Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings 2021 Summer Prospect #3

[ricky0034]

Edvinsson by a lot

he's a lot closer to Raymond than he is to the others after this

 

[Pavels Dog]

These Berggren votes are weird to me. What criteria are you guys voting on that have him over two potential blue chippers? Just how close he is to being ready and his floor of being a sure middle sixer? Not criticizing your votes, just curious what you value when voting.

Expressen rated their 50 best SHL players twice the past season:

Seider was 9th, Berggren 13th.
Seider was 2nd, Berggren 9th

Aftonbladet did it once;

Berggren was 4th, Seider was 13th.

Prospects like William Eklund, Nils Lundkvist and Lucas Raymond were not close.

I think many underrate what Berggren actually did last season. He was a steal at the draft, should have been 1st round. If not for injuries he'd have a higher reputation.

I'll be very not surprised when people start raving about Berggren in training camp.

 

[Konnan511]

Berggren and then Edvinsson. Add Soderblom.

Way too many people sleeping on our most dynamic offensive player since Zetterberg.

 

[izlez]

I would have had Edvinsson at #2 and then Raymond at #3,

It gets harder after this

 

[ricky0034]

I hope people don't flip on Berggren the other way too hard once they see what he actually becomes

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Expressen rated their 50 best SHL players twice the past season:

Seider was 9th, Berggren 13th.
Seider was 2nd, Berggren 9th

Aftonbladet did it once;

Berggren was 4th, Seider was 13th.

Prospects like William Eklund, Nils Lundkvist and Lucas Raymond were not close.

I think many underrate what Berggren actually did last season. He was a steal at the draft, should have been 1st round. If not for injuries he'd have a higher reputation.

I'll be very not surprised when people start raving about Berggren in training camp.

For what it's worth, there was a lot of talk of Berggren being a potential top 15 pick in 2018. I thought the guy might slip some, but I wasn't expecting a fall into the early 2nd.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I'm of the belief the ranking should be based more heavily on ceiling with a modest inclusion of floor.

To me its Edvinsson followed by Cossa. Why? Because I believe those two(plus raymond and seider) have the high potential to be impactful star(note: not saying superstar) level NHL talents for 15 years.

After that it gets more interesting with a number of players clustered together.

 

[Frk It]

Cossa/Berggren/Veleno will be a debate for me at #4.

#3 is not that.

I actually think I had Veleno and Berggren rated about where Cossa was taken in their drafts IIRC, so they are all pretty close for me.

 

[izlez]

Cossa/Berggren/Veleno will be a debate for me at #4.

#3 is not that.

I actually think I had Veleno and Berggren rated about where Cossa was taken in their drafts IIRC, so they are all pretty close for me.

No Johannson in that group for you? I think those 4 are all close and I change my mind by the day, but today I have Johannson up next

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He had a very good season in the SHL.

I will say I'm surprised to see a contingent of fans here who rate him above Raymond and Edvinsson. My sentiment lines up pretty closely with what TZE wrote above, and realistically I see him as a middle six playmaker. Of course I hope his biggest believers are right - it'd be a real boon for our rebuild.

It wasn't just a very good season. It was a phenomenal season.

The players under age 21 that had better seasons than Berggren's 45 points in 49 games:

Kent Nilsson x 2 (54 and 47)
Elias Pettersson (56)
David Rundblad (50)
Oskar Lindblom ( 47)
Peter Forsberg (47)
Henrik Sedin (47)
Henrik Zetterberg (46)

That's good company to be in. (Save for Rundblad. I don't know what the hell happened to him)

 

[Hen Kolland]

Expressen rated their 50 best SHL players twice the past season:

Seider was 9th, Berggren 13th.
Seider was 2nd, Berggren 9th

Aftonbladet did it once;

Berggren was 4th, Seider was 13th.

Prospects like William Eklund, Nils Lundkvist and Lucas Raymond were not close.

I think many underrate what Berggren actually did last season. He was a steal at the draft, should have been 1st round. If not for injuries he'd have a higher reputation.

I'll be very not surprised when people start raving about Berggren in training camp.

You won't be very surprised when people start raving about him? Of course you won't, because people are still very excited about him even if they don't grade him as the #2 or #3 prospect in the pipeline. Don't mistake the arguments people are making for disliking Berggren; everyone is anxious to see what he looks like in camp.

We all hope it's as seamless of a transition to superstardom as you and Ogee seem to believe it will be.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Went with Cossa here. It comes down to probability of reaching upside for me at this point. I think you can make a case for about four different players here, and ultimately, I think Cossa has a better chance of being a starting goalie than Edvinsson does to be a top pair guy. So Cossa is my choice here.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You won't be very surprised when people start raving about him? Of course you won't, because people are still very excited about him even if they don't grade him as the #2 or #3 prospect in the pipeline. Don't mistake the arguments people are making for disliking Berggren; everyone is anxious to see what he looks like in camp.

We all hope it's as seamless of a transition to superstardom as you and Ogee seem to believe it will be.

No way "Hen Kolland" (if that is in fact your real name) - you're not getting on this Berggren train once it leaves the station. You'll be riding the Raymond bus all the way to Grand Rapids.

 

[Ezekial]

No way "Hen Kolland" (if that is in fact your real name) - you're not getting on this Berggren train once it leaves the station. You'll be riding the Raymond bus all the way to Grand Rapids.

JB making the team out of camp and Raymond going to GR doesn't automatically make JB the better prospect though.

 

[Hen Kolland]

No way "Hen Kolland" (if that is in fact your real name) - you're not getting on this Berggren train once it leaves the station. You'll be riding the Raymond bus all the way to Grand Rapids.

This is a bold proclamation coming from an English speaking Russian dog that learned how to use a computer...

 

[Kingpin794]

Picked Cossa. I don't trust Edvinsson's upside. In time, these guys might switch on my personal list, but this is where I'm at right now.

 

[Christoph53]

Edvinsson for me easily. #4 is where the fun begins imo.

I'd add Söderblom

 

[Syckle78]

Went with Cossa here. It comes down to probability of reaching upside for me at this point. I think you can make a case for about four different players here, and ultimately, I think Cossa has a better chance of being a starting goalie than Edvinsson does to be a top pair guy. So Cossa is my choice here.

But top pairing defenseman and starting goalie aren't equal accomplishments. Top pairing defensmen are pretty much stars in the league. A starting goalie can range anywhere from Carey Price to Martin Jones. A second pairing defenseman could still be a more valuable player than even a middling starting goalie.

 

[r0bert8841]

Does the Berggren crowd actually think his game style will translate well to North America? All the arguments about him are about him numbers last year, but I think its more likely he ends up like Pulkkinnen (despite completely different playing styles) than Hudler. (I picked those two players because they were both putting up great numbers in Europe but definitely didn't play an North American styled game, not because of similarities in skill set. )

 

[BSHH]

I must be late to the party but I'll still ask... Why doesn't Veleno have more votes?

After reading all the postings and really enjoying the Berggren-debate, I did choose Veleno. He may not have first line-upside, but still a slim chance to become a solid 2C (which is very valuable) and a decent chance to become a very good 3C, since he is already used to Northern American pro hockey.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Henkka]

Does the Berggren crowd actually think his game style will translate well to North America? All the arguments about him are about him numbers last year, but I think its more likely he ends up like Pulkkinnen (despite completely different playing styles) than Hudler. (I picked those two players because they were both putting up great numbers in Europe but definitely didn't play an North American styled game, not because of similarities in skill set. )

Hudler was a playmaker with bad skating. Pulkkinen was a shooter.

Berggren is fast-skating playmaker, should work in NHL. I don't expect him ever being 1st line material, but middle6 offensive forward, just like Gustav Nyquist was.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

It wasn't just a very good season. It was a phenomenal season.

The players under age 21 that had better seasons than Berggren's 45 points in 49 games:

Kent Nilsson x 2 (54 and 47)
Elias Pettersson (56)
David Rundblad (50)
Oskar Lindblom ( 47)
Peter Forsberg (47)
Henrik Sedin (47)
Henrik Zetterberg (46)

That's good company to be in. (Save for Rundblad. I don't know what the hell happened to him)

It's a nice stat. I think it would be more compelling to me if I saw a larger body of forwards playing their D+3 seasons in the SHL to compare to Berggren side-by-side.

Off my head, and a couple quick searches, Petersson, Zibanejad, Forsberg, Arvidsson, Wennberg, Nylander, and Lindholm had come over to NA prior to their D+3 seasons (many of them prior to their D+2). A lot of other Swedish forwards played NCAA or CHL hockey, like Nyquist, Landeskog, Burakovsky, and Rakell.

So realistically, who was Berggren's head-to-head competition for that stat? Most quality Swedish forwards I can think of did not play their D+3 in the SHL. For what it's worth, I think that William Karlsson and Jakub Silfverberg did, if I read correctly, so it's not no one. But for an offensive-minded forward prospect with NHL top 6 ambitions, I think Berggren really had to produce well in the SHL this year. He did, and I'm glad. But I don't see his D+3 production as this incredible production spike that others seem to have really latched onto.

I've said before, that stat reminds me of when Axel Holstrom beat the Sedins' SHL point record. Folks were ready to pencil him in as a 2C and he never even sniffed the NHL.

Berggren obviously doesn't have Holstrom's skating deficiencies, but he has other obstacles, primarily in size and strength. I think he'll be a better player than Axel Holmstrom. But I still think people need to pump the brakes when it comes to SHL production. It is miles, miles worse as a league than the NHL.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Does the Berggren crowd actually think his game style will translate well to North America? All the arguments about him are about him numbers last year, but I think its more likely he ends up like Pulkkinnen (despite completely different playing styles) than Hudler. (I picked those two players because they were both putting up great numbers in Europe but definitely didn't play an North American styled game, not because of similarities in skill set. )

Yes.

Why is there this thought that he's a soft floater that can't adjust to the fast pace of the North American game?

Also Berggren is a superior skater to either player you mentioned. Hudler was a successful NHLer despite the skating. Pulkkinen was a failure because of his inability to improve skating. Those comparables are not good at all
.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It's a nice stat. I think it would be more compelling to me if I saw a larger body of forwards playing their D+3 seasons in the SHL to compare to Berggren side-by-side.

Off my head, and a couple quick searches, Petersson, Zibanejad, Forsberg, Arvidsson, Wennberg, Nylander, and Lindholm had come over to NA prior to their D+3 seasons (many of them prior to their D+2). A lot of other Swedish forwards played NCAA or CHL hockey, like Nyquist, Landeskog, Burakovsky, and Rakell.

So realistically, who was Berggren's head-to-head competition for that stat? Most quality Swedish forwards I can think of did not play their D+3 in the SHL. For what it's worth, I think that William Karlsson and Jakub Silfverberg did, if I read correctly, so it's not no one. But for an offensive-minded forward prospect with NHL top 6 ambitions, I think Berggren really had to produce well in the SHL this year. He did, and I'm glad. But I don't see his D+3 production as this incredible production spike that others seem to have really latched onto.

I've said before, that stat reminds me of when Axel Holstrom beat the Sedins' SHL point record. Folks were ready to pencil him in as a 2C and he never even sniffed the NHL.

Berggren obviously doesn't have Holstrom's skating deficiencies, but he has other obstacles, primarily in size and strength. I think he'll be a better player than Axel Holmstrom. But I still think people need to pump the brakes when it comes to SHL production. It is miles, miles worse as a league than the NHL.

Bro, most of those numbers I posted WERE guys in their D+3 years. A couple of them were D+2 years.

EDIT: And when did Axel Holmstrom beat the Sedins point record?
Axel Holmström at eliteprospects.com
In J18's? We're talking about men's pro hockey. Again, this is a bad argument.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Accidentally hit Johansson, but it is Edvinsson for me, easily. Still stoked that we got him.