Confirmed Signing with Link: [DET] F Vladimir Tarasenko signs with the Red Wings (2 years, $4.75M AAV)

[ZDH]

The Avs made it work when it happened to them.

The Avs made it work bc they got this years Hart trophy winner 1st overall.

They did draft well no doubt, but so has Detroit. The problem is we haven't gotten the draft luck to have a 1OA to build around.

 

[bossram]

Which one of those contracts is handcuffing them right now with over 20 million in cap space and 2 RFAs to sign?

What he's doing is improving the team with short term veteran deals on guys who can contribute while the prospects develop. Despite how many times this has been explained it's crazy how hard it is for folks to understand.

I wouldn't consider Copp, Compher, or Chiarot as "short-term" deals.

They have to re-sign Seider and Raymond. After that, there won't be $20M in cap space my guy.

IMO the bigger issue with the all the mid UFAs is that they're just not that good and clog up the roster. I've been hearing from Wings fans for years that these deals are to "help the team improve while prospects develop". They've improved marginally, but still missed the playoffs, and they don't really have any different young players on the roster compared to 21-22

 

[saska sault]

The Avs made it work when it happened to them.

Nice way to avoid answering the question that was asked. What players should he have selected over Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson? The most recent picks haven't made the league yet so those can be debated later.


Also how long after Colorado made their selections did they win? 2 or 3 years later?
How many years before Edmonton made a finals appearance.

People like to think a true foundation replacing rebuild is 3 to 5 years max, but there isn't any examples of that recently that people can actually point to as a blue print.

I wouldn't consider Copp, Compher, or Chiarot as "short-term" deals.

They have to re-sign Seider and Raymond. After that, there won't be $20M in cap space my guy.

IMO the bigger issue with the all the mid UFAs is that they're just not that good and clog up the roster. I've been hearing from Wings fans for years that these deals are to "help the team improve while prospects develop". They've improved marginally, but still missed the playoffs, and they don't really have any different young players on the roster compared to 21-22

They are clogging up and stopping who? 19 and 20 year old centers? Give those guys a chance to play the pro game. Guys making the league at 21 instead of 18 is pretty normal, unless you have a greatly constructed team and can properly insulate these guys.

Larkin, Compher and Ramussen are the only Red Wings with more than 3 years of term. There will be lots of opportunities.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Nice way to avoid answering the question that was asked. What players should he have selected over Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson? The most recent picks haven't made the league yet so those can be debated later.

The question is pointless.

My point was and remains that Detroit fans pumped up Yzerman as an otherworldly GM when it came to drafting and Detroit would be on the road to success in no time with incredible prospects dominating the farm system.

But now that hasn't happened you all make excuses blaming the league and the lack of talent, which I find hysterical.

Drafting is as much luck as it is skill, which I guess Red Wings fans are finally realizing slowly.

Also how long after Colorado made their selections did they win? 2 or 3 years later?
How many years before Edmonton made a finals appearance.

In 16/17 the Avs finished dead last in the league and were Cup champs five years later. And that's despite having the best odds to pick first overall in two of those drafts where they ultimately fell to fourth ('17 and '19). They still managed to be successful and regularly make the playoffs.

Five years into Yzerman's career with Detroit they haven't made the playoffs even once.

Yzerplan

 

[Ezekial]

A) The question is pointless.


B) In 16/17 the Avs finished dead last in the league and were Cup champs five years later.

A) Your example is pointless


B) They also finished 2nd worst in the league and won the lottery in 2012-13. Drafted 3rd overall in 2009 and used that pick for assets later.

 

[saska sault]

The question is pointless.

My point was and remains that Detroit fans pumped up Yzerman as an otherworldly GM when it came to drafting and Detroit would be on the road to success in no time with incredible prospects dominating the farm system.

But now that hasn't happened you all make excuses blaming the league and the lack of talent, which I find hysterical.

Drafting is as much luck as it is skill, which I guess Red Wings fans are finally realizing slowly.


In 16/17 the Avs finished dead last in the league and were Cup champs five years later. And that's despite having the best odds to pick first overall in two of those drafts where they ultimately fell to fourth ('17 and '19). They still managed to be successful and regularly make the playoffs.

Five years into Yzerman's career with Detroit they haven't made the playoffs even once.

Yzerplan

When were Mackinnon, Landeskog and Rantanen drafted? Colorado had 2 x 100 point players and a captain to start with. Colorado is comparable to Yzermans time in Tampa when he already had Stamkos and Hedman. We had Larkin, Mantha and Bertuzzi but you can continue to think those timelines should be similar.

Do I wish the Wings were Cup contenders now? What fan doesn't. He's drafted well and been patient and hasn't handicapped the salary cap for the future. Can't ask for much more besides luck or a random superstar demanding to play in Detroit. The strange thing is it's mostly other teams fans who care about the time line, more than the actual fan base who watches the games and pays attention to the details.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Wait, what? I thought his drafting in Tampa proved he was a genius and could pull talent from anywhere.

Now in Deteoit it's not his fault, it's all bad luck due to the lottery and lack of talent in the respective draft years?

Maybe they are future great players. We have no idea where the 2021-2024 picks end up on the spectrum at this point

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Tarasenko was a the new late-career Vanek

 

[Icelevel]

A Tarasenko Perron swap. How uncreative.

 

[Austrianwing]

No, but if someone says, "I like their odds", they must have some mental estimate of what their chances are, and they seem favourable.

The poster could not articulate this was.

Or, the poster could like the current odds more than the former odds, whatever those are perceived to be. If you are actually rooting for a team, would you not like say 33% odds a whole lot better than say 12.5%?
(Suggested percentages for illustrative purposes, before we bother going down that rabbit hole)

 

[BelovedIsles]

Bit of an overpayment. Still think he’s good for 20 goals; a shell of himself.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

A pretty solid top 6.

 

[norrisnick]

Raymond, Kane, Tarasenko will be the RWs on lines 1, 2, and 3. Lalonde might be stubborn and try Tank at LW, but it's not going to work and it'll get rectified by... the holidays... maybe.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Raymond, Kane, Tarasenko will be the RWs on lines 1, 2, and 3. Lalonde might be stubborn and try Tank at LW, but it's not going to work and it'll get rectified by... the holidays... maybe.

Yeah, he seemed better at RW in Florida.

Bit of an overpayment. Still think he’s good for 20 goals; a shell of himself.

Yeah, he's still good in the playoffs though. Heavy player, forechecks well, good defensively, will take hits to make plays. The Wings have to get there though.

 

[rubenflamshep]

Bit of an overpayment. Still think he’s good for 20 goals; a shell of himself.

Potentially. His production has fallen off quite a bit in his last season, from an 80th percentile clip for his age to ~50th. Though a lot of that was this recent playoffs

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Yeah, he seemed better at RW in Florida.

Can’t remember off the top of my head if the Blues tried him at LW at all, but if they did it didn’t last long. He’s been a RW pretty much his whole career

 

[KJoe88]

Would be hilarious if he popped off in Detroit.

*fingers crossed*

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I wouldn't consider Copp, Compher, or Chiarot as "short-term" deals.

They have to re-sign Seider and Raymond. After that, there won't be $20M in cap space my guy.

IMO the bigger issue with the all the mid UFAs is that they're just not that good and clog up the roster. I've been hearing from Wings fans for years that these deals are to "help the team improve while prospects develop". They've improved marginally, but still missed the playoffs, and they don't really have any different young players on the roster compared to 21-22

2019-2020 season Record: 17-49-5 (39 points),
2020-2021 season Record: 19-27-10 (48 points)
2021-2022 season Record: 32-40-10 (74 points),
2022-2023 season Record: 35-37-10 (80 points)
2023-2024 season Record: 41-32-9 (91 points)

List of our top prospects still developing,
1. C Nate Danielson - (1st round, 9th overall, 2023)
2. RD Axel Sandin-Pellikka - (1st round, 17th overall, 2023)
3. G Sebastian Cossa - (15th overall, 1st round 2021 draft)
4. C Marco Kasper - (8th overall, 1st round 2022 draft)
5. RW Carter Mazur - (70th overall, 3rd round 2021 draft)
6. G Trey Augustine - (41st overall, 2nd round 2023 draft)
7. D Albert Johansson - (2nd round, 60th overall, 2019)
8. D William Wallinder - (2nd round, 32nd overall, 2020)
9. RW Dmitri Buchelnikov - (70th overall, 3rd round 2021 draft)
10. LW Elmer Söderblom - (159th overall, 6th round 2019 draft)

We don't have "different young players compared to 21-22" because prospects take time to develop.

Here's a list of the Top Prospects Yzerman had when he took over in 2019

Joe Veleno
Filip Zadina
Jared McIsaac
Dennis Cholowski
Filip Larsson
Jonatan Berggren
Taro Hirose
Yevgeni Svechnikov
Axel Holmström
Michael Rasmussen

So please, tell me more about your opinion and how you'd do things so much better.

 

[jfrank21]

The Avs made it work when it happened to them.

Was that before or after they drafted Duchene #3, Landy #2, and Mack #1...10 years before they won their cup? Stick to porn

 

[jfrank21]

They missed the playoffs by a tie breaker and people try to act like they are wallowing in the basement. God forbid they let their picks develop. Kane went almost a ppg after coming back from a surgery that everyone thought would end his career, Larkin is a 30 goal, ppg player, Cat is essentially a 30 goal guy and Raymond just scored 30 and took a giant leap forward at 22 years old. Yeah, the future sure is bleak and the wings will be a lotto team again this year, even though they werent last year. Time to blow it all up.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

This is such a lazy and dumb comparison.

Canucks were loaded with riches when Benning took over. He either let them all walk or traded them for garbage. He spent to the cap every year trying to win and other than his very first year (where he was very much trying to contend) he never picked twice in the first round. The Canucks never intentionally rebuilt, we got EP and Hughes completely by luck because Benning's best effort at building a contender put us in the top 5 of the draft.

Literally none of that is comparable to Detroit's situation.

The only Benning tier move Yzerman made prior to the Walman dump was ending the tank right before the epic, loaded with elite talent, 2023 draft. He just had to tank one more year and he'd have his elite 1C right now and be in a great position to compete moving forward but he couldn't wait and now they have to find a way to contention with a St. Louis style roster full of good but not great pieces.

You're kidding right? Benning took over with nothing but Kesler to move and he completely handcuffed him.
Everyone else was over 30 with NMC and owner determined to stay relevant.
That's one of the few things I cut him slack for was trying to get younger without significant assets to do so.
Call it lazy all you want but at least educate yourself on the clusterfu* Benning took over.

I compared the two GM's based on the fact that seem to lack a clear plan and often have made moves that don't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Devil made me do it]

What are the Wings trying to accomplish exactly?

Never question the Yzerplan.

 

[5Hollywood5]

YZERPLAN

 

[jfrank21]

Lotta talk coming from fans whose teams will be completely capped out and have missed their window with the best player in the world on their team.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Even Dorion didn't cave to a multi-year on Tarasenko, lmao. What is going on over there?