Detroit Redwings Downfall

[VivaLasVegas]

These are the imbeciles who will allow Yzerman to deliver zero tangible results, have an endless runway with zero urgency, all while saying "just wait for the kids".

That's pretty funny. "Important and meaningful games in March" good. "Important and meaningful games in April" bad.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Does improving point totals for 5 straight years prior to this season count as tangible ? Regardless of how you view draft picks, free agents, trades, franchise direction that must fit the definition of tangible. There are results despite your view of Yzerman.

Incremental improvement is a good thing for the first 3-4 years. Yzerman is about to enter year 7 with zero playoffs and a team that stagnated compared to last year.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

That's pretty funny. "Important and meaningful games in March" good. "Important and meaningful games in April" bad.

Same people who think that valuable playoff experience is meaningless and who think Detroit should only make the playoffs once they're Cup ready.

 

[saska sault]

Incremental improvement is a good thing for the first 3-4 years. Yzerman is about to enter year 7 with zero playoffs and a team that stagnated compared to last year.

If they get better next year and have improvement in 6 of 7 years is that good ?

 

[Pavels Dog]

I agree.. the first rounders are great. I do think he wins redrafts.

Now tell me about rounds 2 to 7 because he's Oiler's level bad at rounds 2 to 7.

Maybe Johanson? is that it?

A good drafter unearths some players in rounds 2 to 7. Kind of like Tampa and all their 2 to 7th rounders who became impact players.

It takes a while to evaluate mid to late round picks.

And even the best drafting teams can't automatically find the gems every year. Dallas' 2017 draft is considered one of the best in modern times. Their 2014, 2016 and 2018 drafts were essentially complete failures.

For now I'd maintain that Detroit might already have had a game-changing draft for the rebuild, the results just aren't in yet.

2021: Edvinsson, Cossa, Buium, Mazur
2022: Kasper, Buchelnikov, Lombardi
2023: Danielson, ASP, Augustine, Finnie

Any of these 3 drafts have realistic potential to give Detroit multiple core/depth pieces.

 

[JianYang]

Incremental improvement is a good thing for the first 3-4 years. Yzerman is about to enter year 7 with zero playoffs and a team that stagnated compared to last year.

I think what is happening is that the wings are still on a positive path overall but the process has been slower than what management was looking for.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Why is the rebuild taking so long? Exhibit A, courtesy of @Air Budd Dwyer on the DRW board. Detroit was also capped out when Yzerman arrived. Fun fact: they have one more year on Justin Abdelkader's buyout, who last played NHL hockey back in 2019-20.

 

[Bank Shot]

Red Wings fans will be blaming Holland 5 years from now.

If Yzerman was an ace GM why didnt he trade Zadina right away while he still had value around the league? Instead he waited a few seasons until there was no value left.

He sat on his hands during the covid flat cap era when he should have been extracting value from all the cap space he had.

He's handed out bloated contracts to old guys and failed to address the goaltending.

He's done an average job in Detroit. Maybe they are content with average.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Red Wings fans will be blaming Holland 5 years from now.

If Yzerman was an ace GM why didnt he trade Zadina right away while he still had value around the league? Instead he waited a few seasons until there was no value left.

He sat on his hands during the covid flat cap era when he should have been extracting value from all the cap space he had.

He's handed out bloated contracts to old guys and failed to address the goaltending.

He's done an average job in Detroit. Maybe they are content with average.

Yes, look at all that value Holland left behind in those previous 4 drafts.

Yzerman traded away Hronek, the one good piece from those 34 draft picks and turned it into Axel Sandin-Pelikka. He's had 1 top 5 pick during the rebuild. Edmonton had 6 over a 7 year period, including 4 1OA picks.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

Red Wings fans will be blaming Holland 5 years from now.

If Yzerman was an ace GM why didnt he trade Zadina right away while he still had value around the league? Instead he waited a few seasons until there was no value left.

He sat on his hands during the covid flat cap era when he should have been extracting value from all the cap space he had.

He's handed out bloated contracts to old guys and failed to address the goaltending.

He's done an average job in Detroit. Maybe they are content with average.

Why would he have traded Zadina right away? He had just been drafted the year prior. If we want to do hindsight, the Holland should’ve taken Hughes instead of Zadina. Every GM in sports would do a better job with the gift of hindsight. Yzerman is doing what Holland couldn’t do his last 5 seasons in Detroit; hitting on his 1st round picks.

Obviously some of the free agent signings have been questionable but certainly not crippling. But they’re just placeholders until Yzerman’s drafted prospects are ready to make the jump to the NHL. Almost none of them will be on the team by that time.

 

[BB88]

Why is the rebuild taking so long? Exhibit A, courtesy of @Air Budd Dwyer on the DRW board. Detroit was also capped out when Yzerman arrived. Fun fact: they have one more year on Justin Abdelkader's buyout, who last played NHL hockey back in 2019-20.

View attachment 1006091

Y has been at the helm for 6 years and they are having a worse season than last year. He neither had to draft a 1C because he was already in the building

Rebuilds that started after Detroits (under Y) have already caught up with them but hey let’s still blame the ex Gm from 10 years ago!!!!

After 74 games Detroit has 75 points, after 6 years of rebuilding 0, zero fans should be excited about that but he’ll always have the fans that find every excuse they can

 

[Run the Jewels]

Y has been at the helm for 6 years and they are having a worse season than last year. He neither had to draft a 1C because he was already in the building

Rebuilds that started after Detroits (under Y) have already caught up with them but hey let’s still blame the ex Gm from 10 years ago!!!!

After 74 games Detroit has 75 points, after 6 years of rebuilding 0, zero fans should be excited about that but he’ll always have the fans that find every excuse they can

If you want to add something to the conversation, please feel free to do so. I've stated my criticisms with Yzerman and added actual examples to make my case.

 

[Frobbo]

Yes, look at all that value Holland left behind in those previous 4 drafts.

Yzerman traded away Hronek, the one good piece from those 34 draft picks and turned it into Axel Sandin-Pelikka. He's had 1 top 5 pick during the rebuild. Edmonton had 6 over a 7 year period, including 4 1OA picks.

The cupboard Holland left wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as some lead you to believe. Anthansiou brought 2 2nds, Mantha brought a 1st and 2nd, Hronek a1st and 2nd, and Bertuzzi a 1st and a 4th. That is a lot of draft capital for SY to have to hasten the rebuild.
It is disingenuous for people to say that there is so little from the Holland era for SY to work with currently when SY himself traded it away. The jumpstart this had on the rebuild should have been significant. I am not saying the trades were mistakes, only that he reaped many assets from what is depicted as a wasteland. Thus the hole he had to dig out from wasn't as deep as some say.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Fun fact: they have one more year on Justin Abdelkader's buyout, who last played NHL hockey back in 2019-20.

Abdelkader's contract would have expired after 2022-23 if they just let it ride. That was a decision of Yzerman to buy him out before the 2020-21 season.

 

[Run the Jewels]

The cupboard Holland left wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as some lead you to believe. Anthansiou brought 2 2nds, Mantha brought a 1st and 2nd, Hronek a1st and 2nd, and Bertuzzi a 1st and a 4th. That is a lot of draft capital for SY to have to hasten the rebuild.
It is disingenuous for people to say that there is so little from the Holland era for SY to work with currently when SY himself traded it away. The jumpstart this had on the rebuild should have been significant. I am not saying the trades were mistakes, only that he reaped many assets from what is depicted as a wasteland. Thus the hole he had to dig out from wasn't as deep as some say.

The cupboard Holland left wasn't...as bas as some lead you to believe is one of the most cringe quotes offered up in this thread, and that's saying something.

Mantha trade:

• DRW picked Sebastian Cossa, who is their #1 goalie in the AHL and a potential #1 in the NHL. Will likely get his shot in 2026-27.
• DRW also picked Dmitri Buchelnikov who put up 0.83 PPG in the KHL this season.
• Mantha has bounced around the NHL between Caps, Vegas, Flames

Hronek trade:

• DRW drafted Axel Sandin-Pelikka who should join the team next season. Looks like a high end new-age small offensive d-man in the form of Karlsson, Hughes and Hutson.
• Hronek has been a great fit for the Nucks.

Bertuzzi trade:

• Brought over DeBrincat, who signed for 4 years.
• Bertuzzi has bounced around the league between the Bs, Leafs & Hawks.

There is no hastening, and suggesting there should be indicates you haven't been following this and are just taking pot shots, which is fine but whatever. Yzerman said as much during his introductory press conference, he made it clear he wouldn't put a timeline on how long it would take.

So if you are surprised he's used his very limited capital left behind by Holland to invest in the future, that's a you problem, not an Yzerman problem.

 

[BB88]

If you want to add something to the conversation, please feel free to do so. I've stated my criticisms with Yzerman and added actual examples to make my case.

I’ve said them plenty of times, I just admire the blind loyalty of some Detroit fans when it comes to protecting Y

If anyone told you last summer you’d be in a fight with Columbus and Montreal you’d have been happy with that, considered as a succesfull season?

One team drafted 4th overall and the other 5th overall..

 

[Run the Jewels]

I’ve said them plenty of times, I just admire the blind loyalty of some Detroit fans when it comes to protecting Y

If anyone told you last summer you’d be in a fight with Columbus and Montreal you’d have been happy with that, considered as a succesfull season?

One team drafted 4th overall and the other 5th overall..

Amazing insight. Thanks.

 

[WarriorofTime]

There is no hastening, and suggesting there should be indicates you haven't been following this and are just taking pot shots, which is fine but whatever. Yzerman said as much during his introductory press conference, he made it clear he wouldn't put a timeline on how long it would take.

So if you are surprised he's used his very limited capital left behind by Holland to invest in the future, that's a you problem, not an Yzerman problem.

Six years in and still shouting hall of fame Hockey Executive KEN HOLLAND. This is unbelievable. Yzerman's oldest draft picks are already 24, and the draft isn't the one and only way that teams acquire players. Almost the entire League has flipped over in terms of their contract since April of 2019.

Yzerman says "give me unlimited time" and fans just... bought it. What a cush gig.

 

[Frobbo]

The cupboard Holland left wasn't...as bas as some lead you to believe is one of the most cringe quotes offered up in this thread, and that's saying something.

Mantha trade:

• DRW picked Sebastian Cossa, who is their #1 goalie in the AHL and a potential #1 in the NHL. Will likely get his shot in 2026-27.
• DRW also picked Dmitri Buchelnikov who put up 0.83 PPG in the KHL this season.
• Mantha has bounced around the NHL between Caps, Vegas, Flames

Hronek trade:

• DRW drafted Axel Sandin-Pelikka who should join the team next season. Looks like a high end new-age small offensive d-man in the form of Karlsson, Hughes and Hutson.
• Hronek has been a great fit for the Nucks.

Bertuzzi trade:

• Brought over DeBrincat, who signed for 4 years.
• Bertuzzi has bounced around the league between the Bs, Leafs & Hawks.

There is no hastening, and suggesting there should be indicates you haven't been following this and are just taking pot shots, which is fine but whatever. Yzerman said as much during his introductory press conference, he made it clear he wouldn't put a timeline on how long it would take.

So if you are surprised he's used his very limited capital left behind by Holland to invest in the future, that's a you problem, not an Yzerman problem.

Dude, you missed the entire point of my post. KH left some parts that created draft capital for SY. It is often said he had almost nothing when he got there. It wasn't a lot but it was something. SY probably did well to get as much as he did.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Red Wings fans will be blaming Holland 5 years from now.

If Yzerman was an ace GM why didnt he trade Zadina right away while he still had value around the league? Instead he waited a few seasons until there was no value left.

Yzerman getting no blame for the awful asset management with Zadina has been absolutely baffling to me.

I don't think Steve should've traded him right away, but more when he was an RFA after two years of not really making an impact. He obviously wasn't going to get what was used to draft him, but they certainly could've gotten something measurable for a 21/22YO that went 6OA.

Instead Yzerman gives him that stupid backloaded 3 year contract that made him completely untrade-able if he didn't improve.

But Yzerdrones just shrugged it off since it was Hollands fault for drafting Zadina in the first place.

There was probably also a point where Joe Veleno might have had some measurable positive value instead of hanging onto him and settling for a warm body veteran forward rental and a terrible overpaid goalie in exchange.

 

[saska sault]

All of a sudden Zadina was a piece that was even intriguing to other teams? Guy was not good, I can't imagine there was much ever on the table for him unless it was a mid round pick or a swap for another failing prospect. Zadina sucks but also Yzerman sucks for not getting something for him, got it.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

I don't see much point in nitpicking every single move and draft pick Yzerman has ever made. You can make every GM look bad that way. I don't think Yzerman is a particularly error-prone GM, and he's been solid at the draft.

The bigger problem with Yzerman is the moves he hasn't made. There's a fine line between being patient and being passive, and Yzerman has definitely crossed it.

For all the problems being a bad team brings, bad teams also have advantages that contenders don't have. They have open roster spots, cap space (if the owner's willing to spend, and Detroit's is) and low expectations. They have plenty of opportunities to make moves and take low-risk gambles. Trades for talented players with bad contracts who could use a change of scenery. Acquire waiver wire guys, and guys with potential similarly buried on good teams' depth chart. Offer sheets (it's not like Doug Armstrong is the only guy who can use those). There are many ways to improve your roster beyond the draft and free agency, and those moves can yield just as much value (if not more) than a good 1st round pick.

Yzerman just hasn't done a lot of that in Detroit, for a guy who's been on the job nearly 7 years. As far as I can tell, the only long-term non-draft piece he's added to this roster is Debrincat. And that was a really good move, but over such a long period you'd expect a little more.

Regardless, after 7 years, there's no deflecting the team's results aways from Yzerman. Some select Wings fans are very keen on crediting every good outcome to Yzerman, and every problem they have to Lalonde/Holland/Draper/scouts. That's disingenuous. The rebuild isn't taking a while just because of Ken Holland; it's taking a while because Yzerman is taking a slow and safe approach to it. And I'm sure it'll yield a good team eventually, in 1/2/3 years. Though I don't think this roster's upside is amazing: ASP, Cossa, Danielson and MBN won't make that team into a contender.

Ultimately, at least in Detroit, Yzerman has been a thoroughly average GM, doing a really unremarkable rebuild. A rebuild that probably doesn't warrant a 140-page thread.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Dude, you missed the entire point of my post. KH left some parts that created draft capital for SY. It is often said he had almost nothing when he got there. It wasn't a lot but it was something. SY probably did well to get as much as he did.

Yes, so much draft capital that Mantha and Bertuzzi are both on their third team since leaving Detroit. So much draft capital that Filip Zadina is now out of the league. I'm sure you thought you had a point, sorry it didn't work out.

 

[saska sault]

I don't see much point in nitpicking every single move and draft pick Yzerman has ever made. You can make every GM look bad that way. I don't think Yzerman is a particularly error-prone GM, and he's been solid at the draft.

The bigger problem with Yzerman is the moves he hasn't made. There's a fine line between being patient and being passive, and Yzerman has definitely crossed it.

For all the problems being a bad team brings, bad teams also have advantages that contenders don't have. They have open roster spots, cap space (if the owner's willing to spend, and Detroit's is) and low expectations. They have plenty of opportunities to make moves and take low-risk gambles. Trades for talented players with bad contracts who could use a change of scenery. Acquire waiver wire guys, and guys with potential similarly buried on good teams' depth chart. Offer sheets (it's not like Doug Armstrong is the only guy who can use those). There are many ways to improve your roster beyond the draft and free agency, and those moves can yield just as much value (if not more) than a good 1st round pick.

Yzerman just hasn't done a lot of that in Detroit, for a guy who's been on the job nearly 7 years. As far as I can tell, the only long-term non-draft piece he's added to this roster is Debrincat. And that was a really good move, but over such a long period you'd expect a little more.

Regardless, after 7 years, there's no deflecting the team's results aways from Yzerman. Some select Wings fans are very keen on crediting every good outcome to Yzerman, and every problem they have to Lalonde/Holland/Draper/scouts. That's disingenuous. The rebuild isn't taking a while just because of Ken Holland; it's taking a while because Yzerman is taking a slow and safe approach to it. And I'm sure it'll yield a good team eventually, in 1/2/3 years. Though I don't think this roster's upside is amazing: ASP, Cossa, Danielson and MBN won't make that team into a contender.

Ultimately, at least in Detroit, Yzerman has been a thoroughly average GM, doing a really unremarkable rebuild. A rebuild that probably doesn't warrant a 140-page thread.

The reason he hasn't added long term pieces outside the draft is by design, that can be argued being a mistake or the correct course of action until we are all blue in the face. Debrincat wouldn't have been a Wing if he didn't ask to be. Yzerman isn't shopping his picks and prospects unless someone falls into his lap. I suspect that changes this off season, time will tell.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Six years in and still shouting hall of fame Hockey Executive KEN HOLLAND. This is unbelievable. Yzerman's oldest draft picks are already 24, and the draft isn't the one and only way that teams acquire players. Almost the entire League has flipped over in terms of their contract since April of 2019.

Yzerman says "give me unlimited time" and fans just... bought it. What a cush gig.

Did you have a point? Is it DETROIT BAD?