Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah I brought up Johnsson because I was comparing the 2 teams prospect pools from when they were rebuilding and while Johnsson was here he was a 20 goal scorer.

In fact they all became at least that.

And obviously the top 3 are much better then that

So if Söderblom scores 20 next year and the year after he's playing tier 2 Swedish hockey you'll call him a smashing success?
Berggren, while not an Yzerman pick, is a 2nd rounder who scored at a 20 goal pace a few years back. Success? Part of a great prospect pool? Or not as good as Andreas Johnsson?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So if Söderblom scores 20 next year and the year after he's playing tier 2 Swedish hockey you'll call him a smashing success?
Berggren, while not an Yzerman pick, is a 2nd rounder who scored at a 20 goal pace a few years back. Success? Part of a great prospect pool? Or not as good as Andreas Johnsson?

I'm not talking about "pace" I'm talking about actually hitting it plus this is about Yzerman.

As for your question about Soderblom if he hits 20 goals, even if it falls apart after that and he ends up in another leagueI 'd still call it a good pick because once you get to the 5th, 6th, 7th round they aren't supposed to make it.

So if one of them gives you a 20 goal season regardless of what happens after you got more out of them then you were supposed to.

I know what you are trying to do, and I assure you, you are not good enough to do it.

You are not going to get a gotcha on me.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm not talking about "pace" I'm talking about actually hitting it plus this is about Yzerman.

As for your question about Soderblom if he hits 20 goals, even if it falls apart after that and he ends up in another leagueI 'd still call it a good pick because once you get to the 5th, 6th, 7th round they aren't supposed to make it.

So if one of them gives you a 20 goal season regardless of what happens after you got more out of them then you were supposed to.

I know what you are trying to do, and I assure you, you are not good enough to do it.

You are not going to get a gotcha on me.

It's just a super weird flex to brag about a prospect who gave you 1-2 decent seasons and nothing more. Same as calling Hyman a "steal of a trade". Yeah, maybe if you had actually kept him. I guess you got a few 20 goal seasons out of him so you're happy. Nevermind that he became a 50 goal scorer when he left.

Detroit's drafting is more impressive as will likely become blatantly obvious once more time passes.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It's just a super weird flex to brag about a prospect who gave you 1-2 decent seasons and nothing more. Same as calling Hyman a "steal of a trade". Yeah, maybe if you had actually kept him. I guess you got a few 20 goal seasons out of him so you're happy. Nevermind that he became a 50 goal scorer when he left.

Detroit's drafting is more impressive as will likely become blatantly obvious once more time passes.

They got him for Greg Mckeeg and they got a conditional 7th too.

Yes Zach Hyman and a conditional 7th for Greg Mckeeg is a steal of a trade

 

[Ulysses31]

Don't worry, the saviour Nate Danielson is on the way.

seems DRW living in some ppls head

 

[TheDoldrums]

seems DRW living in some ppls head

Yeah I did take 5 seconds out of my day to post about Detroit, in a thread about Detroit. I may have even made a couple other posts in this 122 page thread. Clearly I’m obsessed.

 

[Pavels Dog]

They got him for Greg Mckeeg and they got a conditional 7th too.

Yes Zach Hyman and a conditional 7th for Greg Mckeeg is a steal of a trade

You're still reaching with your whole "this is what a prospect pool should look like" spiel. Detroit may not have landed a Matthews caliber player, but beyond that they've acquired far more depth and talent at every position than Toronto did coming out of their rebuild. It's like you're living in a parallel world where Toronto hasn't failed to make any noise whatsoever in the playoffs specifically because they've lacked talent at defense/goalie and depth up front.

 

[Dotter]

Don't worry, the saviour Nate Danielson is on the way.

With the emergence of Kasper, do they need Danielson to be that 1st line center? He could become a top 2-way 60 pt guy to center the 2nd line. He is the guy you try to match up against the McDavid's of the world.

Just need to surround these guys with offensive wingers. It's working for Kasper now.

 

[Ulysses31]

Yeah I did take 5 seconds out of my day to post about Detroit, in a thread about Detroit. I may have even made a couple other posts in this 122 page thread. Clearly I’m obsessed.

really dont get the hate tho. why?

annoyiny DRW fans? SY apologists?

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

This take is loud, but it misses a ton of context.

“A rebuild shouldn’t take six years if done correctly.”
What rebuild are you comparing it to?

I don't need to compare it to anything. It's a statement of fact. A proper rebuild does not take 6 (going on 7) years to yield a single playoff appearance if done correctly.

Detroit didn’t just need a retool — they needed a full teardown after the Holland era left them with no cap space, a bottom-tier farm system, and a bloated, aging core. This wasn’t flipping a few pieces — it was a ground-up restructure.

That's what the first 2-3 years were for fixing. By year 4, it's go time.

Go look at what Chicago is going through right now. Even Buffalo and Ottawa, who started earlier than Detroit, haven’t made the leap yet.

I couldn't care less about what other teams are doing. They're not being run by the supposed best GM in hockey.

In case you forgot, Ottawa has been in the playoffs since Detroit last was, and by all indications, they're going to be back in before Detroit is. And if "but but Buffalo" is your excuse, as in perhaps the worst-run franchise in all sports, your argument has failed.

“2-10 in their last 12, meltdown #3.”
Every team hits rough patches. That doesn’t erase the months of being in playoff contention with a roster that’s still maturing. And yes — collapsing down the stretch sucks, but growing teams often have to learn through those stumbles. This is still progress compared to where they were even 2 years ago.

They're at the point where they should be going through growing pains in the playoffs. What's your plan, to have Larkin's prime completely wasted? For Raymond and Seider to be 6 years into their careers before they finally appear in a playoff game?

“Cap flexibility misused at the deadline.”
The Wings didn’t go all-in because they weren’t a true contender — and that’s smart asset management. You don’t waste 1st-rounders or top prospects for rentals when your goal is sustained success. Talbot and Mrazek were cheap veteran placeholders, and Cossa has had exactly one full AHL season. Rushing goalies ruins more careers than it saves.

Nobody said trade the entire farm for Rantanen or something crazy.

Adding a depth piece at a low cost (the time for hoarding draft picks is over) to reward the team for turning the season around under McLellan wasn't unreasonable (and by all indications, the dressing room isn't happy that wasn't done.)

If Yzerman's intentions aren't to make serious additions to this team unless they're "Cup ready", that's a terrible strategy.

“Offseason signings were bad.”
Tarasenko and Gustafsson were short-term deals — low risk, possibly flippable at the deadline. As for Copp and Compher: every team needs middle-six depth and veteran centers who can play both ways. Overpaying slightly in free agency is normal — it’s not a Ken Holland mistake, it’s the price of insulating your youth.

Translation: More excuses for Yzerman's terrible offseason signings.

“The prospect pool has no elite talent.”
ASP is elite. Cossa is progressing well. Nate Danielson, Marco Kasper, Edvinsson, Mazur, Soderblom — that's not nothing. You don’t need a dozen elite guys. You need a core with supporting cast. The system has depth and upside. That’s how you sustain success.

ASP has the potential to be elite. Eveyrone else? Not so much. (If Cossa is progressing well, then why he is not with the team now? Why is Detroit actually content to go into next year with an aging Talbot and Mrazek's 3.50 GAA?)

“Fan patience is dwindling — he should be fired.”
Yzerman inherited a mess and has built a team that today is sniffing the playoffs with cap flexibility, a deep prospect pool, and key players (like Seider and Raymond) already in place. You want to throw that away because the timeline isn’t moving fast enough for you?

Oh look the "look what he inherited" excuse.

Irrelevant. It's year 6. This is a business. Start producing results, or you're fired.

(The majority of the fanbase feels the timeline isn't moving fast enough. Your kind, aka the "trust the Yzerplan" simps, is shrinking rapidly with each passing year.)

This isn’t NHL 24. Building a sustainable contender in the modern NHL takes time, patience, and smart decisions — not knee-jerk trades to chase a wildcard spot. Yzerman’s not perfect, but saying he “should have been fired by now” is just reactionary noise.

The Red Wings haven't made the playoffs since 2017. The time for patience is over.

You're free to continue to have that patience - something you don't get to do is get offended when fans start demanding more (like a single playoff spot after literally the longest drought in the team's near 100 year history) and are no longer content to "just wait for the kids", which is nothing but pure hopium.

Funny how the guy calling for Yzerman’s job still hasn’t built a coherent take in seven years. If patience isn’t your thing, maybe hockey’s not either—try microwave popcorn.

You're picking up your own scent with that take. This is the part where you need to recognize that you and everyone else continuing to bleat "trust the Yzerplan" who are content to wait until 2030 for the Red Wings to be back in the playoffs are in the extreme minority.

We've been patient enough. Take off the Yzerman jammies from 1998, turn off the 2002 Stanley Cup DVD, and start living in 2025.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If Cossa is progressing well, then why he is not with the team now? Why is Detroit actually content to go into next year with an aging Talbot and Mrazek's 3.50 GAA?)

# of U23 goalies who have played >15 games this season: 0

23 or 24 is pretty normal age for goalies to start to enter the NHL for real. No doubt Cossa will be getting plenty of chances next season.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

# of U23 goalies who have played >15 games this season: 0

23 or 24 is pretty normal age for goalies to start to enter the NHL for real. No doubt Cossa will be getting plenty of chances next season.

He'll have a chance to make the team in Camp, but both Talbot and Mrazek are under contract through 2027.

It sounds like at the very most, Detroit could potentially roll with 3 goalies like they did last season with Lyon/Husso/Reimer.

 

[saska sault]

He'll have a chance to make the team in Camp, but both Talbot and Mrazek are under contract through 2027.

It sounds like at the very most, Detroit could potentially roll with 3 goalies like they did last season with Lyon/Husso/Reimer.

Talbot and Mrazek are expiring UFAs next year 2026 but Cossa joining and rolling with 3 goalies would not surprise me.

 

[Sensin5]

I wouldn't rate it as an incredible job. He's done around 5 trades and some signings.
He hasn't even been GM for two seasons and you gonna rate him as the super GM.
Yes his start has been encouraging I think, but earlier this year they were also down in the standings and lately been on a hot streak.


Nothing about blind loyalty. More about don't judging the work based off small sample sizes.
It still waits to be seen where things end up. Let's see in two years time where Ottawa is.

Yzerman's sample size is now quite long. That is more the point.

 

[Pavels Dog]

A proper rebuild does not take 6 (going on 7) years to yield a single playoff appearance if done correctly.

What would have been materially different if they won the tiebreaker last season and got in?

Does anything change?

As for how long "proper" rebuilds take, I think you're wrong.

Carolina missed the playoffs 9 years in a row.
Colorado missed 7 out of a 9 year stretch.
Dallas missed 8 out of a 10 year stretch.
New Jersey missed 9 out of a 10 year stretch.

Sharks will already be on 6 straight years outside.
Ducks 7 straight.
Both likely a few more years until they're competitive.

Getting into the playoffs once or twice in a 10 year stretch and getting absolutely destroyed in the 1st round can't be so valuable that you don't see that proper rebuilds take this long.

 

[thebestnic]

He'll have a chance to make the team in Camp, but both Talbot and Mrazek are under contract through 2027.

It sounds like at the very most, Detroit could potentially roll with 3 goalies like they did last season with Lyon/Husso/Reimer.

Mrazek is another of those moves that the bots will defend as inconsequential but has real impact by blocking prospects/cap space. There is a pattern there

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

If I said before the start of the year that DET would be 7 pts worse than last year's team I think most DRW fans would say I was being a hater and totally underestimating the steps their young players would make.

It's ridiculous to say that the progression has been steady and constantly moving forward when it literally is worse than the prior year.

1. It was pretty obvious that Detroit overachieved last year and most Wings fans during the offseason would tell you their offseason was mediocre. Yzerman signed a bunch of 1-2 year plugs.

2. Not really sure why "The steps their young players would make" is the target here. The young players did take steps. The vets we signed suck.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

who knows what happened? maybe he called larkin the N word.

“Not A 1C”?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Mrazek is another of those moves that the bots will defend as inconsequential but has real impact by blocking prospects/cap space. There is a pattern there

It is a prospect blocking move and it does get irritating the way Detroit has incessantly done that for two decades, now. That being said, I'm not sure it's so bad in this scenario. Simply a personal opinion of the position as a whole, but goalies are one you shouldn't rush and confidence plays a huge role. I'm OK not throwing Cossa in behind this God-awful defensive group to get hung out to dry and shelled every night because Chiarot/Petry/Holl/Gustaffson all suck ass at covering their man and clearing traffic in front of the net.

The cap is pretty inconsequential, though. Detroit will have over $20M and their only major FA is Kane. They'll have quite a few ELC (Edvinsson/Kasper/Mazur and possibly some of ASP/MBN/Danielson) and small bridges (AlJo/Soderblom) on the roster next year.

 

[thebestnic]

It is a prospect blocking move and it does get irritating the way Detroit has incessantly done that for two decades, now. That being said, I'm not sure it's so bad in this scenario. Simply a personal opinion of the position as a whole, but goalies are one you shouldn't rush and confidence plays a huge role. I'm OK not throwing Cossa in behind this God-awful defensive group to get hung out to dry and shelled every night.

The cap is pretty inconsequential, though. Detroit will have over $20M and their only major FA is Kane. They'll have quite a few ELC (Edvinsson/Kasper/Mazur and possibly some of ASP/MBN/Danielson) and small bridges (AlJo/Soderblom) on the roster next year.

It's just the fact that it keeps happening that would irk me if I was a fan. We have guys like Dvorak, Anderson etc that blocks prospects and it annoys me but those are Bergevin moves so I can't criticize Hughes yet

That being said I've been very critical of Yzerman in this thread, but I must admit that Ed,Kasper and Raymond have improved/shown more than I though they would. So it's not all doom and gloom even though I will remain skeptical until the pro scouting has turned a corner

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

It's just the fact that it keeps happening that would irk me if I was a fan. We have guys like Dvorak, Anderson etc that blocks prospects and it annoys me but those are Bergevin moves so I can't criticize Hughes yet

That being said I've been very critical of Yzerman in this thread, but I must admit that Ed,Kasper and Raymond have improved/shown more than I though they would. So it's not all doom and gloom even though I will remain skeptical until the pro scouting has turned a corner

I get that... But I also see the way Montreal rushed guys like Galchenyuk and KK, and even Slaf, to a degree, though he's improving, and can see the argument against it. At the end of the day I think it's two extremes of guys being put in the NHL before they're ready, and guys being left out of the NHL way too long, when there should be a happy medium.

The amateur scouting has been fantastic. The pro scouting needs to be completely nuked and reset.

 

[dekelikekocur]

It's just the fact that it keeps happening that would irk me if I was a fan. We have guys like Dvorak, Anderson etc that blocks prospects and it annoys me but those are Bergevin moves so I can't criticize Hughes yet

That being said I've been very critical of Yzerman in this thread, but I must admit that Ed,Kasper and Raymond have improved/shown more than I though they would. So it's not all doom and gloom even though I will remain skeptical until the pro scouting has turned a corner

Pro scouting is only as meaningful as you can get a UFA to sign a contract. It's not like there's a "signing board" where eligible UFAs are picked by an arbitrary picking order. Basically, if all that would consider signing in Det was a couple shitty UFAs and Det needs to fill a slot, said shitty UFA is kinda what their options are. I'm not keen on a lot of the UFA signings, but at the same time, gotta insulate the kids that do come up, thankfully none of the UFA signings are much duration and at most just mid term length contracts.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Pro scouting is only as meaningful as you can get a UFA to sign a contract. It's not like there's a "signing board" where eligible UFAs are picked by an arbitrary picking order. Basically, if all that would consider signing in Det was a couple shitty UFAs and Det needs to fill a slot, said shitty UFA is kinda what their options are. I'm not keen on a lot of the UFA signings, but at the same time, gotta insulate the kids that do come up, thankfully none of the UFA signings are much duration and at most just mid term length contracts.

I mean pro scouting is pretty indefensible. It's largely been a bunch of shit.

 

[dekelikekocur]

I mean pro scouting is pretty indefensible. It's largely been a bunch of shit.

Pro SIGNINGs have been shit, we literally have no idea who they've tried to sign and got passed by.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Pro SIGNINGs have been shit, we literally have no idea who they've tried to sign and got passed by.

I mean you have an example like Copp where it was pretty much publicly said that he was texting different Wings players before the TDL even opened about joining the team.

Then you have a move like trading for the ghost of Jeff Petry right after you just signed a mediocre RHD in Holl the month prior.

Then you trade Olli Maatta to make roster space for AlJo when you could've just not signed a wet fart like Erik Gustafsson.

We're also far removed from trades like JDLR for Fabbri or Leddy for Sunny and Walman. Haven't had a robbery like that in a few years now. We're the victim more often than not, anymore.