Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Hockeyfan2390]

Oh look, someone with standards and urgency.



Your move, Steve.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

All I’ve got to say to this nonsensical post is that you’re entitled to your opinion

In other words, you can't disprove it.

Better yet, maybe you can explain why you think that Yzerman should continue to get endless runway despite not having delivered a single playoff appearance in six years on the job (which is typically described as failure).

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

It’s all part of the plan. Everyone else sees checkers, meanwhile Yzerman is playing 4D chess and laying the groundwork for the Wings to win the Cup in 2047.

Some of the usual suspects would venture in with their walkers and say "See??? See??? He said it would take time!!"

 

[Garbageyuk]

Some of the usual suspects would venture in with their walkers and say "See??? See??? He said it would take time!!"

ASP needs time to develop.

 

[Fatass]

ASP needs time to develop.

ASP might be that key offensive D (pp guy too) the Wings so desperately need. It’s a huge jump though from the Swedish league to the nhl.

 

[Garbageyuk]

.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

ASP needs time to develop.

In the meantime, Detroit needs actual NHL players on their blue line instead of a collection of garbage named Petry, Holl and Gustafsson.

If Yzerman actually re-signs Petry and doesn't buy out the last year of Holl's deal (why the hell he even signed him in the first place is beyond belief), he's not a serious general manager.

 

[Fatass]

In the meantime, Detroit needs actual NHL players on their blue line instead of a collection of garbage named Petry, Holl and Gustafsson.

If Yzerman actually re-signs Petry and doesn't buy out the last year of Holl's deal (why the hell he even signed him in the first place is beyond belief), he's not a serious general manager.

Wings have a solid group. They are missing a #1 D man who can lead their offensive game including running their pp. right now their D are in roles they don’t best fit. ASP might be the key guy. Much like Hutson changed the fortunes in Montreal.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The Red Wings have no Vasilevskiy in their system. If Cossa was so special, he'd already be in the NHL.

The Red Wings have no Point or Kucherov in their system.

Not that I think he’ll come anywhere close, but weird thing to say when someone like Lundqvist didn’t play in the NHL until his D+6. Or Thomas until he was like 100. Rinne until he was like 26

 

[nbwingsfan]

Wings have a solid group. They are missing a #1 D man who can lead their offensive game including running their pp. right now their D are in roles they don’t best fit. ASP might be the key guy. Much like Hutson changed the fortunes in Montreal.

The wings absolutely do not have a “solid group”

Seider and Ed are a great top pair.
Chiarot is an ok #5
AlJo could eventually be a top 4, but currently a bottom pair guy
The rest aren’t NHL quality

We’re currently missing an entire second pair.

 

[dragonballgtz]

Even Larkin taking shots at Yzerman.

 

[Pavels Dog]

We've been hearing "building for the future" for 6 years now.

What do you think ”building for the future” means?

 

[SirKillalot]

. Where’s he’s failing, and why the club is stuck in the current hole they’re in, is he’s not been able to get (draft or trade) an elite, offensive, 1D and an elite, offensive, 1C. It’s these two key pieces he needs to get to move the club ahead.
As the current young players he has collected start to get paid the cap gets eaten up. Not so much left for the elite pieces he needs, if he can find them.
That’s why I think it’s important for Yzermsn to trade some of these younger good players (prospects too) to bring in elite players, whether that’s directly in trade or by opening cap space for free agents.

That might be that one have to trade for one or two of those players in the end. But first, one have to see who of the drafted prospects are the ones making those steps, or one have to gamble early on who it will be and take chances potentially trading for those way early. From the looks of it, Yzerman doesn't seem comfortable doing that as why trade for something that might develop within.

We've been hearing "building for the future" for 6 years now.

And you will be hearing about it until the drafted players are old enough / have taken enough steps to get into the team. Patience is key.

Oh look, someone with standards and urgency.

Or unrealistic viewpoint. Nothing that says the Ducks will gain so much ground over the summer to make the playoffs.

Better yet, maybe you can explain why you think that Yzerman should continue to get endless runway despite not having delivered a single playoff appearance in six years on the job (which is typically described as failure).

Because there is a plan in place where the drafted youngsters are developing and one need to let them get the chance to making the team before deciding whether its looking like it can be successful or not.

Yes, its taking probably couple of seasons more than expected as one didn't luck out with getting a couple of top 2-3 franchise draft pick, though one are developing those on a bit of a longer term.

In the meantime, Detroit needs actual NHL players on their blue line instead of a collection of garbage named Petry, Holl and Gustafsson.

That might be, but it also depends who is available through trade and who wants to sign from the FA market for reasonable prices.

Everyone expected Holl to be a fill gap, Petry maybe a bit more expectations and for sure one expected much better from Gustafsson. For whatever reason it hasn't been a good fit, though long term it doesn't matter much.

I think they hoped one might stick, but if not no crisis. As when younger guys getting into the team one know more of what they want to fill it out with and other better guys might be or become available at that time.

 

[Fatass]

That might be that one have to trade for one or two of those players in the end. But first, one have to see who of the drafted prospects are the ones making those steps, or one have to gamble early on who it will be and take chances potentially trading for those way early. From the looks of it, Yzerman doesn't seem comfortable doing that as why trade for something that might develop within.


And you will be hearing about it until the drafted players are old enough / have taken enough steps to get into the team. Patience is key.

Or unrealistic viewpoint. Nothing that says the Ducks will gain so much ground over the summer to make the playoffs.

Because there is a plan in place where the drafted youngsters are developing and one need to let them get the chance to making the team before deciding whether its looking like it can be successful or not.

Yes, its taking probably couple of seasons more than expected as one didn't luck out with getting a couple of top 2-3 franchise draft pick, though one are developing those on a bit of a longer term.

That might be, but it also depends who is available through trade and who wants to sign from the FA market for reasonable prices.

Everyone expected Holl to be a fill gap, Petry maybe a bit more expectations and for sure one expected much better from Gustafsson. For whatever reason it hasn't been a good fit, though long term it doesn't matter much.

I think they hoped one might stick, but if not no crisis. As when younger guys getting into the team one know more of what they want to fill it out with and other better guys might be or become available at that time.

Imo the decision to trade the younger players to get elite guys needs to come before the younger guys start getting paid their big contracts. As you say it is a “gamble”. But the time is now to take the gamble and choose which of these younger players to use in trade to get better. Other than Seider, imo, any of the younger guys (and prospects/picks) should be traded if the return makes the club better.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Oh look, someone with standards and urgency.



Your move, Steve.

Yzerman would never say this , imagine placing expectations at making the playoffs after like 6 years of rebuild where 50% of the league gets in. Wayyyyyy too high expectations

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Ducks fan, so bias and viewing discrepancies may be present.

This was evident when you claimed, already, that Carlsson > Raymond and Edvinsson = Jackson Lacombe.

 

[SirloinUB]

Aside from slafkovsky, there has been no top 5 pick involved in this playoff run for the Habs.

Remember, price and Weber effectively retired after the 2021 finals. Gorton was only hired in late 2021 and then Hughes and st louis in early 2022. It was only then that they picked 1st, 5th, and 5th. Like I said, slafkovsky is the only regular from that list so far and is 21 years old.

This is a different situation than what Detroit or Ottawa have been going through.

Fair nuance in terms of where the roster is today.

When comparing rebuilds/the bigger picture they have had 4 top 5 picks in 7 years including 3 top 5 picks in 3 consecutive years.

 

[SirKillalot]

Imo the decision to trade the younger players to get elite guys needs to come before the younger guys start getting paid their big contracts. As you say it is a “gamble”. But the time is now to take the gamble and choose which of these younger players to use in trade to get better. Other than Seider, imo, any of the younger guys (and prospects/picks) should be traded if the return makes the club better.

No, first they need to have a feel for which players are the ones coming up taking spots.
Then they can look at that and it depends on price and long term solutions.
No point in trading away many young guys if they can be a very solid part of the solution 2-3 years from now.

 

[SirKillalot]

Yzerman would never say this , imagine placing expectations at making the playoffs after like 6 years of rebuild where 50% of the league gets in.

You can say that as much as you want. But, which team is the Ducks realistically pushing out of a playoff spot?

 

[FMichael]

ASP might be that key offensive D (pp guy too) the Wings so desperately need. It’s a huge jump though from the Swedish league to the nhl.

Agreed…As a pessimist - a realist - many of my fellow Red Wing fans are already slotting him in for top 4 playing time…While I hope he excels once he arrives - with our luck and all the hype he could wind up being nothing more than a 6th/7th Dman.

 

[hamzarocks]

This was evident when you claimed, already, that Carlsson > Raymond and Edvinsson = Jackson Lacombe.

Right now

Raymond > Carlsson
LaCombe > Edvinsson

In the future (1-2 years)

Carlsson > Raymond
Edvinsson > LaCombe

If Carlsson and Edvinsson continue to improve as expected and hit their ceilings which are projected to be higher than Raymond and LaCombes

 

[WarriorofTime]

You can say that as much as you want. But, which team is the Ducks realistically pushing out of a playoff spot?

In their own division, not unfeasible they pass LA and if the wheels fell of Edmonton, it's not crazy they could finish as high as 2nd in the division. The offseason obviously will play a big role in all of it.

 

[Czechboy]

since Raymond has been in the league, he has 2 seasons where he outperformed Stutzle

Frist of all. Learn to argue without tossing insults. Or put me on ignore. Happy to have a hockey talk with you. I don't agree with any of your views but I have yet to call you any names or call your ideas any names.

Anyways... are these the 2 seasons where he outperformed Stutzl:

Do you think he outperformed Barkov too?

You do see Stutzl played less games, right? You do see Stutzl has a higher .ppg, right? This is not outperforming a guy. At it's base you are using raw stats to show has 3 more points over 2 season in 7 more games and declaring a victory. When I use raw stats to show that Stutzl has more GP, G, A and TP it is disengenuous. What is sincere about your argument?

Also you keep making up a quote where I said Stutzl is significantly better.. quote where I said it or stop making things up. Same age, same draft, same opportunities. One is clearly ahead today. The one in the playoffs right now.

 

[SirKillalot]

In their own division, not unfeasible they pass LA and if the wheels fell of Edmonton, it's not crazy they could finish as high as 2nd in the division. The offseason obviously will play a big role in all of it.

Its absolutely unrealistic to think they pass LA or EDM next season.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Frist of all. Learn to argue without tossing insults. Or put me on ignore. Happy to have a hockey talk with you. I don't agree with any of your views but I have yet to call you any names or call your ideas any names.

Anyways... are these the 2 seasons where he outperformed Stutzl:

View attachment 1019009

Do you think he outperformed Barkov too?

You do see Stutzl played less games, right? You do see Stutzl has a higher .ppg, right? This is not outperforming a guy. At it's base you are using raw stats to show has 3 more points over 2 season in 7 more games and declaring a victory. When I use raw stats to show that Stutzl has more GP, G, A and TP it is disengenuous. What is sincere about your argument?

Also you keep making up a quote where I said Stutzl is significantly better.. quote where I said it or stop making things up. Same age, same draft, same opportunities. One is clearly ahead today. The one in the playoffs right now.

"Do you think he outperformed Barkov too" is quite the ridiculous question considering Raymond and Stutzle are on the same tier offensively and Barkov is significantly above both, while also being one of the best defensive forwards in the world...

... Which kinda reads like you knew it wasn't applicable but asked it anyway. We're comparing apples to apples and you decided to throw in a table for comparison.