between the two" is quite an interesting take you have...

Health is part of a player’s value. Part of why I view Seider as a better, more valuable player than Larkin. Raymond imo has also been better the last two seasons, although that’s more debatable I guess (C vs W etc). This season I thought Debrincat was better than Larkin as well.

ASP and Reinbacher are similar level prospect D

That’s a wild take tbh.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

I think Yzerman knew keeping Lalonde too long was going to hurt their chances. I think he knowingly put them behind the 8 ball. Why else did he keep Lalonde this long? He should have been fired before the season started.

Like I said, that's on Yzerman.

If that was what he was intentionally doing, then why on Earth should he stay the GM of Detroit if he was purposefully trying to thumb his nose at the efforts of the players in the room to win (in a non-tank year like 19-20)?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Larkin 4 Zibanejad e5

 

[Artaud]

The first big mistake you make is thinking Laine is part of Montreal's core.

What makes Montreal ahead of Detroit's is the fact its core is performing better than Detroit's and it does so at a younger age.

Suzuki is the oldest of Montreal's core at 25 and already has peaked higher than Larkin has at 28.

Caufield is 24 while DeBrincat is 28.

Hutson is 21 while Seider is 24

Slafkovsky is 21 while Raymond is 23.

Only younger piece is Edvinsson at 22 vs Guhle at 23.

ASP and Reinbacher are similar level prospect D and equally aged while being very different stylistically. I had ASP at #5 OA (what a steal) and always have been a fan, so I give the edge to Detroit here, but I can understand people liking a more classic, minute eater, mobile and physical D like Reinbacher... I personally like ASP more.

However I'd personally take Demidov 10/10 over a guy like Kasper... I had Demidov at #2 OA, what a steal.

Future goalies is always tougher to project, but Dobes/Fowler vs Cossa/Augustine is close enough to call it even for me.

If we add to that the fact Montreal has 8 picks in the first 3 rounds of next draft and Detroit has only 4, it is not too hard to infer Montreal is in a way better position to improve its roster in the next few years...

Fact Montreal made the playoffs before Detroit AND has better picks/futures than Detroit at this point in time is a real killer when their rebuild started a few years after Detroit.

Detroit needs to pick a big talent ala Hutson/Kucherov/Point in the later picks or kill it in a trade in a big way to close the gap.

Detroit is in a tough spot in a strong Atlantic that is getting stronger quick.

You said it all and I agree.

I think everyone agrees too. Everyone but a few DRW fans who's copium accounts for the bulk of this thread.

 

[Pavels Dog]

What makes Montreal ahead of Detroit's is the fact its core is performing better than Detroit's and it does so at a younger age.


Caufield is 24 while DeBrincat is 28.

They had almost the exact same season but Montreal is in the playoffs because Caufield is younger?

This jumping through hoops to avoid blaming the parts of Detroit’s roster that are actually to blame is tiresome.
No, it’s not the league’s leading U25 scorer who is to blame because he’s a year or two older than Slafkovsky.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

So this exec brushing off Detroit’s pipeline as lacking a “true gamebreaker” misses the point of what makes a Cup contender.

The 2018-19 St. Louis Blues are the only Cup winner in the salary cap era to win without a legit superstar, aka a game breaker. They're the exception to the rule, not the rule.

1. Detroit Has Depth AND Emerging Gamebreaking Talent:​

• Nate Danielson: A future top-6 center with the kind of two-way game that every playoff team leans on. Maybe not McDavid, but a solid center.

Nothing about Nate Danielson screams top-6 center. At best, he'll be a poor-man's J.T. Compher, as in the very last thing Detroit needs.

• Marco Kasper: NHL-ready grit + skill. The kind of player who changes games physically and chips in offensively—huge playoff impact potential.

Kasper is a capable NHL player who will likely be anchoring the 2nd/3rd lines. Not an elite talent.

• Dmitry Buchelnikov: Now here’s your wild card gamebreaker—electric in Russia, with a lethal shot and creative flair. Not just depth—this kid can take over games.

This could have been copied and pasted from Nail Yakupov's scouting report.

• Axel Sandin-Pellikka: Offensive defenseman with elite mobility. The top-pair debate? Too soon. But top-4 with PP1 upside? Absolutely.

Now this is the one player in Detroit's system that has the legit chance of stardom.

• Trey Augustine + Cossa: One of the best young goalie duos in the system. Cossa’s already showing No. 1 potential, and Augustine is tracking fast.

So then why isn't Cossa in Detroit yet? Why is Yzerman going into next season with both Talbot and Mrazek, the likely duo until Mrazek's customary injury that keeps him out for a few weeks?

Meanwhile, Augustine has already announced that he's going back to Michigan State for the upcoming season, meaning he's another year away from being buried in the minors for 2-3 years before sniffing the NHL.

2. Gamebreakers Win Games, Depth Wins Cups:

Again, the Blues are the only NHL club in the cap era to win a Cup with that makeup and no true superstars.

 

[Artaud]

They had almost the exact same season but Montreal is in the playoffs because Caufield is younger?

This jumping through hoops to avoid blaming the parts of Detroit’s roster that are actually to blame is tiresome.
No, it’s not the league’s leading U25 scorer who is to blame because he’s a year or two older than Slafkovsky.

Raymond is exactly two years older... why would you say a year or two, implying Slaf is a late birthday or something?

Slafkovsky and Raymond have nearly identical 5 on 5 production. Raymond is a small winger while Slaf is a big power forward.

Yet that's the guy Detroit fans are telling us is the team's best player, while Slaf is not close to the best Canadien. That's precisely why the Habs are better : they have higher end talent with the emergence of Suzuki and Hutson. Detroit is still waiting for their franchise-level talent, and since they seem hell-bent on barely missing the playoffs every year, that wait could be very long.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Raymond is exactly two years older... why would you say a year or two, implying Slaf is a late birthday or something?

Slafkovsky and Raymond have nearly identical 5 on 5 production. Raymond is a small winger while Slaf is a big power forward.

Yet that's the guy Detroit fans are telling us is the team's best player, while Slaf is not close to the best Canadien. That's precisely why the Habs are better : they have higher end talent with the emergence of Suzuki and Hutson. Detroit is still waiting for their franchise-level talent, and since they seem hell-bent on barely missing the playoffs every year, that wait could be very long.

You realize standings points aren’t calculated via age or only 5v5 production right? Again, it’s a poor argument that Montreal made it because Slafkovsky produced at a ”nearly identical” level and is younger, or because Caufield is younger than Debrincat. Age does not give standings points, performance does.

 

[Artaud]

You realize standings points aren’t calculated via age or only 5v5 production right? Again, it’s a poor argument that Montreal made it because Slafkovsky produced at a ”nearly identical” level and is younger, or because Caufield is younger than Debrincat. Age does not give standings points, performance does.

I realize that you haven't read my post properly. This is my argument :

« Detroit fans are telling us Raymond is the team's best player, while Slaf is not close to the best Canadien. That's precisely why the Habs are better : they have higher end talent with the emergence of Suzuki and Hutson. Detroit is still waiting for their franchise-level talent, and since they seem hell-bent on barely missing the playoffs every year, that wait could be very long. »

 

[Dotter]

Nothing about Nate Danielson screams top-6 center. At best, he'll be a poor-man's J.T. Compher, as in the very last thing Detroit needs.

That's where you lost me and figured no need to read further.


Oh, here are some sources:

1. EliteProspects Draft Guide 2023:
   • “Projects as a strong, two-way center who could comfortably slot in as a second-line pivot with the potential for more.”
   • eliteprospects.com
2. The Athletic – Corey Pronman’s Draft Rankings:
   • “Danielson projects as a middle-six center, but there’s enough tools for him to push into a top-six role depending on development.”
   • theathletic.com
3. Scott Wheeler (The Athletic):
   • “One of the more projectable top-six centers in the draft, with a safe floor as a reliable, two-way center.”
4. Dobber Prospects:
   • “Likely to be a dependable second-line center, potentially a low-end first-line guy on a strong team if his offense continues to develop.”
   • dobberprospects.com

While wording varies, the consensus projection for Danielson is:

• 2C lock with 1C upside on teams that don’t rely solely on elite offensive talent from their top-line center (think depth-focused, balanced rosters).

You put considerable effort into tearing down Detroit's prospect pool. I can't help but wonder—what's the motivation behind that?

 

[Razor Face]

Haven’t read the thread so no idea if it’s been discussed… I had written off Lalonde as not a great coach but I have found myself agreeing with a lot of what he’s said on the Sportsnet panel.

For some reason sens and wings fans have had some animosity (I am only leafs and habs hater personally) but I love detroits situation moving forward. Raymond is nasty and Seider/ed is a real nice cornerstone to build A d core around. Detroit was a force for so many years the rebuild wasn’t going to happen overnight