Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings 2021 Summer Prospect #4

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Who do you think is the Detroit Red Wings #4 Overall Prospect?

  • Shai Buium

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Elmer Soderblom

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Antti Tuomisto

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Eemil Viro

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • William Wallinder

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    184
  • Poll closed .

Ed Ned and Leddy

Brokering the Bally Sports + Corncob TV Merger
Apr 1, 2019
3,803
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Detroit to DC
This is a tough one for me, I really went back and forth. I have Cossa/Berggren/Veleno really neck and neck here, could wake up and rank them in any order. Johansson is chasing the podium just behind them.

Comparing goalies to skaters is tricky enough, especially when one is entering his D+1 while the others are entering their D+4s. I try to break the gridlock by asking myself, "Who are you most reluctant to see go in a trade?"

Losing Veleno would sting, I really like the player. But I think we have a bit of what he brings to the table on the roster with guys like Larkin, Suter, and we'll see where Rasmussen is this year. We need another center as good or hopefully better than Larkin of course, but in terms of middle-six center depth I don't think we're desparate.

Losing Berggren would be tough, it essentially puts all of the our hopes in terms of creativity/vision/playmaking from the wing on Lucas Raymond. Bertuzzi can also bring a bit of that, but is he here for the long haul? I'm not sure. I really do hope he can be the top six playmaker we hope, that would be a sight for sore eyes.

Losing Cossa essentially depletes our goaltender depth after Ned. Coin flip between Cossa and Berggren really, but I'm going to give it to the goaltender because he impressed in my Oil Kings viewings and it doesn't look like my vote is going to be the deciding one.

Fun note - it looks like Veleno and Johansson are set to be our 6th and 7th ranked prospects respectively. I think they're top five prospects for any team in the league bar maybe the Kings or Ducks. I think they're top three for like half the league. That's before looking at several promising second round picks like McIsaac, Tuomisto, Mastrosimone, Wallinder, Niederbach, Buium, etc.

It's good to keep expectations measured, but we really have built up a strong prospect pool here. Couple that with our cap space and a good GM at the wheel and I think things are going to turn around here.
 

simonedvinsson

Registered User
May 26, 2020
760
1,300
Le sigh. You're probably right. Those Veleno, Niederbach and Johansson voters really handed this one to Cossa. :sarcasm:

I think it's probably safe to say we can start the next thread at #6 since there's been so much discussion about Berggren in the #3 and #4 thread.
@The Zetterberg Era , make it so!
Berggren will almost certainly win, but it'll be interesting to see how the votes break down for those of us coming off the Cossa train.
 
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Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Berggren will almost certainly win, but it'll be interesting to see how the votes break down for those of us coming off the Cossa train.

Veleno vs Johansson might get heated again.

steve-carell-anchorman.gif
 
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ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
15,355
7,749
Berggren has ranked ahead of Cossa in pretty much every ranking post draft. Hockeywriters, Athletic, Reddit's poll.

But Berggren fans are "rabid" and unreasonable.


ah yes the ranking that left Johansson outside of the Wings top 10,the ranking that left Seider outside the league top 10, and Reddit

I wonder who gets more Adversity Pointstm

Berggren for not growing up rich or whatever it was or Cossa for having to move as a kid due to a wildfire
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,471
4,591
Boston, MA
Re-read the post before the one where I brought up other sources. There's a 5-6 vote difference here between the supposed "reasonable" and "unreasonable" people.
And those who lean Berggren are the ones holding a minority opinion?

2021 Detroit Red Wings Prospects: Top Shelf Prospects Series
Berggren #4, Cossa #5

NHL top 50 prospects, 2021 edition: Byfield, Caufield and Power headline Wheeler’s drafted skaters ranking
Berggren #48, Cossa mentioned as not being in the top 50

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-prospect-rankings-post-2021-draft/
Berggren #4, Cossa #5

Reddit - Berggren #4, Cossa #5

Btw Reddit is a larger and more active community than this. Their prospect pools get on average 3-4 times the votes these polls do, if not more.
The Athletics' list ranked goalies separately, so clearly he wouldn't be in the top 50 skaters. Adding 3 goalies to the list likely pushes Berggren outside of the top 50. Last word is a joke. So you have THW. Same as before.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
41,148
11,941
Ft. Myers, FL
Re-read the post before the one where I brought up other sources. There's a 5-6 vote difference here between the supposed "reasonable" and "unreasonable" people.
And those who lean Berggren are the ones holding a minority opinion?

2021 Detroit Red Wings Prospects: Top Shelf Prospects Series
Berggren #4, Cossa #5

NHL top 50 prospects, 2021 edition: Byfield, Caufield and Power headline Wheeler’s drafted skaters ranking
Berggren #48, Cossa mentioned as not being in the top 50

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-prospect-rankings-post-2021-draft/
Berggren #4, Cossa #5

Reddit - Berggren #4, Cossa #5

Btw Reddit is a larger and more active community than this. Their prospect pools get on average 3-4 times the votes these polls do, if not more.

Wheeler separated out the goalies if I remember right.
 

jfrank21

Registered User
Oct 1, 2009
1,161
1,446
The hell are you even on about? You have one list and Reddit as your source. That's cool. People on HF on average don't agree with it. The only thing ridiculous here are the Berggren slappies who say "His floor is Nyquist".
Lol, how's that Seider teeth gnashing going for you? It was a fun trip down memory lane going through that thread. I'm actually surprised that you're still with us...
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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I kinda expected that. There are a lot of rabid Berggren fans. They were voting hard for him early on in these polls and were the first voters to depart from Edvinsson at #3. But most people who voted Edvinsson are the reasonable fans who naturally moved on to Cossa for #4, while all the Berggren voters obviously stayed with Berggren. Frank Luntz and Nate Silver actually predicted this.

This is going in the Bench "Plays of the Week" Thread presented by Amway.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,471
4,591
Boston, MA
Lol, how's that Seider teeth gnashing going for you? It was a fun trip down memory lane going through that thread. I'm actually surprised that you're still with us...
Oh, wow, I was wrong! Imagine that. Anyone who turns tail and runs for being wrong about something is probably wrong most of the time. I am just a fan, and I work with the information I have. It tells me a lot more about you that your first instinct when you're wrong is to take off.
 

jfrank21

Registered User
Oct 1, 2009
1,161
1,446
I kinda expected that. There are a lot of rabid Berggren fans. They were voting hard for him early on in these polls and were the first voters to depart from Edvinsson at #3. But most people who voted Edvinsson are the reasonable fans who naturally moved on to Cossa for #4, while all the Berggren voters obviously stayed with Berggren. Frank Luntz and Nate Silver actually predicted this.
I voted Ed at 3. To me, Berggren makes more sense based on his body of work than a goalie who got to post inflated numbers against the weakest division in his league inside a rona bubble, hasn't even been tested in the playoffs in said junior league, and has played in virtually no major international tournaments to date. He still has a chance to do most of those things, and I'm hoping he does well when the time comes...but to proudly proclaim from the mountain tops that he is a future all star and is a better overall prospect than our more proven guys is definitely "new toy syndrome" to me.
 
Last edited:

jfrank21

Registered User
Oct 1, 2009
1,161
1,446
Oh, wow, I was wrong! Imagine that. Anyone who turns tail and runs for being wrong about something is probably wrong most of the time. I am just a fan, and I work with the information I have. It tells me a lot more about you that your first instinct when you're wrong is to take off.
Just saying, for someone who is so clueless about players, to be dumping on other people's opinions takes a pair. That's all. Never said I would go anywhere and I've been wrong plenty of times.
 
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RabidBadger

Mazur detractors will look like dummies!
Sep 9, 2007
3,401
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I kinda expected that. There are a lot of rabid Berggren fans. They were voting hard for him early on in these polls and were the first voters to depart from Edvinsson at #3. But most people who voted Edvinsson are the reasonable fans who naturally moved on to Cossa for #4, while all the Berggren voters obviously stayed with Berggren. Frank Luntz and Nate Silver actually predicted this.

Surely you jast?
 
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Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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I voted Ed at 3. To me, Berggren makes more sense based on his body of work than a goalie who got to post inflated numbers against the weakest division in his league inside a rona bubble, hasn't even been tested in the playoffs in said junior league, and has played in virtually no major international tournaments to date.

That's where much of the split comes from. Not everyone votes on who is furthest along, which are the primary arguments you're making. They are looking at the raw tools and project who has the biggest upside.

And for the record, Cossa's lack of games is certainly one of the things that gives me pause with him. I wish our goalie pick had a larger body of work ala Askarov last year.

He still has a chance to do most of those things, and I'm hoping he does well when the time comes...but to proudly proclaim from the mountain tops that he is a future all star and is a better overall prospect than our more proven guys is definitely "new toy syndrome" to me.

But I still think calling it "new toy syndrome" is pretty dismissive, I think. Cossa, despite my anxieties, displays every raw tool you could possibly want in an elite goalie.
 

jfrank21

Registered User
Oct 1, 2009
1,161
1,446
That's where much of the split comes from. Not everyone votes on who is furthest along, which are the primary arguments you're making. They are looking at the raw tools and project who has the biggest upside.

And for the record, Cossa's lack of games is certainly one of the things that gives me pause with him. I wish our goalie pick had a larger body of work ala Askarov last year.



But I still think calling it "new toy syndrome" is pretty dismissive, I think. Cossa, despite my anxieties, displays every raw tool you could possibly want in an elite goalie.
And that's why I'm hoping for the best!
 
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Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,471
4,591
Boston, MA
Just saying, for someone who is so clueless about players, to be dumping on other people's opinions takes a pair. That's all. Never said I would go anywhere and I've been wrong plenty of times.

Does it though? No one here has inside info, no one here works for an NHL team. Most of us are wrong as much as we are right. And again it says a lot about you thinking owning being wrong takes balls. For people with a spine, its really not hard at all.
 

jfrank21

Registered User
Oct 1, 2009
1,161
1,446
Does it though? No one here has inside info, no one here works for an NHL team. Most of us are wrong as much as we are right. And again it says a lot about you thinking owning being wrong takes balls. For people with a spine, its really not hard at all.
sick burn. you got me. im spineless! i do enjoy the stretch of logic that you applied, it makes about as much sense as your Seider evals.
 

MBH

Players Play
Jul 20, 2019
13,497
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redwingsnow.com
shiny new toy

6'6 goalie taken 15th overall
vs
5'11 winger taken 33rd overall

Yeah. Shiny new toy.
HockeyProspect's blackbook put Cossa as 7th best prospect in the draft - and HP generally does a nice job.
Dismissing Cossa as a shiny new toy when he's just been drafted to be a stud, core piece...It seems a bit crazy to me.
 

MBH

Players Play
Jul 20, 2019
13,497
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SE Michigan
redwingsnow.com
Re-read the post before the one where I brought up other sources. There's a 5-6 vote difference here between the supposed "reasonable" and "unreasonable" people.
And those who lean Berggren are the ones holding a minority opinion?

2021 Detroit Red Wings Prospects: Top Shelf Prospects Series
Berggren #4, Cossa #5

NHL top 50 prospects, 2021 edition: Byfield, Caufield and Power headline Wheeler’s drafted skaters ranking
Berggren #48, Cossa mentioned as not being in the top 50

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-prospect-rankings-post-2021-draft/
Berggren #4, Cossa #5

Reddit - Berggren #4, Cossa #5

Btw Reddit is a larger and more active community than this. Their prospect pools get on average 3-4 times the votes these polls do, if not more.

Reddit blows.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
20,483
16,015
Sweden
Reddit blows.
Last word is a joke. So you have THW. Same as before.
So to sum up..

People who rate Berggren > Cossa are =

- Jokes
- Unwashed
- Rabid
- Unreasonable
- Not perfect

This disqualifies their opinion.

Wheeler separated out the goalies if I remember right.
He commented that if he hadn't seperated the lists, 3 goalies would make the top 50 (i.e. not Cossa).
He seperated the lists only to be able to write about more than 2-3 goalies.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
20,483
16,015
Sweden
quick question

what's 48+3?
Expected this.

It's possible that Cossa would come in at #51 - pushing Berggren to #52.

However it's a very small possibility and it seems strange Wheeler would go out of his way to comment that only 3 goalies would get into the Top 50 if that was the case.
 

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