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Detroit Redwings Downfall

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Hockeyfan2390 said:
How long before the Yzerman worshippers say that these NHL executives "just don't know puck", their go-to response when anyone criticizes how slow things are moving for Detroit under him?

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After another year of disappointment, where do the Red Wings go from here?

Have the Red Wings fallen behind the 8-ball after the success of their Atlantic Division rivals?
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2 "NHL executives" said "they have players coming but we dont know how impactful" and "they made the best trades and free agent choices available to them but should have waited" .... ground breaking insight. This sounds like 187 pages of regurgitated arguments from this exact thread. Non Yzerman supporters = didn't tank long enough, didn't draft stars, free agents suck, core isn't going to develop enough to be contenders, Yzerman needs to find an elite #1 C and #1 D and #1 Goalie. Did I miss anything?

I am a pretty big Yzerman supporter. Everyone knows which free agents he signed suck. A nice chunk are gone soon. The narrative for a team that may get swept Round 1 vs a team that missed the playoffs are worlds apart... Yzerman, Larkin and Co. deserve criticism for a few things, no doubt... but the debate really is just circling the drain over and over.

Would Wings fans have been over the moon with excitement if they made the WC, regardless of outcome? Yes. Still doesn't change much in the outlook of the future of the team besides some playoff experience, which is no doubt valuable.
 
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saska sault said:
2 "NHL executives" said "they have players coming but we dont know how impactful" and "they made the best trades and free agent choices available to them but should have waited" .... ground breaking insight. This sounds like 187 pages of regurgitated arguments from this exact thread. Non Yzerman supporters = didn't tank long enough, didn't draft stars, free agents suck, core isn't going to develop enough to be contenders, Yzerman needs to find an elite #1 C and #1 D and #1 Goalie. Did I miss anything?

I am a pretty big Yzerman supporter. Everyone knows which free agents he signed suck. A nice chunk are gone soon. The narrative for a team that may get swept Round 1 vs a team that missed the playoffs are worlds apart... Yzerman, Larkin and Co. deserve criticism for a few things, no doubt... but the debate really is just circling the drain over and over.

Would Wings fans have been over the moon with excitement if they made the WC, regardless of outcome? Yes. Still doesn't change much in the outlook of the future of the team besides some playoff experience, which is no doubt valuable.
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As a Habs fans I can attest making the playoffs makes everything so much better.

Detroit deserves to get back, but the Atlantic is not getting weaker (beside Boston), it will be very tough for them.
 
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Pablo El Perro said:
It's Fedorov.
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ijuka said:
Actually, Fyodorov is what I'd use, there's 0% chance that non-Russian know that the e is pronounced yo.
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You are both wrong, it’s “Fedoraov”

images
 
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FMichael said:
On the other hand Larkin (while he needs to step it up) has been by far the best player on this team for several seasons and it continues to struggle with no hope in sight.
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Larkin hasn't been the team's best player for at least 2 seasons. Maybe 3.

Breakers said:
should have called out his boss for giving Holl and Chiarot Modified NTC

guys that suck that bad should not be getting any clauses
both are ;lucky to be in the league
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Chiarot is miscast on the top pairing but he's not that bad.

Michoulicious said:
Detroit deserves to get back, but the Atlantic is not getting weaker (beside Boston), it will be very tough for them.
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Could absolutely see Toronto getting weaker (losing Marner/Tavares etc). Ottawa/Montreal regression is also fully in the cards.
But bottom line is Detroit needs to focus on getting better and worry about the division later. If they miss the playoffs because they're a 95 point team in a division that has 5 other teams >95 points, so be it.
 
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Michoulicious said:
As a Habs fans I can attest making the playoffs makes everything so much better.

Detroit deserves to get back, but the Atlantic is not getting weaker (beside Boston), it will be very tough for them.
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Kudos to MTL for making the playoffs, but in December they had what, a 2% chance of making the playoffs. They are a statistical anomality more than anything. Though, yes a team in the mix and their build is going well. Though they too can go sideways or back in the next part of the process before they again move forward.
 
SirKillalot said:
Kudos to MTL for making the playoffs, but in December they had what, a 2% chance of making the playoffs. They are a statistical anomality more than anything. Though, yes a team in the mix and their build is going well. Though they too can go sideways or back in the next part of the process before they again move forward.
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The difference between where the Habs currently are and the Wings is the Habs drafted an elite #1 D. They have Hutson. The Wings don’t have that level of D man. Seider is great, but isn’t the dynamic play driver that Hutson is. ASP might be that guy for the Wings. Excited to see what he can do next year.
 
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Fatass said:
The difference between where the Habs currently are and the Wings is the Habs drafted an elite #1 D. They have Hutson. The Wings don’t have that level of D man. Seider is great, but isn’t the dynamic play driver that Hutson is. ASP might be that guy for the Wings. Excited to see what he can do next year.
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I know its easy to get romantic about some point scorers.
We'll see if its Hutson's offense or Seider's defense that wins a Championship first.

Though to call Hutson elite and not Seider is a bit farfetch as neither are among the absolute elite as per now.

Seider is an #1D in the NHL though, and I think we shall see that in the years to come.
 
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Fatass said:
The difference between where the Habs currently are and the Wings is the Habs drafted an elite #1 D. They have Hutson. The Wings don’t have that level of D man. Seider is great, but isn’t the dynamic play driver that Hutson is. ASP might be that guy for the Wings. Excited to see what he can do next year.
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The only team with an OFD like Hutson as their 1D that has won the cup is Colorado. Zero other cup winning teams in the last 20 years had a player like that as their top D. Carlson/Letang are close but still very different type of players. It’s much more often been the big strong minute munching 2way guy.

Hutson is incredible but this just reads like you don’t ever watch Seider play. 1D isn’t the issue in Detroit, at all.
 
RedHawkDown said:
The only team with an OFD like Hutson as their 1D that has won the cup is Colorado. Zero other cup winning teams in the last 20 years had a player like that as their top D. Carlson/Letang are close but still very different type of players. It’s much more often been the big strong minute munching 2way guy.

Hutson is incredible but this just reads like you don’t ever watch Seider play. 1D isn’t the issue in Detroit, at all.
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To be fair, defensemens like Hutson are a rarity so historical precedent is not the best lens to look at it.

Agreed that Seider is not the issue.

I think the biggest difference between the Habs and Wings is behind the bench. Saint-Louis was a gamble, but the progress of young players under his tutelage has been spectacular. That group has elevated its play and really bought into what is shaping up to be a winning culture. I have my reservations about Mclellan, though he's an upgrade from Lalonde.
 
Michoulicious said:
As a Habs fans I can attest making the playoffs makes everything so much better.

Detroit deserves to get back, but the Atlantic is not getting weaker (beside Boston), it will be very tough for them.
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Atlantic may not be getting weaker, but we do expect Detroit to improve, assuming at least some of the youngsters coming up will deliver on their promise. Montreal seems to be on the rise, with Hutson, Slafkovsky, Demidov all expected to make more impact. Ottawa on the other hand might take a step back (Giroux will retire soon). In Tampa, Hedman and McDonagh are aging. There could be an opening.
 
Artaud said:
To be fair, defensemens like Hutson are a rarity so historical precedent is not the best lens to look at it.

Agreed that Seider is not the issue.

I think the biggest difference between the Habs and Wings is behind the bench. Saint-Louis was a gamble, but the progress of young players under his tutelage has been spectacular. That group has elevated its play and really bought into what is shaping up to be a winning culture. I have my reservations about Mclellan, though he's an upgrade from Lalonde.
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that’s true, but they’re a rarity for a reason - it’s hard to win unless the 1D can carry all the most challenging matchups. Hutson has yet to show he can do that, but if he can be Makar 2.0 then for sure they’ll win a cup with him
 
Fatass said:
The difference between where the Habs currently are and the Wings is the Habs drafted an elite #1 D. They have Hutson. The Wings don’t have that level of D man. Seider is great, but isn’t the dynamic play driver that Hutson is. ASP might be that guy for the Wings. Excited to see what he can do next year.
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I think you the miss the point on Hutson. He was a somewhat unexpected rookie contribution that was the right add for Montreal at the right time. Unique as he is as a 1D and as self congratulatory as Montreal is about his rise, that's not Detroit's issue. I'd think they'd want 2-3 more good higher octane young forwards who can help generate more upward momentum and start looking more like Caufield and Slafkovsky to go along with Raymond and Larkin.
 
Stephen said:
I think you the miss the point on Hutson. He was a somewhat unexpected rookie contribution that was the right add for Montreal at the right time. Unique as he is as a 1D and as self congratulatory as Montreal is about his rise, that's not Detroit's issue. I'd think they'd want 2-3 more good higher octane young forwards who can help generate more upward momentum and start looking more like Caufield and Slafkovsky to go along with Raymond and Larkin.
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Imo the Wings and Habs are close in their rebuilds. It’s Hutson who is the difference. The Wings don’t currently have that level of D man. Seider is great. But he’s not the offensive play driver (and that’s from all three zones whether with his feet or passing) that Hutson is. Imo Hutson on the Wings and they are in the playoffs and the Habs are drafting top 10.
 
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Fatass said:
Imo the Wings and Habs are close in their rebuilds. It’s Hutson who is the difference. The Wings don’t currently have that level of D man. Seider is great. But he’s not the offensive play driver (and that’s from all three zones whether with his feet or passing) that Hutson is. Imo Hutson on the Wings and they are in the playoffs and the Habs are drafting top 10.
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To me, Hutson represents a unique roll of the dice and an unexpected elite add which has helped Montreal. But I think the mix is not quite right in Detroit as in they've been rebuilding for quite a while but don't have that youthful forward group to show for.

Larkin (28), DeBrincat (26) and Raymond (22) at the top end is not a coherent youth movement.

Air dropping in Hutson would obviously make a difference here. Seider is workable as 1D. They need the forward version of Hutson. Like finally, this guy is going to push Larkin down, and is the true inheritor of the Yzerman mantle.
 
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Dvorak, Anderson, Gallagher, Matheson and Carrier on the Wings instead of Compher, Rasmussen, Tarasenko, Petry, Holl and we are in the playoffs. Kasper, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, Debrincat, Larkin is just as good a young core as Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Hutson, Laine. For the thousandth time, the kids aren’t the issue in Detroit. Quite literally everything else is.
 
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Less the positional whatever of Hutson, but Montreal pulling out a stud from the 2nd round. Detroit has puled.... Albert Johansson and people are giving it a round of applause for having a guy on the roster. Bunt singles from late picks don't do much, need a homerun or multiple doubles.
 
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