Detroit Redwings Downfall

[BFLO]

The Blues didn’t tank for a 1st or 2nd overall pick.

Blues

Try reading my post again, but this time with your monitor or phone screens turned on.

Here. I'll help.

"9 out of the last 10 cup winners had a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster."

The 1 team that didn't have a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster was the Blues. No need for you to "correct" me when they were already accounted for.

VGK were the only team with a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster who didn't tank for them.

Wait, did Bruins have a top draft pick?

"9 out of the last 10 cup winners had a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster."

The Bruins won the cup 13 years ago, which means they were not one of the last 10.

 

[norrisnick]

And only 1 team to have picked top 5 in any of the last 10 drafts has won the Cup. So, just maybe it takes a lot longer than posters want to admit.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

Try reading my post again, but this time with your monitor or phone screens turned on.

Here. I'll help.

"9 out of the last 10 cup winners had a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster."

The 1 team that didn't have a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster was the Blues. No need for you to "correct" me when they were already accounted for.

VGK were the only team with a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster who didn't tank for them.

"9 out of the last 10 cup winners had a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster."

The Bruins won the cup 13 years ago, which means they were not one of the last 10.

This stat becomes a lot less meaningful once you realize that most teams in this league (23 out of 32) have a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster.

Ironically, the Wings do have a player drafted 1st overall on their roster, while the current best team in the league don't have anyone drafted before 7th.

 

[Protas Zealots]

Tarasenko must perform more.

Tarasenko is mediocre so far.

He is washed. They had all of last year to evaluate him. Hoping for anything above a savvy 50 point veteran player to be a 2nd line wheel/3rd line driver was wishful GMing.

 

[stl76]

Try reading my post again, but this time with your monitor or phone screens turned on.

Here. I'll help.

"9 out of the last 10 cup winners had a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster."

The 1 team that didn't have a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster was the Blues. No need for you to "correct" me when they were already accounted for.

VGK were the only team with a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster who didn't tank for them.

"9 out of the last 10 cup winners had a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster."

The Bruins won the cup 13 years ago, which means they were not one of the last 10.

Lol what’s with the attitude? Your first post was not particularly clear, multiple people misunderstood what you were trying to say.

 

[Chainshot]

I’ll feel a lot better once Lalonde is gone.

I'm surprised he's lasted this long honestly. NHL coaches are like motor oil, they get changed regularly.

 

[Finnen]

I wish the Detroit Red Wings back on the winning track like in the old days.

 

[BFLO]

Lol what’s with the attitude? Your first post was not particularly clear, multiple people misunderstood what you were trying to say.

I've grown impatient with people. My first post was perfectly clear. It's not surprising that multiple people misread it when slightly more than half the population in the US and Canada read at below a 6th grade level.

The very first sentence of my first post inferred the Blues as the 1 team of the last 10 cup winners to not have a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster. 2 people misread it and posted to tell me I forgot the Blues.

And another person posted to tell me I forgot the Bruins, despite the Bruins not being one of the last 10 cup winners.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'm surprised he's lasted this long honestly. NHL coaches are like motor oil, they get changed regularly.

For Lalonde, the goal is PO or he will get fired after 3 seasons. Currently at 18 points in 19 games. There's been 64 extra points awarded so true 0.500 for Det is 19 plus 2 (64 extra points over 32 teams is 2 each) for 21 points. Still within striking distance of WC.

If they fired him, who would be the Interim HC?

 

[Fatass]

Try reading my post again, but this time with your monitor or phone screens turned on.

Here. I'll help.

"9 out of the last 10 cup winners had a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster."

The 1 team that didn't have a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster was the Blues. No need for you to "correct" me when they were already accounted for.

VGK were the only team with a 1st or 2nd overall on the roster who didn't tank for them.

"9 out of the last 10 cup winners had a 1st or 2nd overall on their roster."

The Bruins won the cup 13 years ago, which means they were not one of the last 10.

So Yzerman needed to tank longer to get a 1 or 2 overall? Or Yzerman’s current rebuild isn’t going to work so it’s best to tank again?

 

[Dotter]

He is washed. They had all of last year to evaluate him. Hoping for anything above a savvy 50 point veteran player to be a 2nd line wheel/3rd line driver was wishful GMing.

You are looking at it all wrong. Yzerman isn't trying to get a 2016 Vladimir Tarasenko, nope. He is simply trying to get a heavier version of Daniel Sprong. Sprong only put up 43 points last season while Vlad put up 55.

I'll give you Tarasenko is only pacing for 34 points, but Sprong is only pacing for 23 points. Either player could heat up, but Sprong is less likely to heat up. Vlad brings more leadership and experience to the team.

Despite false echochamber narratives in this thread, Wings are still rebuilding just as Sens, Buff, Habs, Flyers, and probably even Devils in the east, I am not sold their rebuild is 'over' - though trying to break out. We can revisit that topic in January to avoid getting distracted from topic at hand.

I doubt UFA players are lining up to sign in Detroit until they start to look ready. They are currently in the 'marinating' stage of the rebuild as they have lots of nice young core pieces still developing in the system - it is imperative some hit... and I think some do as they are looking very, very promising!

 

[The411]

So Yzerman needed to tank longer to get a 1 or 2 overall? Or Yzerman’s current rebuild isn’t going to work so it’s best to tank again?

Both.

 

[JianYang]

You are looking at it all wrong. Yzerman isn't trying to get a 2016 Vladimir Tarasenko, nope. He is simply trying to get a heavier version of Daniel Sprong. Sprong only put up 43 points last season while Vlad put up 55.

I'll give you Tarasenko is only pacing for 34 points, but Sprong is only pacing for 23 points. Either player could heat up, but Sprong is less likely to heat up. Vlad brings more leadership and experience to the team.

Despite false echochamber narratives in this thread, Wings are still rebuilding just as Sens, Buff, Habs, Flyers, and probably even Devils in the east, I am not sold their rebuild is 'over' - though trying to break out. We can revisit that topic in January to avoid getting distracted from topic at hand.

I doubt UFA players are lining up to sign in Detroit until they start to look ready. They are currently in the 'marinating' stage of the rebuild as they have lots of nice young core pieces still developing in the system - it is imperative some hit... and I think some do as they are looking very, very promising!

You mention Ottawa in this rebuild mode. You are correct in saying that but the truth was that their GM came out a couple years ago and explicitly stated that the rebuild is over.

Clearly things have not gone as expected in Ottawa, and to this day they are still trying to unlock the code. We don't know exactly what detroit's expectations are but just looking at some of their moves in recent times, I did get the impression that they are at least trying to accelerate the rebuild, if not exit it.

To an extent, I suppose that has happened given that they were in contention for the playoffs up until game 82 last year, but the bottom seeds in the east weren't exactly that good to begin with either.

 

[Dotter]

You mention Ottawa in this rebuild mode. You are correct in saying that but the truth was that their GM came out a couple years ago and explicitly stated that the rebuild is over.

Clearly things have not gone as expected in Ottawa, and to this day they are still trying to unlock the code. We don't know exactly what detroit's expectations are but just looking at some of their moves in recent times, I did get the impression that they are at least trying to accelerate the rebuild, if not exit it.

To an extent, I suppose that has happened given that they were in contention for the playoffs up until game 82 last year, but the bottom seeds in the east weren't exactly that good to begin with either.

I can tell you exactly what Yzerman is trying to do. He is still rebuilding (or retooling), because I don't know if it's a "rebuild" if you are not trying to purposefully tank. I don't know if either title is appropriate here. But not firing the coach proves that Yzerman doesn't care about winning mode yet. He's probably salivating over the thought of getting a top 10 pick.

What Yzerman is trying to do is build a culture. Getting good young players through the draft doesn't mean you are suddenly good. You have to build a culture, that's the hardest part. That is the part where Sens fail over and over again. They are stuck in a losing culture with no idea how to break it. Yzerman was part of the 'dead things' era, so he knows all too well about a losing culture and how to escape it. His experience also turned Tampa around.

Yzerman isn't trying to accelerate the rebuild, he is dangling a carrot for the team to think they can win, while he's completely happy to sell vets and non-core players at TDL (if they are out of it) and continue to draft great players.

But his timeline is clear. All you have to do is look at their salary cap to see when these placeholder contracts expire. That's all they are, he isn't trying to really win, just build a culture.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

They lost again today

 

[RedWingzz]

it is so hard to be a "fan" of this team

flat out depressing to be honest...

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Wait, did Bruins have a top draft pick?

Last time they won they had Seguin in a limited role.

 

[kylek023]

Tarasenko looking like another bad yearly a FA signing by Yzerman.

 

[Dotter]

Red Wings coach needs to get fired before this team can take a step forward. He lost the team. He's ineffective and he's as stubborn as helmet wearing crooked eye'd drooling idiot trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Useless.

Yzerman drafted some fine players ready for their chance in the bigs. Keep an eye on this Amadeus Lombardi kid. Drafted in the 4th round. Only listed at 5'11" / 180ibs, but he's got some sick hands.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

I can tell you exactly what Yzerman is trying to do. He is still rebuilding (or retooling), because I don't know if it's a "rebuild" if you are not trying to purposefully tank. I don't know if either title is appropriate here. But not firing the coach proves that Yzerman doesn't care about winning mode yet. He's probably salivating over the thought of getting a top 10 pick.

What Yzerman is trying to do is build a culture. Getting good young players through the draft doesn't mean you are suddenly good. You have to build a culture, that's the hardest part. That is the part where Sens fail over and over again. They are stuck in a losing culture with no idea how to break it. Yzerman was part of the 'dead things' era, so he knows all too well about a losing culture and how to escape it. His experience also turned Tampa around.

That's all they are, he isn't trying to really win, just build a culture.

I see. So, what separates Detroit's successful rebuild and Ottawa's failing rebuild is that Detroit is "building a culture", but "not trying to really win", while Ottawa is floundering because they have a "losing culture".

That distinction probably explains the large gap between the two teams in the standings, with Detroit being an impressive 8-10-2, while Ottawa has a disappointing 8-11-1.

Yzerman isn't trying to accelerate the rebuild, he is dangling a carrot for the team to think they can win, while he's completely happy to sell vets and non-core players at TDL (if they are out of it) and continue to draft great players.

I'm sure he would be happy to sell vets at TDL, but unfortunately all the non-core players he brought to the team are either underperforming, or overpaid, or both. Currently the Wings have no good deadline bait, and are unlikely to recoup any significant asset for them.

But his timeline is clear. All you have to do is look at their salary cap to see when these placeholder contracts expire.

Those placeholder contracts expire within 2-3 years. Which means that within that timeframe, the Wings will need at least another 4 good top-9 forwards, another 2-3 reliable Dmen, and a starting goaltender, just to approach contention.

Based on your posts, you seem very confident that all those players can come from the Wings's prospect pool. I think that's an extremely unrealistic expectation, for any development system.

 

[TheOrganist]

I can’t imagine the strange looking bald man will have a job on Monday morning.

 

[Dotter]

I see. So, what separates Detroit's successful rebuild and Ottawa's failing rebuild is that Detroit is "building a culture", but "not trying to really win", while Ottawa is floundering because they have a "losing culture".

That distinction probably explains the large gap between the two teams in the standings, with Detroit being an impressive 8-10-2, while Ottawa has a disappointing 8-11-1.

I think the biggest distinction is one GM (Yzerman) said be patient because it's going to be a long rebuild.
8-10-2 looks like well on their way to select some more nice prospects.

Whereas the other GM (Sens) announced the rebuild was officially over and they are ready to compete. 8-11-1 doesn't look too promising at competing to me.

-I'm sure he would be happy to sell vets at TDL, but unfortunately all the non-core players he brought to the team are either underperforming, or overpaid, or both. Currently the Wings have no good deadline bait, and are unlikely to recoup any significant asset for them.

Why do they need "significant" assets in return? I'm sure the goalies will return some nice assets however. Playoff teams love depth, especially cheap depth. Yzerman can retain any amount of cap depending on the return.

-Those placeholder contracts expire within 2-3 years. Which means that within that timeframe, the Wings will need at least another 4 good top-9 forwards, another 2-3 reliable Dmen, and a starting goaltender, just to approach contention.

You say Wings need 4 good top 9 forwards and a few dmen and a starting goalie. Have you seen the prospect pool? If you are a DRWs fan, there's plenty in the system to be excited about. It'd be redundant if I list them all, but many look very promising. There's young players in this system that should be on the roster right now, but Yzerman is over ripening.

Do you follow Detroit's prospect pool? I would say it is underrated, but they are touted by almost every reputable NHL site as being top 5 in the league. So I guess they are not really underrated, but probably not followed by casual fans. It'd be disappointing if those players don't hit; Danielson, MBN, Cossa, ASP, one of Lombardi/Mazur/Buchelnikov/Kiiskinen. etc.

-Based on your posts, you seem very confident that all those players can come from the Wings's prospect pool. I think that's an extremely unrealistic expectation, for any development system.

I think when the time is right, Yzerman will use his special trading skills and go hunting with some draft capital. The time isn't right just yet. He is letting the prospects marinate. Like you said above, placeholder contracts don't expire for another 2-3 years.