Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Samsquanch]

Just discuss the state of the DRW rebuild...the product on the ice...the prospects and the decisions made/avoided and thats it

Lol how about no, we can discuss whatever we would like. This ain't the Wings board chief.

If 90% of wings fans out there hadn't been trying to argue so hard that the Yzerplan was going exactly as planned these last 5 years, then this thread probably would not exist.

Now I'm hearing that it's coaching that's holding the team back. And not that they have a poorly constructed roster that's devoid of elite talent. And it feels like they are going in circles.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Lol how about no, we can discuss whatever we would like. This ain't the Wings board chief.

If 90% of wings fans out there hadn't been trying to argue so hard that the Yzerplan was going exactly as planned these last 5 years, then this thread probably would not exist.

Now I'm hearing that it's coaching that's holding the team back. And not that they have a poorly constructed roster that's devoid of elite talent. And it feels like they are going in circles.

Sorry I misunderstood the title of the thread sport..

Here I thought it was about the DRWs rebuild and not other teams..

My bad

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I agree with your point about shrewd trades making a big difference but I think people are unrealistic about the timelines. You point to Florida as an example but Ekblad and Barkov were drafted 10 and 11 years before the Panthers won the cup. Additional examples include:

• Landeskog and Mackinnon were drafted 11 and 8 years before the avs won the cup.
• Hedman and Kucherov were drafted 11 and 7 years before Tampa won.

It's crazy, you look around the league and see countless examples like above, (caps, blues, Bruins, etc) and yet people expect yzerman to have turned this team in less than 5 years when the team he inherited had no semblance of a core.

Shit even looking at Vegas, which made many shrewd trades, Eichel and Theodore had been in the league for 8 years, Marchessault 10 years, etc. before they won the cup.

Yzerman will eventually get more aggressive but to suggest he already should have been is wild.

Patience has been the correct rebuilding path for Yzerman and the Detroit Red Wings.

Tampa was an elite team that made the cup finals in 2015. Colorado was a 100+ point team MacKinnon's rookie year.

No one was expecting Yzerman to create a cup winner by 2024, but it's 6 years into the Yzerplan, they're a cellar team, and there's very little upside to the roster. Not much potential waiting in the wings either.

It was obvious very early on that Tampa and Colorado were talented teams that were going to do great things, well before they won. Don't see that at all with Detroit.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Wings fans don’t think that.

Browse on the Wings board for one minute and you’ll see how we really feel.

I read through some of the where did the rebuild go wrong thread. Majority are drinking the kool-aid

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Lol how about no, we can discuss whatever we would like. This ain't the Wings board chief.

If 90% of wings fans out there hadn't been trying to argue so hard that the Yzerplan was going exactly as planned these last 5 years, then this thread probably would not exist.

Now I'm hearing that it's coaching that's holding the team back. And not that they have a poorly constructed roster that's devoid of elite talent. And it feels like they are going in circles.

Well if other fanbases listened to this is the first time they have failed the listed expectations and won’t improve year over year during the Yzerman plan that would help the discussion.

They started in a tough place and said they would draft and develop without a timeline but would try to improve incrementally while waiting on said prospects.

Other people can push a timeline, Yzerman never has publicly for a second. In fact he has been pretty transparent in his actual media availability rare as they are. That this would be a long undertaking especially without some luck (lottery and otherwise) during it.

The coaching staff needs to be swapped. His bad contracts still fall off to the cap explosion and developmental runways. People can hate the timeline but we are damn well committed to this path at this point. Our best three players are locked in for 25 million and the waste on this roster purges over the next two seasons.

You can tell me the sky is falling, certainly this year has been a disaster. But what he is attempting to do and said he would still has some logic. I don’t want him keeping the staff because of the culture developing this season, which is different if you consume the Wings all the time.

Cheap shots are easy, some older Wings fans have seen cup winners and model organizations, they take a long time to build without a lot of luck and you’re gonna need some luck period. I am discouraged by this season, but look forward to the changes that should start to happen. The pipeline and clean balance sheet for the actual window matter more in terms of the sky is falling talk.

 

[Sypher04]

To me the short answer is there has never been an Yzerplan. He’s flying by the seat of his pants and trying to build the team through free agency because he doesn’t have a good enough core

 

[BB88]

As a fan of a Western team that rarely watches Detroit and whose middling team embarrassed the Wings tonight…it’s worse than I thought.

But hey atleast they are making progress!!

Nobody should defend that mess but here we are

 

[GMR]

I read through some of the where did the rebuild go wrong thread. Majority are drinking the kool-aid

Some do, but there's a reason that thread is so many pages and growing by the minute.

And it's not because the majority are happy.

 

[stewy04]

Andrew Copp, Ben Chiarot, Jeff Petry, Tyler Motte, JT Compher... shall I keep going? Borderline elite talents.

Those are borderline nhlers

 

[StreetHawk]

My first page.lol Nothing but Xmas love for the Yzerplan.

FTR.. I was being serious. Tank it out. Keep Lalonde, trade Talbot for value, get Campbell up. Get that top 3 pick and start next season with that pick, ASP and Danielsson. Then fire Lalonde into the sun. Sign some good UFA's. You'd see a drastic improvement next season IMO and be beautifully setup for the next one.

I don't think any of the top picks will play right away. Maybe Martone due to his size. Only Cellibrini is playing from the 24 draft for example. Don't think this class is as good as the 23 class with Carlsson and Fantilli who also played right away.

UFAs, maybe a couple of very good players of a Guentzal level are out there each year. But, what would make a player of that caliber choose Detroit over other options at this point if the Wings tank worse than their current 72 point pace?

Can Det replicate what FLA has done with their pro scouting and find really good value in the FA market?

It was always going to be a painful process. Just bad luck for Det that they never hit it big with Elite players at the times they were really bad. Now, other clubs have been way worse at 60 point paces the past couple of seasons to secure the top picks in the lottery. But, their inability so far to find talent outside round 1 hurts.

 

[strattonius]

Yzerman's plan is to do absolutely nothing on the trade market and instead sit on draft capital and collect prospects. Then at free agency he signs a bunch of mid veteran players as placeholders. As someone pointed out, the Wings have acquired Debrincat and that's IT over the course of 6 years now.

Truly bizarre to me fans are still giving rope on a GM that is incapable of pro scouting better players in free agency and the trade market. He won't even fire his coach - like does this guy have a pulse?

 

[Dotter]

Lol how about no, we can discuss whatever we would like. This ain't the Wings board chief.

If 90% of wings fans out there hadn't been trying to argue so hard that the Yzerplan was going exactly as planned these last 5 years, then this thread probably would not exist.

Now I'm hearing that it's coaching that's holding the team back. And not that they have a poorly constructed roster that's devoid of elite talent. And it feels like they are going in circles.

"I'm hearing that it's coaching" <---- you just admitted that you don't watch any games, so why should anyone take your opinion seriously at all?

That being said, I am sure if Yzerman could take a time machine back to the past, he would select JJ Peterka over William Wallinder. Peterka's 10 goals would be HUGE for the DRWs right now!

I wouldn't mind have JJ Peterka. Not a game breaker or a franchise altering winger, but he would have been a better addition over the likes of Berggren.

 

[Dotter]

Well if other fanbases listened to this is the first time they have failed the listed expectations and won’t improve year over year during the Yzerman plan that would help the discussion.

They started in a tough place and said they would draft and develop without a timeline but would try to improve incrementally while waiting on said prospects.

Other people can push a timeline, Yzerman never has publicly for a second. In fact he has been pretty transparent in his actual media availability rare as they are. That this would be a long undertaking especially without some luck (lottery and otherwise) during it.

The coaching staff needs to be swapped. His bad contracts still fall off to the cap explosion and developmental runways. People can hate the timeline but we are damn well committed to this path at this point. Our best three players are locked in for 25 million and the waste on this roster purges over the next two seasons.

You can tell me the sky is falling, certainly this year has been a disaster. But what he is attempting to do and said he would still has some logic. I don’t want want him keeping the staff because of the culture developing this season, which is different if you consume the Wings all the time.

Cheap shots are easy, some older Wings fans have seen cup winners and model organizations, they take a long time to build without a lot of luck and you’re gonna need some luck period. I am discouraged by this season, but look forward to the changes that should start to happen. The pipeline and clean balance sheet for the actual window matter more in terms of the sky is falling talk.

Perhaps James Hagens (C) could be the missing ingredient they need.

My first page.lol Nothing but Xmas love for the Yzerplan.

FTR.. I was being serious. Tank it out. Keep Lalonde, trade Talbot for value, get Campbell up. Get that top 3 pick and start next season with that pick, ASP and Danielsson. Then fire Lalonde into the sun. Sign some good UFA's. You'd see a drastic improvement next season IMO and be beautifully setup for the next one.

I agree and I think that's what is happening. If Talbot stays healthy and gets hot, he has something to trade at TDL. James Hagens would look good in a winged wheel. He could be their version of "Jack Hughes"

 

[Il Stugotz]

This doesn’t really make sense, but lol if true

 

[saska sault]

This doesn’t really make sense, but lol if true

Makes no sense because its likely false. Lalonde is in year 3, I doubt he got much more term than that as a rookie head coach. If anyone can find me a legitimate "source" that found leaked info from Yzerman that became true... please share.

ALSO.

Merry Christmas HF peoples.

 

[OldCraig71]

I guess Julien Brisebois might have been the straw who stirred the drink.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I agree with your point about shrewd trades making a big difference but I think people are unrealistic about the timelines. You point to Florida as an example but Ekblad and Barkov were drafted 10 and 11 years before the Panthers won the cup. Additional examples include:

• Landeskog and Mackinnon were drafted 11 and 8 years before the avs won the cup.
• Hedman and Kucherov were drafted 11 and 7 years before Tampa won.

It's crazy, you look around the league and see countless examples like above, (caps, blues, Bruins, etc) and yet people expect yzerman to have turned this team in less than 5 years when the team he inherited had no semblance of a core.

Shit even looking at Vegas, which made many shrewd trades, Eichel and Theodore had been in the league for 8 years, Marchessault 10 years, etc. before they won the cup.

Yzerman will eventually get more aggressive but to suggest he already should have been is wild.

Patience has been the correct rebuilding path for Yzerman and the Detroit Red Wings.

Using a Cup win as the standard is a bit tricky. Lots of teams have contended for years but haven't won a Cup. Does that mean that they are "rebuilding" the whole time?

The Panthers drafted Barkov and Ekblad and missed the playoffs the 1st year they had both of them. They then made the playoffs the year after. So they made the playoffs 1 year of the first 5 with them. Those are the rebuilding years. Then they made the playoffs every year after that. Those are the contending years.

So if you start from Barkov it was 6 years of rebuilding and even in the period they made the playoffs once.

The Red Wings have had 5 years under Yzerman with no playoffs, and I think it's safe to say that they won't make it this year either. So that's about the same as Florida, who had that one outlier year where they lost in the 1st round.

But do we think that the Red Wings are going to make the playoffs next year? And the next 4 years after that with a Cup Final and a Cup win thrown in there?

 

[Hallonbroder]

Red Wings s**k, and it’s sad. Grew up with them being a dominant force. Their logo and jerseys stood for greatness and ’fun’. Had some, truly, great players.

What Yzerman’s done is…meh. People are counting on their prospects, but that’s a long-shot, even ASP. They never really committed to a full on rebuild, it feels like. Bunch of third-liners and 1-2 bright spots. Nowadays, they challenge the Sabres of being the most boring and sad franchise

 

[Dotter]

Using a Cup win as the standard is a bit tricky. Lots of teams have contended for years but haven't won a Cup. Does that mean that they are "rebuilding" the whole time?

The Panthers drafted Barkov and Ekblad and missed the playoffs the 1st year they had both of them. They then made the playoffs the year after. So they made the playoffs 1 year of the first 5 with them. Those are the rebuilding years. Then they made the playoffs every year after that. Those are the contending years.

So if you start from Barkov it was 6 years of rebuilding and even in the period they made the playoffs once.

The Red Wings have had 5 years under Yzerman with no playoffs, and I think it's safe to say that they won't make it this year either. So that's about the same as Florida, who had that one outlier year where they lost in the 1st round.

But do we think that the Red Wings are going to make the playoffs next year? And the next 4 years after that with a Cup Final and a Cup win thrown in there?

The disconnect is when you classify the "start" of the rebuild. It started before Barkov.

 

[RedHawkDown]

This is such an entertaining thread now. Everyone just stopping by to get their dig in. There’s not even any discussion left in here haha

 

[Dotter]

This doesn’t really make sense, but lol if true

Interesting. There was also rumors floating around that Chris Ilitch shut down the Stamkos signing. I find it hard to believe he'd be hands on. He's never included himself before.

But I am a firm believer where there's smoke, there's fire. Just like with the Walman trade... I believe he had undisclosed (perhaps toxic) personality issues that Yzerman wanted to quickly exile. Larkin's comment after the fact sort of confirms that. Then he suddenly and abruptly gets healthied' by Grier despite quality play.

I'm going to start paying more attention to the Chris Ilitch rumors. There might be something here.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The disconnect is when you classify the "start" of the rebuild. It started before Barkov.

So like posters were saying, the DRW rebuild started before SY,

 

[Dr Quincy]

The disconnect is when you classify the "start" of the rebuild. It started before Barkov.

They made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs the year before they had the bad season that got them Barkov.

 

[Dotter]

So like posters were saying, the DRW rebuild started before SY,

Correct. Yzerman was thrown into a failed rebuild and had to start over scorch earth style. He had very little assets to work with.

He loaded up quickly with the likes of Seider, Raymond, and Edvinsson through great drafting. I think that is a fantastic start. It looks like he really wants to add to that core with James Hagens.

 

[SoupNazi]

Lol how about no, we can discuss whatever we would like. This ain't the Wings board chief.

Lol, how about we keep threads on-topic?

I’m telling you that as a moderator, btw.