Detroit Redwings Downfall

[cjm502]

Please point out to me the last NHL team that broke in 6 quality rookies in back to back seasons.

I think it is a lot rarer than you seem to think it is.

Red Wings for example have been in a rebuild for almost a decade and they only have one rookie making an impact this year, and he isn't even considered a rookie by the NHL's criteria.

I did not state nor imply how rare I think that is but its nice of you to assume for the sake of your own argument. Kasper has been playing outstanding hockey since being called up as well, but if you either didn't know that or disagree with that statement it simply tells me that you don't know much about the Red Wings.

When it comes to ASP, MBN, Cossa, Buchelnikov, Lombardi, and Danielson, one would think something would have had to go seriously wrong with their development not to be given a chance in two years. A tier lower in the prospect pool would be Mazur and Wallinder which have looked great in the AHL, its more likely then not that they end up in the NHL at some point. That is without even mentioning the prospects who are doing great that might be ready in 3-4 years if they continue to progress as they have been. The prospect pool is near the very top in the NHL, with some outlets having it as #1. A lot of players will be NHL ready within the next two years and the majority of the roster is made up of aging vets or lower line players (who are not that good at this point in time, hard to imagine them getting better as they age) who's contracts will be up within the next two years.

Point out the last time an NHL team has had this many good prospects ready to make an impact with an equal or more amount of vets on the way out.

 

[SirloinUB]

Please point out to me the last NHL team that broke in 6 quality rookies in back to back seasons.

I think it is a lot rarer than you seem to think it is.

Red Wings for example have been in a rebuild for almost a decade and they only have one rookie making an impact this year, and he isn't even considered a rookie by the NHL's criteria.

6 in back to back seasons is a stretch that no one is claiming they will do. Depending on how you categorize Berggren (79 NHL games coming into this year but only 12 last season as he spent most of the year in the AHL) the red wings are breaking in up to 4 rookies on their roster this season two of which are playing significant roles.

It is not farfetched to think they will be integrating guys like Cossa, MBN, ASP & Danielson + a couple others over the next 2 seasons.

Obviously Yzerman will be adding other guys.

Either way he seems to have acquired/retained:
- A star forward in Raymond
- A 1C in Larkin
- a 2nd top 6 winger in Debrincat
- a first pair D in Seider
- another 1st pair D in Edvinsson
- a middle 6 Center (with top 6 potential) in Kasper

On top of that, he's got a very good prospect pool that has both quality and depth. It's been a slow ass burn but Yzerman has built an excellent foundation.

For all the bitching about the playoff drought people forget that only 2 of Yzerman's draft classes are older than 21. Were ya'll expecting him to work some freaky jesus miracle and instantly turn water into wine?

 

[Nogatco Rd]

He's not getting fired, I can already tell you that. You don't have to wonder.

Maybe he meant Chris

"He could have traded Walman for another good young player." No, apparently he couldn't have. Unless you're actually suggesting a single team in the league was offering that and he turned it down so he could give up a 2nd.

You can criticize the move and deservedly so, but this statement is just ignorant.

Disagree, it’s not at all uncommon for teams to turn down stronger offers from division/conference rivals, especially so with younger players

 

[Czechboy]

Kasper has been playing outstanding hockey

What metric am I missing here? Or did I get the wrong player by accident? Marco Kasper?

I think he'll be a very good player but 'playing outstanding hockey'?

 

[cjm502]

View attachment 948455

What metric am I missing here? Or did I get the wrong player by accident? Marco Kasper?

I think he'll be a very good player but 'playing outstanding hockey'?

The guy is an absolute work horse and looks like a pain in the ass to play against, Kasper is a dog. Some players can still be highly effective when they aren't producing a lot, and I would argue that he has been one of teams more effective players despite the lack of production. Kasper has a better +/- then his most common linemates, and those linemates have a better +/- when they play with Kasper.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Man, they must be kicking themselves at trading Walman. 25 points in 29 games.

Yzerman was reportedly angered by the Gritty celebration. That's some Don Cherry "Hurricanes are a bunch of jerks" for having fun nonsense from him.

It will be interesting to see how much more time Yzerman is allowed to spend without results.

There are still people on here who think that Yzerman has unlimited runway and the window to even consider a postseason spot isn't until 2027 and "well, the first 3 years didn't count because he had to deal with Ken Holland's leftovers" and a bevy of other excuses.

 

[Dotter]

View attachment 948455

What metric am I missing here? Or did I get the wrong player by accident? Marco Kasper?

I think he'll be a very good player but 'playing outstanding hockey'?

Let's ignore the fact Kasper was 16 about 2.5 season's ago.

 

[Dotter]

Yzerman was reportedly angered by the Gritty celebration. That's some Don Cherry "Hurricanes are a bunch of jerks" for having fun nonsense from him.

Pretty sure whatever "rumor" you are regurgitating is fake news.

"Guys playing through injuries, guys laying it all out there, the focus when we went on the road within the team. There were some guys that didn't have that, and that was addressed in the offseason, and we've got a ton of guys that are committed. All of the guys that are here are committed." - Dylan Larkin

Seems to me the locker room didn't view him as a team player and wanted him gone.

 

[Czechboy]

Let's ignore the fact Kasper was 16 about 2.5 season's ago.

There is always that

 

[Frank Drebin]

Redundant point.

If i say he'll be 24 and you say 25, then we'll be both be correct. With the small detail that he'll be 24 for like 90% of the season.

Who is most correct? It's just a moot point tbh.

He used to be 23
He still is, but he used to be too

 

[Bank Shot]

Either way he seems to have acquired/retained:
- A star forward in Raymond
- A 1C in Larkin
- a 2nd top 6 winger in Debrincat
- a first pair D in Seider
- another 1st pair D in Edvinsson
- a middle 6 Center (with top 6 potential) in Kasper

On top of that, he's got a very good prospect pool that has both quality and depth. It's been a slow ass burn but Yzerman has built an excellent foundation.

I wouldn't say that is an excellent foundation.

I would say that is an average foundation for an NHL team.

I really don't see what separates them from Ottawa, Utah, San Jose, Buffalo, Seattle etc.

They are looking like an average middle of the pack rebuilding team.

 

[norrisnick]

I wouldn't say that is an excellent foundation.

I would say that is an average foundation for an NHL team.

I really don't see what separates them from Ottawa, Utah, San Jose, Buffalo, Seattle etc.

They are looking like an average middle of the pack rebuilding team.

Is that from your vast experience of watching a team that's basically a cinderblock stacked on a partially played game of jenga?

 

[Bank Shot]

Is that from your vast experience of watching a team that's basically a cinderblock stacked on a partially played game of jenga?

Keep lashing out because you can't handle any criticism. It looks good on you guys.

Maybe we can dig up a thread from 2021when Wings fans were calling out anyone doubting Zadina.

 

[norrisnick]

Keep lashing out because you can't handle any criticism. It looks good on you guys.

Maybe we can dig up a thread from 2021when Wings fans were calling out anyone doubting Zadina.

What criticism?

Everyone and everything is bad isn't criticism.

 

[Bank Shot]

What criticism?

Everyone and everything is bad isn't criticism.

I just said they have an average foundation.

For you to characterize that as saying everything and everyone is bad, is just histrionics on your part.

Feel free to play the victim, and lash out. It's not going to make the team any better. The stats tell the tale, and they said the Red Wings were still going to be bad this season. All the derision towards that in the offseason didn't alter this obvious outcome.

 

[norrisnick]

I just said they have an average foundation.

For you to characterize that as saying everything and everyone is bad, is just histrionics on your part.

Feel free to play the victim, and lash out. It's not going to make the team any better. The stats tell the tale, and they said the Red Wings were still going to be bad this season. All the derision towards that in the offseason didn't alter this obvious outcome.

Lashing out? Are you ok, my guy? Your account is basically an adult. You'd think you'd know what lashing out on the internet is.

You've been fair and balanced throughout this thread (and others)... Super insightful and poignant.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

They remind of the Hurricanes in mid 2010s with Ron Francis kind of having a "boring" rebuild building around some defenseman in Faulk and Slavin and by 2018 there was a feeling of when is this going to work... I think it worked out ok though they haven't broken through yet.

Difference though is the Canes advanced stats were extremely good before it started reflecting in the standings. They were a popular breakout pick for a couple years because of that.

 

[Bank Shot]

Lashing out? Are you ok, my guy? Your account is basically an adult. You'd think you'd know what lashing out on the internet is.

You've been fair and balanced throughout this thread (and others)... Super insightful and poignant.

I'm sorry that your team sucks and isn't getting better anytime soon.

Maybe if you get more mad about it, that will change the awful possession numbers.

Really after 6 years of rebuild, those numbers should have improved somewhat.

Wings do have something in common with the Oilers. They are on the same rebuild timeline for sure. Looking like 10+ years.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You have no idea what Jack Daniels and Brandy Egg Nog are going to be in the NHL...lol

People said that about Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson too.
Yes, we have some idea. Funny thing; actually watching the prospects play gives you some idea of what they can do in the NHL. It doesn't mean we can precisely pinpoint the exact numbers or timeline, but it's not a complete unknown either.

Who are the 6 above average NHLers Detroit is bringing in?

Why does everything need an answer set in stone?

Could be 2 UFAs, 1 via trade and 3 prospects. Sandin-Pellikka, Danielson and Brandsegg-Nygård certainly wouldn't be far fetched as players developing into good NHLers.

View attachment 948455

What metric am I missing here? Or did I get the wrong player by accident? Marco Kasper?

I think he'll be a very good player but 'playing outstanding hockey'?

One of the league's worst on-ice sh% for one. I'd also argue being 'only' a -2 as a full-time rookie center on a bad team with defensively inept wingers like Kane/Tarasenko/Berggren is also fairly impressive. His play has been good.

 

[Lampedampe]

-

 

[newfy]

View attachment 948455

What metric am I missing here? Or did I get the wrong player by accident? Marco Kasper?

I think he'll be a very good player but 'playing outstanding hockey'?

I wouldn't call him outstanding this year because the points basically haven't followed dhis level of play. But he's been really, really good and the thing about him is that with the way he plays, you can see that stat line and think he's really good.

If you watched him play a couple games instead of linking is hockeydb, you probably wouldn't have even quoted that post.

After a national game Bucci said "I don't see a reason why Kasper plays another game in the AHL. He gets around the ice, is attentive and competitive. He's a winner."

On this website, half the posters would call this a horrible pick because he didn't play in a junior league and put up 120 points. But he's already turning into a very good player, give him a year and an off-season of training and watch where he is

 

[Dotter]

I wouldn't call him outstanding this year because the points basically haven't followed dhis level of play. But he's been really, really good and the thing about him is that with the way he plays, you can see that stat line and think he's really good.

If you watched him play a couple games instead of linking is hockeydb, you probably wouldn't have even quoted that post.

After a national game Bucci said "I don't see a reason why Kasper plays another game in the AHL. He gets around the ice, is attentive and competitive. He's a winner."

On this website, half the posters would call this a horrible pick because he didn't play in a junior league and put up 120 points. But he's already turning into a very good player, give him a year and an off-season of training and watch where he is

Another thing about Kasper is he plays the right way during his transition to an upper level of hockey, and doesn't try to bloat his stats in lieu of player solid hockey.

He is a coaches dream and this is why so many GMs around the league had interest in him during his draft.

People forget he started his rookie season off slow in the AHL to the point where HFboard Nancy's were calling him a "bust". Then magically by the 2nd half he started putting it all together and shut up his critics. He was the best (or one of the best) AHL playoff performers on the team.

Whoever posted his hockeydb stats exposed their self as an outsider looking in. I don't see Kasper as more than a middle six center, but he is going to be a good one. The kind you need to win when it matters most! The kind GMs around the NHL salivate towards and want/need on their team to help push them over the top.

 

[izlez]

View attachment 948455

What metric am I missing here? Or did I get the wrong player by accident? Marco Kasper?

I think he'll be a very good player but 'playing outstanding hockey'?

If you want an actual answer to this, I'd point to his On Ice Shooting Percentage being 4.51% as to why his actual play has been better than the stat line suggests

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Disagree, it’s not at all uncommon for teams to turn down stronger offers from division/conference rivals, especially so with younger players

For star players - sure. But if Yzerman felt that Walman was a bad enough player/contract that he had to add a 2nd round DP to move him - why would he be concerned if Walman would be potentially sent to a conference rival?

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Saw Jack Campbell was called up as a backup earlier his month, what are the chances he gets a start this year?