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Detroit Redwings Downfall

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NyQuil said:
He keeps getting hit in the face but not really.

Is the gap between Seider and Sanderson narrowing?
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Uh. Yes, absolutely. Why would we deny that your best D is your best D and is a franchise player?

Raymond’s been better than Stutzle for 2 seasons now. They’re 22 years old. A 2 year sample size is 50% of their time in this league. It matters, a lot.
 
Hazy Little Thing said:
I’ll concede there might be a poster or two of that ilk, but to the criticism of NA skaters drafted under Yzerman/Draper, can we get some defense of those?
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The highest pick in 2019 or 2020 they used on a NA skater was 54th overall. If you want to expect studs at those picks, go for it, but guys like that not panning out is expected. In 2021, all 3 of their first NA skaters drafted are trending really well. In 22, 113th overall looks like a potential player and in 23, there's 3 or 4 NA skaters trending towards NHL games.

The NA drafting has probably been "average", maybe even slightly above for where they've drafted North Americans. Their European drafting has been great.

But lets also not pretend this thread wasn't full of people shitting on the wings drafting, you moving the goal posts to only North America is pretty funny.
Nogatco Rd said:
I popped into the DRW board to check in on Söderblom since I remember he was getting a lot of hype on the “redwood line” a few years ago when he debuted. Everyone that responded said they figured he’d be back in Sweden soon enough and wasn’t likely to be a full time NHL’er.

Not sure you can really blame non-Wings fans for agreeing with the assessments from your own fanbase?
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Yep, and players develop. I'm a guy who goes to Grand Rapids and watches them play live. Soderblom was trending towards Sweden. Its why people in this thread writing off guys who are like 20-22 years old because Yzerman slow cooks them is pretty stupid. Yzerman has a long track record of drafting well, and the first round guys have all looked like. big hits, maybe give his late rounders more than a couple years to judge

NyQuil said:
Tim Stutzle: 339 GP 108G 193A 301 PTS 0.87 PPG
Lucas Raymond: 292 GP 92G 140A 232 PTS 0.79 PPG

But this season, he's a measly 4 points ahead, so that's it? Neck and neck? This season, sure.
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Neck and neck this season, sure. Raymond was better last year, objectively and there's not really an argument in Stutzles favour. This season, Raymond has likely been better by a hair but we can call it even if you want. Over this season and last, Raymond also has 17 more goals, 9 more even strength goals, more even strength points while playing 2 minutes less a game and 45 seconds less on the powerplay per game.

This season and last, Raymond has the edge, saying "this season, sure" is completely disingenuous

Its been a season and a half now of Raymond being better/on par. We can stop pretending Stutzle is a clear 1st in a redraft, and we can stop using career stats to try to make a point lol
 
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Pavels Dog said:
2020 redraft debates are getting old. I want to know, when do we start to push the narrative that Edvinsson should go #1 in a 2021 redraft...
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Can you imagine when he comes into camp next year with a couple more pounds of muscle on him? He said as much that he's going to look a lot different, he's still hasn't got his man strength yet.

I can see a Chris Pronger-esque defender punishing people for the next decade or more. Fun stuff on the horizon
 
newfy said:
The highest pick in 2019 or 2020 they used on a NA skater was 54th overall. If you want to expect studs at those picks, go for it, but guys like that not panning out is expected. In 2021, all 3 of their first NA skaters drafted are trending really well. In 22, 113th overall looks like a potential player and in 23, there's 3 or 4 NA skaters trending towards NHL games.

The NA drafting has probably been "average", maybe even slightly above for where they've drafted North Americans. Their European drafting has been great.

But lets also not pretend this thread wasn't full of people shitting on the wings drafting, you moving the goal posts to only North America is pretty funny.

Yep, and players develop. I'm a guy who goes to Grand Rapids and watches them play live. Soderblom was trending towards Sweden. Its why people in this thread writing off guys who are like 20-22 years old because Yzerman slow cooks them is pretty stupid. Yzerman has a long track record of drafting well, and the first round guys have all looked like. big hits, maybe give his late rounders more than a couple years to judge


Neck and neck this season, sure. Raymond was better last year, objectively and there's not really an argument in Stutzles favour. This season, Raymond has likely been better by a hair but we can call it even if you want. Over this season and last, Raymond also has 17 more goals, 9 more even strength goals, more even strength points while playing 2 minutes less a game and 45 seconds less on the powerplay per game.

This season and last, Raymond has the edge, saying "this season, sure" is completely disingenuous

Its been a season and a half now of Raymond being better/on par. We can stop pretending Stutzle is a clear 1st in a redraft, and we can stop using career stats to try to make a point lol
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Ryan Hartman has entered the chat…
 
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ShakenNotStirred said:
Can you imagine when he comes into camp next year with a couple more pounds of muscle on him? He said as much that he's going to look a lot different, he's still hasn't got his man strength yet.

I can see a Chris Pronger-esque defender punishing people for the next decade or more. Fun stuff on the horizon
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Seider is much more like pronger. Edvinsson is like a less offensively talented victor hedman. But he’s way better defensively at his age than hedman was at the same age.
 
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NyQuil said:
Tim Stutzle: 339 GP 108G 193A 301 PTS 0.87 PPG
Lucas Raymond: 292 GP 92G 140A 232 PTS 0.79 PPG

But this season, he's a measly 4 points ahead, so that's it? Neck and neck? This season, sure.
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He was better last season as well.

I don’t really care what someone did at 19

NyQuil said:
Detroit fans are all about sample selection.
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You mean the most recent sample of young players?

Or do you consider Hughes when he was 18/19 when evaluating him today too?
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
It'll take some time for people to even be willing to admit he might be better than Hughes.
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He's better than Luke Hughes today. He has the same number of points while playing 0 PP time, whereas Hughes gets 1:22 of PP time per game. He plays 1:44 per game on the PK while Hughes plays 0 PK time.

Hughes this year: QoC -0.108 (sheltered), 55.85% OZ starts.
Edvinsson this year: QoC 0.440 (among the highest in the entire NHL), 46.7% OZ starts.

One player is a good young defenseman developing in the NHL while playing sheltered minutes against below-average competition, and doing well in that usage. The other is a bonafide top-2/3 defenseman today, holding his own in among the hardest minutes in the entire league and has equal offensive output with zero PP time.

It's remarakable what Yzerman has done at the top of the draft from 2019-2022. 2019, the only player that could be argued as a better choice is Jack Hughes. 2020, Raymond has an argument. 2021, Edvinsson has an argument and in 2-3 years I think it'll be clear. 2022, the only players clearly better than Kasper are Cooley and Slafkovsky. At the end of it all, you could have 3 guys that have a solid argument for 1st in a redraft, and 1 guy that could go top 3-5. That's crazy.

To think, if we had won the lottery every single one of those years, we could have ended up with J. Hughes, Lafreniere, Power, and Slafkosvky. Overall a legitimately worse group given how much better Raymond is than Laf and Ed over Power. Incredible top 10 drafting that doesn't get enough credit.
 
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ShakenNotStirred said:
Yeah, he is still a kid. That's why I said wait till he gets his man strength and works out and eats. Everyone isn't born a Bo Jackson.

Seider/Edvinsson will be stacking bodies well into the 2030s. Imagine that!
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Adding weight doesn't change that Edvinsson doesn't lay people out the way Pronger did, and has never been that type of defenseman...
 
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