Detroit Redwings Downfall

[FriendlyGhost92]

If the plan was to miss the playoffs six straight years and build through the draft, why keep Larkin around?

"Larkin will be told old to contribute" is an interesting sell to a GM who won his first of three Cups at 32.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Homer take imo.

You can call it a homer take all you want but the easy Top 3 in that draft right now is some form of Edvinsson/Hughes/Johnston.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You can call it a homer take all you want but the easy Top 3 in that draft right now is some form of Edvinsson/Hughes/Johnston.

According to whom?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Homer take imo.

You know there is literally a thread on here where those two were essentially the only two listed #1/2…. Right?

So I’ll ask now for a THIRD time…. What would have bottoming out in years they realistically could have done for them?

 

[SensontheRush]

Detroit fans just gotta face the fact that Yzerman is just a polished-looking Dorion.

Great at drafting, awful at trading and roster construction. Consistently handicapping himself and the team with awful players. If Detroit wants to take that next step, they need someone that can actually address roster issues, not just perpetually spin the wheel.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Detroit fans just gotta face the fact that Yzerman is just a polished-looking Dorion.

Great at drafting, awful at trading and roster construction. Consistently handicapping himself and the team with awful players. If Detroit wants to take that next step, they need someone that can actually address roster issues, not just perpetually spin the wheel.

Yzerman has never made a blunder like the OG Debrincat trade or the Chychrun trade.

 

[SensontheRush]

Yzerman has never made a blunder like the OG Debrincat trade or the Chychrun trade.

And then it took a great GM to steer both trades into Ullmark and Jensen

Fair enough though, but I'd argue Yzerman's free agent acquisitions have been worse. Holl, Tarasenko, Compher, Gustafsson, Chiarot... Just awful bloat.

Still, the Walman trade was awful, and trading for Petry was trading for an anchor.

The DbC trade was a homerun for you guys, but you also got lucky he wanted to play for his hometown team.

 

[nbwingsfan]

And then it took a great GM to steer both trades into Ullmark and Jensen

Fair enough though, but I'd argue Yzerman's free agent acquisitions have been worse. Holl, Tarasenko, Compher, Gustafsson, Chiarot... Just awful bloat.

Still, the Walman trade was awful, and trading for Petry was trading for an anchor.

The DbC trade was a homerun for you guys, but you also got lucky he wanted to play for his hometown team.

I mean it turns into 7th overall, 39th overall in 2022 + 12th overall, and two other 2nds in 2023 (I think?) for Ullmark, Jensen and some trash

you could have got a HELL of a lot more with that kind of offer if the assets weren’t blown.

Non - long term damaging UFA damaging contracts doesn’t compare to that

 

[CowbellConray]

Yzerman doesn’t make good trades, signs very average players to long term deals that he then trades for bad value because they are overpriced, drafts at a very average rate, and their team has had ONE season above 85 points in the last 9.

That’s bad

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yzerman doesn’t make good trades, signs very average players to long term deals that he then trades for bad value because they are overpriced, drafts at a very average rate, and their team has had ONE season above 85 points in the last 9.

That’s bad

Yzerman hasn’t been here for 9 years…

His drafts have actually been very good. He got the 1st or 2nd best player in the 2019,2020 & 2021 drafts despite picking 6th, 4th and 6th while also having one of the current top prospect pools in the NHL.

His trades have either been very bad (walman, maybe Petry but it was also just a 3rd) very good (Mantha, Debrincat, Bertuzzi) or inconsequential (Veleno, Maatta, etc)

His UFA signings have been hilariously bad though. The only half decent one has been Ghost.

 

[Andrei79]

Yzerman hasn’t been here for 9 years…

His drafts have actually been very good. He got the 1st or 2nd best player in the 2019,2020 & 2021 drafts despite picking 6th, 4th and 6th while also having one of the current top prospect pools in the NHL.

His trades have either been very bad (walman, maybe Petry but it was also just a 3rd) very good (Mantha, Debrincat, Bertuzzi) or inconsequential (Veleno, Maatta, etc)

His UFA signings have been hilariously bad though. The only half decent one has been Ghost.

Edvinsson, Seider and Raymond is a fantastic haul. Great drafting there. Edvinsson is very underrated as a U25 player, but he'll be a beast. Kasper looks like an excellent pick too. There should be a lot of organic growth as these players get experience. However, as you said the trades have been iffy and the signings so, so bad. The team would have been better served either drafting higher or actually making the post-season, but the leadership group he assembled failed. That said, I do think the basis of a good team is there.

 

[Czechboy]

Edvinsson, Seider and Raymond is a fantastic haul. Great drafting there. Edvinsson is very underrated as a U25 player, but he'll be a beast. Kasper looks like an excellent pick too. There should be a lot of organic growth as these players get experience. However, as you said the trades have been iffy and the signings so, so bad. The team would have been better served either drafting higher or actually making the post-season, but the leadership group he assembled failed. That said, I do think the basis of a good team is there.

I'll add ASP to this ... unproven and young but every indication says he'll probably be quite good.
I'll also add the 2 goalies in the pipe.

For giggles, I'll also say Ondrej Becher absolutely outplays his draft position and becomes Yzerman's best non first round pick. Yes, it's a reach but I have a bias.lol

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Like many bubble teams, they just started to win too late.

 

[Andrei79]

I'll add ASP to this ... unproven and young but every indication says he'll probably be quite good.
I'll also add the 2 goalies in the pipe.

For giggles, I'll also say Ondrej Becher absolutely outplays his draft position and becomes Yzerman's best non first round pick. Yes, it's a reach but I have a bias.lol

I'm partial to Czech players too, having lived there in my 20s. Made a lot of local friends and visited almost the whole country, including Ostrava.

 

[Czechboy]

I'm partial to Czech players too, having lived there in my 20s. Made a lot of local friends and visited almost the whole country, including Ostrava.

Mrazek and Lendl! 2 Ostrava greats and one is back in Detroit! Hoping he gets healthy as I want him at the World's!

 

[CowbellConray]

Yzerman hasn’t been here for 9 years…

His drafts have actually been very good. He got the 1st or 2nd best player in the 2019,2020 & 2021 drafts despite picking 6th, 4th and 6th while also having one of the current top prospect pools in the NHL.

His trades have either been very bad (walman, maybe Petry but it was also just a 3rd) very good (Mantha, Debrincat, Bertuzzi) or inconsequential (Veleno, Maatta, etc)

His UFA signings have been hilariously bad though. The only half decent one has been Ghost.

I didn’t say he was the GM for the entire 9 years, just that they don’t have anything to show for the last 9 years.

It’s easier to draft in the top 10…. The Sabres picked the second best player in 2014, top 3 player from 2015, and top 2 player from 2018 and have nothing to show for it. It’s the rest of the roster that separates poor GMs from good ones, and Yzerman cannot build a team that works at ES and has solid depth

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Detroit really needs to figure out their UFA signings and pro scouting. Bunch of mediocre slop given way too much money.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I didn’t say he was the GM for the entire 9 years, just that they don’t have anything to show for the last 9 years.

It’s easier to draft in the top 10…. The Sabres picked the second best player in 2014, top 3 player from 2015, and top 2 player from 2018 and have nothing to show for it. It’s the rest of the roster that separates poor GMs from good ones, and Yzerman cannot build a team that works at ES and has solid depth

2014 they were morons and traded him away….

2015 picked a Top 3 player while drafting *checks notes* top two….

2018 picked the best player while drafting *checks notes again* 1st overall…

Yzerman has greatly exceeded draft expectations in the 1st. None of the picks were no brainers.

Buffalo just picked the obvious pick, and then traded one away for garbage.

 

[CowbellConray]

2014 they were morons and traded him away….

2015 picked a Top 3 player while drafting *checks notes* top two….

2018 picked the best player while drafting *checks notes again* 1st overall…

Yzerman has greatly exceeded draft expectations in the 1st. None of the picks were no brainers.

Buffalo just picked the obvious pick, and then traded one away for garbage.

Detroit picked 6th, 6th, and 4th and picked good players. He did a good job, and sure, if you want to say he has done well with those picks - cool. I’m saying that Buffalo picked top players early in the first and it gave them nothing in return…. Which is exactly where the red wings are.

2019-2021 other than the picks at 6th, 6th, 4th he has 28 players with a combined 107 games…. That’s AWFUL. It’s why they haven’t made the postseason. In fact, their first round picks outside of those three have been very very average as a whole.

31 picks. 3 impact players.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Detroit picked 6th, 6th, and 4th and picked good players. He did a good job, and sure, if you want to say he has done well with those picks - cool. I’m saying that Buffalo picked top players early in the first and it gave them nothing in return…. Which is exactly where the red wings are.

2019-2021 other than the picks at 6th, 6th, 4th he has 28 players with a combined 107 games…. That’s AWFUL. It’s why they haven’t made the postseason. In fact, their first round picks outside of those three have been very very average as a whole.

31 picks. 3 impact players.

You’re the one who said he hasn’t been very good at drafting. He literally picked the top two players in three straight drafts without a top 2 pick

The other 1sts Have been average? You’ve come to that conclusion based on players who are 21- 18years old? Very very strange.

 

[CowbellConray]

You’re the one who said he hasn’t been very good at drafting. He literally picked the top two players in three straight drafts without a top 2 pick

The other 1sts Have been average? You’ve come to that conclusion based on players who are 21- 18years old? Very very strange.

He is average at best. Good at top 6 picks - very meh with picks 7-15 (Kasper looks ok, Danielson not a fan, Cossa looks meh at best) and the rest of the draft he should just trade his picks for other teams prospects because he can’t draft after that. If you told me my GM would be that, plus he overpays average players in FA and his trades are meh, I’d probably pass even if he gave me Seider/Raymond/edvinsson. Btw - hysterical that a 2022 pick can’t be measured yet because they are 21 but edvinsson is a clear top 2 player in his class.

If you think he is this great drafting GM, how come he gets 1 NHL player a draft while having on average 10 selections each time (and MULTIPLE second round picks in those drafts…)

 

[SensontheRush]

I mean it turns into 7th overall, 39th overall in 2022 + 12th overall, and two other 2nds in 2023 (I think?) for Ullmark, Jensen and some trash

you could have got a HELL of a lot more with that kind of offer if the assets weren’t blown.

Non - long term damaging UFA damaging contracts doesn’t compare to that

Ullmark is a Vezina winning goalie, and Jensen was the final piece in giving the Sens a deep, well-balanced defense core. Yes, at the end of the day we could have done better, but how much better? Meh. Obviously very happy with how things have turned out.

I don't know, even these two years are proving to be a hinderance to work around, with discussions surrounding buying out multiple of these players. Sure, not long-term, but a barrier towards being competitive both this year and next. Extra effort is required to deal with them for no reason or benefit.

 

[nbwingsfan]

He is average at best. Good at top 6 picks - very meh with picks 7-15 (Kasper looks ok, Danielson not a fan, Cossa looks meh at best) and the rest of the draft he should just trade his picks for other teams prospects because he can’t draft after that. If you told me my GM would be that, plus he overpays average players in FA and his trades are meh, I’d probably pass even if he gave me Seider/Raymond/edvinsson. Btw - hysterical that a 2022 pick can’t be measured yet because they are 21 but edvinsson is a clear top 2 player in his class.

If you think he is this great drafting GM, how come he gets 1 NHL player a draft while having on average 10 selections each time (and MULTIPLE second round picks in those drafts…)

The Top 10 NHL Goalie Prospects - The Hockey Writers NHL Prospects Latest News, Analysis & More

Goaltending is the hardest position to draft and develop. These 10 prospects are showing they have what it takes to get to the highest level.

thehockeywriters.com

https://dobberhockey.com/2025/01/15/top-50-prospect-goaltenders-winter-2025/

Cossa, the 4th best rated goalie prospect in the world looks meh? Boy if that’s your opinion then the NHL is in for some awfully high scoring games in the future.

His 2019 and 2020 post 1st round picks were not great. The others have been projecting just fine.

Basing your opinion that 2nd+ round picks should already be established NHL players by 21 years old is hilarious, since anyone who actually knows hockey knows these guys need seasoning more than 1st round picks. This isn’t new.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Ullmark is a Vezina winning goalie, and Jensen was the final piece in giving the Sens a deep, well-balanced defense core. Yes, at the end of the day we could have done better, but how much better? Meh. Obviously very happy with how things have turned out.

I don't know, even these two years are proving to be a hinderance to work around, with discussions surrounding buying out multiple of these players. Sure, not long-term, but a barrier towards being competitive both this year and next. Extra effort is required to deal with them for no reason or benefit.

A Vezina winning goalie three years ago. Has he played anywhere near a Vezina level this season?

You could have done much better lol. Hilarious to argue otherwise.

 

[SensontheRush]

A Vezina winning goalie three years ago. Has he played anywhere near a Vezina level this season?

You could have done much better lol. Hilarious to argue otherwise.

I'm arguing against the sunk-cost fallacy.

And yep, Ullmark very much has been one of the main reasons why the Sens are in the playoffs today good goaltending is very undervalued.

Last year, Korpisalo was a -16xgsa, and this year, Ullmark has been a +16xgsa; that's a 32 goal swing. Incredible.