Proposal: (DET/TOR) Määttä Holl 3rd for Järnkrok Liljegren

[lanceuppercut75]

to Toronto Maple Leafs
--- Olli Määttä (1y @ $3.0m)
--- Holl (50% retained) (2y @ $1.7m)
--- 2024 DET 3rd Round Pick
(edit - possibly DET adds another small piece? maybe?)
CAP HIT AFTER = $4.7m
CAP HIT BEFORE = $4.7m (if we assume $2.6m for Liljegren)

to Detroit Red Wings
--- Calle Järnkrok (2y @ $2.1m)
--- Timothy Liljegren (RFA... let's say $2.6m?)
--- ( retaining $1.7m cap on Holl )
CAP HIT AFTER = $6.4m (if we assume $2.6m for Liljegren)
CAP HIT BEFORE = $6.4m

If RFA Liljegren gets a lower cap hit than $2.6m, then DET are saving cap space.


DET opens up a spot at LD for Edvinsson, and gets a younger (and arguably better?) RD than Holl while not adding any cap. Perhaps Liljegren can figure things out in Detroit. He still possibly has top 4 potential with a new coach and in a new system. DET has multiple forwards leaving as UFAs, and they replace one of them with Järnkrok, a veteran swiss army knife for the bottom 6 for 2 seasons at a reasonable cap hit. They're eating $1.7m for 2 years, which isn't ideal, but Holl is overpaid and would have otherwise cost assets to move. The RHD needed to be improved and Sandin-Pellikka isn't ready.

TOR tries Holl again with new coach and a new system. Toronto would prefer Holl is only a 1 year contract and not 2, but the same thing could be said for Järnkrok before the trade. If Holl doesn't work out under Berube, his new $1.7m cap hit that expires in 2026 is tradeable. Worse case scenario, Leafs could retain another 50% and dump Holl at $0.85m cap hit to some team for future considerations.

Part of this trade is the Leafs moving on from Liljegren and looking at the UFA market for D help going forward. Määttä comes in for one year to anchor the 3rd pair, and then expires next summer at the same time as Tavares and McCabe. There will be lots of money to look at further improving the D core then. Leafs probably add a $5m-ish free agent RHD this summer, and can use the Määttä money, the McCabe money and some of the Tavares money to add an additional two top 4 D next summer. From playoffs 2024 to next summer, the top 4 D are Rielly and 3 new guys. Totally changed D core within 14/15 months.

2024 / 2025
Rielly - ( UFA RHD )
McCabe - Benoit
Määttä - Holl
Timmins
( could have a Marner trade bring a D, pushes Timmins to #8 / waivers )

2025 / 2026
Rielly - ( UFA RHD from 2024 )
( UFA LHD ) - ( UFA RHD )
Benoit - Niemela
Holl
( one of the 2025 UFAs is not be needed if a Marner trade brought a D in )

2024 / 2025
Edvinsson - Seider
Walman - Liljegren
Johansson - Petry
Chiarot

2025 / 2026
Edvinsson - Seider
kid (Wallinder / Buium) - Walman
Johansson - Liljegren
Chiarot

Click to read more...

 

[Dog]

I think leafs don't want to bring back Holl and Maatta costs to much. Liljegren has more value than that.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

Holl is the worst defenceman ever. Hard pass

 

[iago]

I don't think Detroit does this trade. They do need a #2 RD, but I don't think Liljegren is the type they are looking for, preferring a bigger more physical RD than Liljegren is.

 

[Hobnobs]

Both teams rejects this proposal

 

[MisterT]

God awful proposal from every possible perspective.

You should feel shame.

 

[Visnovsky]

I'll take Holl back if you guys give us Seider too.

 

[Go Wings]

Detroit will just buy out Holl and trade Maatta. No need to take on further Leafs garbage to do so.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Seems pretty brutally lopsided in Detroit's favor. Toronto's trading the 2 most valuable pieces just to get a 3rd

 

[iago]

Seems pretty brutally lopsided in Detroit's favor. Toronto's trading the 2 most valuable pieces just to get a 3rd

I doubt Detroit has any interest at all in Liljegren, and certainly don't need another bottom 6 forward like Jarnkrok - so no thank you.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You should ashamed of this disgrace of a proposal

 

[Apex Predator]

Both teams rejects this proposal

Does that mean then it’s a fair proposal?

 

[norrisnick]

Does that mean then it’s a fair proposal?

It doesn't do anything for either team. It's not necessarily lopsided, just pointless.

 

[Petes2424]

Detroit is gonna dump Maatta for a decent pick, and will also part ways with Holl… and probably Walman too. If they eat a little bit of Holl’s deal, they should still be able to move him. Likely won’t get anything in return, but they won’t care. As for Walman, good bet he’s involved in a trade as well this summer.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

If they eat a little bit of Holl’s deal, they should still be able to move him. Likely won’t get anything in return, but they won’t care.

This is why I don't understand people saying "Detroit are going to buy Holl out". Why not just max retain on him and trade him for future considerations, or Holl + 5th for future considerations if you have to? Or in a hockey deal where the other team makes you take a cheap-ish 2 year contract back. 2 years of cap eaten up to solve the Holl mistake instead of 4.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

As for Walman, good bet he’s involved in a trade as well this summer.

Trading out both Maatta + Walman (and Holl) means that Albertsson, Chiarot and Petry are all playing in the top 6 D with Seider and Edvinsson every night. If DET are planning to make the playoffs this year, I would assume they want at least of one those guys in the press box every night when fully healthy.

I can see Walman being traded next summer or possibly just riding out his contract for the next two seasons. I think Wallinder and Buium should spend a little bit longer in the AHL, except for injury call-up situations. Just my take, whatever it's worth.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

It doesn't do anything for either team. It's not necessarily lopsided, just pointless.

DETROIT
It changes Holl into a different younger player that might be a better fit and potentially perform better as well. DET needs to add (or re-sign) a few bottom 6 forwards this summer, and this brings one in while moving Maatta out (which is needed to make room for Edvinsson).

TORONTO
Since Jarnkrok's offense has fallen off a cliff, it swaps him for a $0.4m cheaper right handed depth defenseman. It brings in a veteran #4/5 D which was probably going to be brought in anyways plus a pick, to replace Liljegren who it's time to move on from.

I wouldn't say it's pointless. It attempts to address what teams are potentially looking to do with their rosters (move on from guy it's time to move on from, move guy for a slightly cheaper guy at a different position, move out a LD to bring in a bottom 6 forward as per positional needs and making room for a kid).

 

[Mrfenn92]

Detroit is gonna dump Maatta for a decent pick, and will also part ways with Holl… and probably Walman too. If they eat a little bit of Holl’s deal, they should still be able to move him. Likely won’t get anything in return, but they won’t care. As for Walman, good bet he’s involved in a trade as well this summer.

Really can’t see Detroit moving walman

 

[TS Quint]

Are we still pretending Liljegren has potential left? Hes 25, he is now what he is. The guy stinks.

Worst shot share on the Leafs. Playoff scratch. Can't play a lick of defense and weak as a kitten. This guy make Holl look like an all star.

 

[norrisnick]

DETROIT
It changes Holl into a different younger player that might be a better fit and potentially perform better as well. DET needs to add (or re-sign) a few bottom 6 forwards this summer, and this brings one in while moving Maatta out (which is needed to make room for Edvinsson).

TORONTO
Since Jarnkrok's offense has fallen off a cliff, it swaps him for a $0.4m cheaper right handed depth defenseman. It brings in a veteran #4/5 D which was probably going to be brought in anyways plus a pick, to replace Liljegren who it's time to move on from.

I wouldn't say it's pointless. It attempts to address what teams are potentially looking to do with their rosters (move on from guy it's time to move on from, move guy for a slightly cheaper guy at a different position, move out a LD to bring in a bottom 6 forward as per positional needs and making room for a kid).

There are half a dozen players in the AHL that need to be filtered through the Wings' lineup. Moving out two bodies and bringing in two bodies is rearranging deck chairs. It doesn't materially matter because the deck chairs moving out and the chairs moving in are irrelevant pieces. No needle is moved.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Leaf fans tried to warn people. Holl is all your Wings fans

 

[iago]

Really can’t see Detroit moving walman

I can. Walman has every physical ability you could as for, but isn't physical, and makes some goofy decisions with the puck that are as bad as any in the entire NHL. His startling giveaways usually present the opposition with a goal, or a golden s bring chance. I don't view him as a top 4 D' man. ,

 

[Mrfenn92]

I can. Walman has every physical ability you could as for, but isn't physical, and makes some goofy decisions with the puck that are as bad as any in the entire NHL. His startling giveaways usually present the opposition with a goal, or a golden s bring chance. I don't view him as a top 4 D' man. ,

Ok but who are you replacing him with?
Edvisson graduates obviously but then you roll with Chiarot and Matta?

 

[Petes2424]

This is why I don't understand people saying "Detroit are going to buy Holl out". Why not just max retain on him and trade him for future considerations, or Holl + 5th for future considerations if you have to? Or in a hockey deal where the other team makes you take a cheap-ish 2 year contract back. 2 years of cap eaten up to solve the Holl mistake instead of 4.

He’s still a serviceable RHD. He didn’t play bad when he played for Detroit last year. He was just the 7th and 8th guy depending on the time frame, because they desperately needed the puck moved. It’s not like he’s on a crazy deal either.

This is just one of those Toronto reputation with fans thing. They should have no issue trading him at $2.5 for two years. Sure, they won’t get anything because people know they’re dumping his salary but they’ll be able to move him. If they can’t, then a buyout doesn’t cost them much either. They need to clear some money to be able to do some things and they’re not gonna let Justin Holl’s deal stop them from doing it.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Leafs the last team that you can sucker into bringing Holl in lol