Confirmed Signing with Link: [DET] F Vladimir Tarasenko signs with the Red Wings (2 years, $4.75M AAV)

[dgibb10]

Again, Simon Edvinsson took his spot in the lineup at the end of the season when the Red Wings were fighting for a playoff spot. Walman finished the season sitting in the press box and then Detroit needed to offer up a 2nd to move a guy on short term contract at a very reasonable cap hit.

Yes, Walman got hurt, and was not able to get back to himself at the end of the season recovering from an injury, and Detroit did not have the breathing room to play an injured player.

And again, as evidenced by the quality of competition. Edvinsson did not step into walmans spot. He stepped into a much easier role, and the tougher minutes were distributed to other players, making each of their lives harder. Also evidenced by the fact that Seider-Edvinsson played 12 minutes together.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Detroit fans seem very confident that they've improved the roster.

I'm not so sure.

I think the defense got worse (especially as Holl, Petry, and Chiarot continue to age)
Not sure they'll get better results in goaltending this year with a 37 year old.
And there is very possibly some shooting regression coming (shot 23 goals above expectation last year)

Overall detroit ranked 27th in xGoals share last year.

We'll see if they can beat out NYI, Washington, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Philly and Ottawa for the 8th seed

A few comments:

• Simon Edvinsson and Albert Johansson will likely both be in the top 6 on defense. The prospects are starting to work their way into the lineup in Detroit. Edvinsson leads what many consider the best prospect pool in the entire NHL.
• Detroit's goaltending was horrific last season. Yzerman has attempted to address that shortcoming through numbers. I am still concerned about goaltending, but between Ville Husso, Cam Talbot, Alex Lyon and Jack Campbell they will hopefully get replacement level goaltending, not rock bottom.
• Detroit plays in one of the toughest divisions in all of hockey. Florida has appeared in two Finals and won a Cup, Tampa won two Cups and appeared in 4 Finals, Boston, Florida and Tampa have won recent Presidents trophies. Toronto is loaded with talent at forward and Buffalo drafted 9 top 10 picks over the past 10 years. Despite all this, Detroit has improved it's win total and points every single season.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Yes, Walman got hurt, and was not able to get back to himself at the end of the season recovering from an injury, and Detroit did not have the breathing room to play an injured player.

You are not acknowledging he was sitting in the press box at the end of the season despite being able to play when the team was fighting for a playoff spot. Just yesterday when asked about Walman, Steve Yzerman said they couldn't afford to have two defensemen sitting in the stands. So he's acknowledging that they chose to sit Walman and they didn't see a role for him going forward.

Also, if Walman is so great, why did it require a 2nd rounder to move a short term contract at a moderate dollar amount?

So yes, he was injured during the season. You cannot explain everything since then, you are basically covering your ears and eyes pretending it didn't take place. I'm done with this conversation, this is a waste of time.

 

[dgibb10]

You are not acknowledging he was sitting in the press box at the end of the season despite being able to play when the team was fighting for a playoff spot. Just yesterday when asked about Walman, Steve Yzerman said they couldn't afford to have two defensemen sitting in the stands. So he's acknowledging that they chose to sit Walman and they didn't see a role for him going forward.

Also, if Walman is so great, why did it require a 2nd rounder to move a short term contract at a moderate dollar amount?

So yes, he was injured during the season. You cannot explain everything since then, you are basically covering your ears and eyes pretending it didn't take place. I'm done with this conversation, this is a waste of time.

A) he had just returned from injury. Assuming that "cleared to play" =100% healthy is delusion.

Series of events: Walman playing 20+ minutes a night--> Walman gets injured-->Walman does not come back into the lineup full time.

You are trying to play Walman getting injured as him losing his spot to poor play.

If walman came back, got up to a full workload, and then was benched later on for poor play, you'd have an argument. But that's not what happened.

B) Because your GM didn't reach out to any team other than SJS. "Well if my GM made this bad decision, clearly that means it was the right decision".

 

[nbwingsfan]

Except we're not talking about 20 year old Walman vs 20 year old edvinsson.

You are suggesting 20 year old Edvinsson is an upgrade over 28 year old Walman

We watched the games, and Edvisson was a much better player when he played at the end of the year.

Walman was literally benched for Edvisson last season as well

Add another year and they won’t be close

 

[dgibb10]

We watched the games, and Edvisson was a much better player when he played at the end of the year.

Walman was literally benched for Edvisson last season as well

Add another year and they won’t be close

Yes, you watched the games.

The eye test can be very deceiving when one guy is playing against the hardest competition in the league (and is injured) and the other guy is not.

In 22-23 walman played in every game that Edvinsson did. In the stretch edvinsson was in the NHL, Walman played 21 minutes a night, Edvinsson played 17.

Are you referring to walman getting injured in 23-24 as being benched. Certainly interesting way to describe it

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yes, you watched the games.

The eye test can be very deceiving when one guy is playing against the hardest competition in the league (and is injured) and the other guy is not.

In 22-23 walman played in every game that Edvinsson did. In the stretch edvinsson was in the NHL, Walman played 21 minutes a night.

Walman played against the top competition and then absolutely sucked at doing that, so was replaced by Ben Chiarot.

He then played easier minutes and continued to be not very good there as well. Got hurt, and then never returned back to the lineup even when cleared to play. If he was a much better player than Edvisson like you’re stating then he would have been put back in the lineup even if still nagging, like we see all the time with good D. We then literally had to pay to get rid of him

He’s a bottom pairing D by like all metrics. Wings fans watched the games, and Edvisson will be a much better player starting game 1 of next season.

 

[dgibb10]

Walman played against the top competition and then absolutely sucked at doing that, so was replaced by Ben Chiarot.

He then played easier minutes and continued to be not very good there as well. Got hurt, and then never returned back to the lineup even when cleared to play. If he was a much better player than Edvisson like you’re stating then he would have been put back in the lineup even if still nagging, like we see all the time with good D. We then literally had to pay to get rid of him

He’s a bottom pairing D by like all metrics. Wings fans watched the games, and Edvisson will be a much better player starting game 1 of next season.

Weird, because in the 17 games before Walman got injured on march 17th, Walman and Seider played 226 minutes together. Seider and Chiarot played 25 minutes together. So when exactly did he get replaced on the pairing?

And all together on the season before walman got hurt, Seider played 1 minute a night with chiarot, and about 13 minutes a night with Walman.

Seider played with Chiarot on 1 night, march 9th for 16 minutes (they gave up 3 goals in these 16 minutes, got outshot, outchanced, and outplayed significantly), with Walman getting the rest day on the second night of a back to back. Is that what you're referring to?

 

[dgibb10]

Walman played against the top competition and then absolutely sucked at doing that, so was replaced by Ben Chiarot.

He then played easier minutes and continued to be not very good there as well. Got hurt, and then never returned back to the lineup even when cleared to play. If he was a much better player than Edvisson like you’re stating then he would have been put back in the lineup even if still nagging, like we see all the time with good D. We then literally had to pay to get rid of him

He’s a bottom pairing D by like all metrics. Wings fans watched the games, and Edvisson will be a much better player starting game 1 of next season.

I'm sure you'll be convinced of that when Chiarot eats (and gets absolutely cooked) in the hard minutes with Seider.

And Edvinsson plays more of the easier minutes left behind by Ghost (who took the easiest matchups by far) and Chiarot

 

[nbwingsfan]

Weird, because in the 17 games before Walman got injured on march 17th, Walman and Seider played 226 minutes together. Seider and Chiarot played 25 minutes together. So when exactly did he get replaced on the pairing?View attachment 892604
View attachment 892602
And all together on the season before walman got hurt, Seider played 1 minute a night with chiarot, and about 13 minutes a night with Walman.

Seider played with Chiarot on 1 night, march 9th for 16 minutes (they gave up 3 goals in these 16 minutes, got outshot, outchanced, and outplayed significantly), with Walman getting the rest day on the second night of a back to back. Is that what you're referring to?

I’ll ask again.

If Walman was so valuable to the Wings, then why wasn’t he played down the stretch when cleared to play?

Or better yet, why was he shipped away and paid to leave to the team?

 

[dgibb10]

I’ll ask again.

If Walman was so valuable to the Wings, then why wasn’t he played down the stretch when cleared to play?

Or better yet, why was he shipped away and paid to leave to the team?

A) Not fully healthy.

B) because Steve Yzerman has done a terrible job managing the Red wings defense core. Why did he pay Ben Chiarot 5 mill a year and Justin Holl 3.4 mill a year?

 

[nbwingsfan]

A) Not fully healthy.

B) because Steve Yzerman has done a terrible job managing the Red wings defense core. Why did he pay Ben Chiarot 5 mill a year and Justin Holl 3.4 mill a year?

Ben Chiarot has been fine.

And if Walkman was as good as you think he was, he would be playing over Petry and Edvisson and Mattaa even if not “fully healthy” which you have absolutely no proof of him not being.


Players play injured all the time, especially when battling for a playoff spot

 

[dgibb10]

Ben Chiarot has been fine.

And if Walkman was as good as you think he was, he would be playing over Petry and Edvisson and Mattaa even if not “fully healthy” which you have absolutely no proof of him not being.


Players play injured all the time, especially when battling for a playoff spot

I have proof of him getting injured, and then trying to come back in a limited minute role for 2 games before being shutdown again. yes, players try and rush back when battling for a playoff spot, which is likely what happened with Walman.

A player who is not fully healthy can be more of a detriment than a benefit depending on the injury. A players ability to play through any given injury has little bearing on how good he was/is when healthy.

For example, Timo Meier. He got hurt, came back, but was not still not fully healthy with 2 MCL injuries. When he was trying to play through it, it was utterly atrocious, and he was incredibly limited. I would have much rather played another, healthy player, than a hobbled meier in that stretch.

Then, he went back off to get fully healthy. And shockingly, when he was able to actually recover his knees, he was right back to a 38 goal, 74 point pace again.

If I'm in a playoff race, yeah I probably don't have the leeway or time to let an injured player shake the rust off and work himself back up.

Anyway, you have shown to be a complete liar by stating he lost his job BEFORE he got hurt. Blatantly untrue, considering he was playing the same ice time, against the same competition, with the same partner RIGHT up until he got hurt

 

[Puck Tiss]

This is a Tarasenko thread. How did it devolve into a Red Wings defense pissing contest? Anyway, Tarasenko is a low risk high reword signing. Cant really complain.

 

[bossram]

Or, the poster could like the current odds more than the former odds, whatever those are perceived to be. If you are actually rooting for a team, would you not like say 33% odds a whole lot better than say 12.5%?
(Suggested percentages for illustrative purposes, before we bother going down that rabbit hole)

Sure. But the poster never mentioned any odds. Just that he liked them.

 

[bossram]

2019-2020 season Record: 17-49-5 (39 points),
2020-2021 season Record: 19-27-10 (48 points)
2021-2022 season Record: 32-40-10 (74 points),
2022-2023 season Record: 35-37-10 (80 points)
2023-2024 season Record: 41-32-9 (91 points)

List of our top prospects still developing,
1. C Nate Danielson - (1st round, 9th overall, 2023)
2. RD Axel Sandin-Pellikka - (1st round, 17th overall, 2023)
3. G Sebastian Cossa - (15th overall, 1st round 2021 draft)
4. C Marco Kasper - (8th overall, 1st round 2022 draft)
5. RW Carter Mazur - (70th overall, 3rd round 2021 draft)
6. G Trey Augustine - (41st overall, 2nd round 2023 draft)
7. D Albert Johansson - (2nd round, 60th overall, 2019)
8. D William Wallinder - (2nd round, 32nd overall, 2020)
9. RW Dmitri Buchelnikov - (70th overall, 3rd round 2021 draft)
10. LW Elmer Söderblom - (159th overall, 6th round 2019 draft)

We don't have "different young players compared to 21-22" because prospects take time to develop.

Here's a list of the Top Prospects Yzerman had when he took over in 2019

Joe Veleno
Filip Zadina
Jared McIsaac
Dennis Cholowski
Filip Larsson
Jonatan Berggren
Taro Hirose
Yevgeni Svechnikov
Axel Holmström
Michael Rasmussen

So please, tell me more about your opinion and how you'd do things so much better.

I've made many posts on that. Wings fans just get mad, despite every other fanbase making the same (correct) evaluation of their management.

 

[bossram]

Right. There won't be 20 million in cap space. They'll be like 4m and the two high priced RFAs locked up for 8 years... and then when next FA period comes around, there will be around 20M again, but no Seider or Raymond to extend.

The Wings salary commitments as we sit today in 26-27 (literally two years from now are)

Larkin 5 yr, 8.7m
Compher 2 yr, 5.1m
Copp 1 yr, 5.625m
Debrincat 1yr,7.85m
Rasmussen 2yr, 3.2m

That's it.

In 25-26, add

Tarasenko 1yr, 4.75m
Chiarot 1 yr, 4.75m
Holl 1 yr, 3.4m
Gustafsson 1 yr, 2m.
Talbot 1 yr, 2.5m

How exactly is the roster clogged? The Red Wings have 10 guys signed for next year which is whittled to 5 the next year. Add in Seider and Raymond long term deals and those numbers are 12 and 7.

Plus... Raymond was drafted in 2020. "There aren't many different young players since 21-22".... because most of the young players were drafted from 6OA on back in 2021, 2022, and 2023. I.E. the types of players that will take a couple years to make it.

And shit, in 24-25, the Red Wings are pretty certain to devote significant ice time to Simon Edvinsson, Marco Kasper, and Albert Johansson. The young players that the HFBoards hivemind is so apoplectic that we're not playing are getting time this year.

Lmao, I don't even see Wings fans projecting Kasper or Johansson in their lineups.

And like wow, if you fast foward to the expiry of the weird Copp/Compher/Chiarot signings, you see they expire. Fascinating point.

 

[Sergei DRW]

They missed the playoffs by a tie breaker and people try to act like they are wallowing in the basement. God forbid they let their picks develop. Kane went almost a ppg after coming back from a surgery that everyone thought would end his career, Larkin is a 30 goal, ppg player, Cat is essentially a 30 goal guy and Raymond just scored 30 and took a giant leap forward at 22 years old. Yeah, the future sure is bleak and the wings will be a lotto team again this year, even though they werent last year. Time to blow it all up.

They would sure made things a lot more challenging for the Rangers than Washington, which shouldn't have been in the playoffs with -82 goals ratio. But there is some "dead weight" like Copp that the Wings should get rid of, and greatly improve the defense, because those "blowouts" or long stretches of losing games don't look good for a team that truly wishes to compete in the playoffs.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Lmao, I don't even see Wings fans projecting Kasper or Johansson in their lineups.

And like wow, if you fast foward to the expiry of the weird Copp/Compher/Chiarot signings, you see they expire. Fascinating point.

Many think one of Kasper/Danielson/Mazur could make it out of camp.
Johansson could be odd man out if everyone’s healthy and the team is performing well, but will certainly get opportunities.

Personally I think people like you would just move goalposts if they were bringing in a lot of prospects, because it could lead to regression. As the Devils/Sabres/Sens/etc. have seen it’s not easy to compete if your plan is to play a bunch of rookies.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Lmao, I don't even see Wings fans projecting Kasper or Johansson in their lineups.

And like wow, if you fast foward to the expiry of the weird Copp/Compher/Chiarot signings, you see they expire. Fascinating point.

The point was that these things that you are so adamant are "blocking and are terrible" are literal one and two year deals that can be moved or buried without much stressing. It's not 2017 where we have Nielsen for 5 more years, Abdelkader for 5 more years, Helm for 4 more years. Guys with one or two years left on their deals are infinitely easier to buyout, trade, or bury if they're outplayed or space is needed.

And Wings fans aren't projecting those guys in their lineups because we have over a decade of history that our exec team doesn't like to rush players... not that we're somehow really low on those guys. Many of the fans here have taken a "prove it" mindset when it comes to the roster. But they've always been clear that a Johansson without waiver eligibility is staying up. Edvinsson played 21 games last year, meaning his cups of coffee are done and he's a big part.

Lastly, I didn't say fast forward to the end of the Copp and Compher deals. I was saying that two years from now, the only players they currently have locked up contractually at all are Copp, Compher, Larkin, Rasmussen, and Debrincat and they're down to 10 players under contract as soon as next year. How exactly is that a clogged roster? Without making any moves, they'll have 50% of their spots open if they chose to.

 

[sepster]

I have proof of him getting injured, and then trying to come back in a limited minute role for 2 games before being shutdown again. yes, players try and rush back when battling for a playoff spot, which is likely what happened with Walman.

A player who is not fully healthy can be more of a detriment than a benefit depending on the injury. A players ability to play through any given injury has little bearing on how good he was/is when healthy.

For example, Timo Meier. He got hurt, came back, but was not still not fully healthy with 2 MCL injuries. When he was trying to play through it, it was utterly atrocious, and he was incredibly limited. I would have much rather played another, healthy player, than a hobbled meier in that stretch.

Then, he went back off to get fully healthy. And shockingly, when he was able to actually recover his knees, he was right back to a 38 goal, 74 point pace again.

If I'm in a playoff race, yeah I probably don't have the leeway or time to let an injured player shake the rust off and work himself back up.

Anyway, you have shown to be a complete liar by stating he lost his job BEFORE he got hurt. Blatantly untrue, considering he was playing the same ice time, against the same competition, with the same partner RIGHT up until he got hurt

Before you fill up another two pages clinging to your theory that Walman tried to come back early from an injury, wasn't ready, and that is why he was sat to end the season. In fact, he was cleared to play early and held himself out of the lineup. That is why he ended up in the doghouse and stapled to the bench, his reputation shot, and was given away.

Your theory, in a vacuum, sounds reasonable, but in reality, is 100% wrong.

 

[dgibb10]

Before you fill up another two pages clinging to your theory that Walman tried to come back early from an injury, wasn't ready, and that is why he was sat to end the season. In fact, he was cleared to play early and held himself out of the lineup. That is why he ended up in the doghouse and stapled to the bench, his reputation shot, and was given away.

Your theory, in a vacuum, sounds reasonable, but in reality, is 100% wrong.

So he held himself out? So not benched? Perfect, back to my main point. FIlling the toughest minutes in hockey with Ben Chiarot and a 20 year old will be a downgrade

 

[nbwingsfan]

So he held himself out? So not benched? Perfect, back to my main point. FIlling the toughest minutes in hockey with Ben Chiarot and a 20 year old will be a downgrade

Once again thinking that one of the top D prospects in the world can’t replicate the play of a bottom pair D whist because he played a lot of hard minutes (terribly) is hilarious.

 

[dgibb10]

Once again thinking that one of the top D prospects in the world can’t replicate the play of a bottom pair D whist because he played a lot of hard minutes (terribly) is hilarious.

Your coach must be a real moron if he played a bottom pairing dman on the top pair for 2 years.

Either that or Chiarot, Maataa, etc are even WORSE than a bottom pairing dman. Which makes your GM a moron for signing them at 8 mill combined

 

[Ezekial]

Your coach must be a real moron if he played a bottom pairing dman on the top pair for 2 years.

Either that or Chiarot, Maataa, etc are even WORSE than a bottom pairing dman. Which makes your GM a moron for signing them at 8 mill combined

Man who doesn't watch a player tells people who watched him every night how good he his.