Desharnais and Briere

[Monctonscout]

No. He would not be a great winger for anyone, because he cannot score goals.

1 year ago on this board I wrote that if DD did not adjust his game and learn to score goals he was toast.

He did not do that, and yet he was re signed for 4 ******* years. It is infuriating. It really is.

DD should not ever have been re signed without showing that he could also be an effective 25 goal winger.

Un ****ing believable. It really makes me nervous about Bergy. I bet there were massive arguments behind closed doors on the re signing.

DD is useless to Habs unless he becomes an effective goal scorer. On PP especially. Habs do not need yet another non scoring center.

It is so ****ing obvious I can't believe I have to say it here.

So who died and made you god?

You're so far out in left field you can't even see home plate.

So because YOU made some ridiculous comment about DD moving to wing and being a 25 goal scorer when it's readily obvious that he's a center and a playmaker.

So then YOU get infuriated because your ridiculous concept, that had no chance from the get go, YOU get infuriated...brilliant!

Since when would DD be useless unless he became a goal scorer? Are playmakers going out of style? Should Pittsburgh have bought out Crosby this summer since almost 9 mil cap hit on a 25-30 goal scorer is asanine. Maybe Getzlaf too...7+ mil for a 15 goal scorer...ouf.

For his production, 3.5 mil cap hit is very low for DD, go look at comparables...guys with similar production rates that were going into UFA years.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Quit the politics. Not welcome here. There is no conspiracy OK? A lot of guys **** on Moen also.

hmmk, where's the Moen hate thread then ? I see two threads specifically *****ing about Brière and thousands of posts *****ing about DD (not even exagerating).

Meanwhile, White is terrible and Moen is missing in action (although he scored with a skate).

I don't want this forums to turn into RDS.CA, I want hockey debates with people that have an objective view on the game, and while I agree that both DD and Brière aren't going to lead us to a Stanley Cup anytime soon, there are more urgent matters like porous bottom pairing defense and PK that needs to be more vehemently critiscized, because the way they're performing is WHAT makes us lose games (and not the DD + Brière duo if properly managed).

Also, how can you critiscize a DD- Brière duo and not mention the Plekanec - Gionta duo that is as soft when it comes to SIZE. Sure, Plek and Gio are more responsible without the puck, but as far as what I'm reading here the height and weight of these players is quite arguably quite similar.

In the end, all of these smurfs are talented players that made the NHL not because of their physical attributes, but because of their determination, hard work, and talent.

Debates around here these days are so damn concentrated on SIZE SIZE SIZE. Hey look, we might have a small team, but SIZE alone don't win you Stanley Cups. And talented players with size aren't growing on trees. The Habs smurfs squad will surprise again this year. And like some other poster said, it makes sense to put DD with Brière on sheltered minutes of offensive duty.

You guys can critiscize anyone when they perform bad but for DD + Brière, the season hasn't started yet and there are THOUSANDS of posts chirping on them, this is just mind boggling. And then we wonder why no local French players want to sign as UFAs in their prime here. IF DD and Brière get 50+ points they don't deserve any critics.

 

[Monctonscout]

The biggest problem with DD is that while giving him the softest minutes and the best wingers can make him produce, it causes our team as a whole to struggle. He should be on the wing for starters. It's simply not worth giving him everything when it stunts the production of at least 4 better players in: Eller, Galchenyuk, Gallagher(now that he's been replaced by Briere), and even Maxpac. Plus I think Max would be better off with another centre. It's simply infuriating.

How have the Habs team as a whole struggled? They finished 4th overall last year and one of the top scoring teams.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

How have the Habs team as a whole struggled? They finished 4th overall last year and one of the top scoring teams.

Wait dude, didn't you get the memo ? You're supposed to find hilarious reasons as to why putting DD on sheltered offensive minutes is detrimental to the team's success, even if evidence proves otherwise (Eller and Plek lines taking on heavier minutes and still putting up points, while insulating DD's line)

If anything, this is the right strategy to adopt.

Also, I'm not saying that signing DD to that term and $$ isn't a mistake, but like I said if he puts up 50+ points I'm alright with this. If anything, we're lucky to have 3 centers that can get 50+ points in the NHL. Why spit on that ? Because you don't like one's size ? Give me a break. Arguably, his salary is lower than standards for players that put 50 + points.

RNH just signed a ridiculous contract, and puts up same #s DD puts up (arguably, DD was better than RNH last season, even if posters around here are trying to convince me that DD is garbage), and is as soft when it comes to physical play and is as bad defensively. You guys need more objectivity. It's obvious a very annoying and vocal part of the fanbase don't like DD, but he is really no that bad. Ask Pacioretty. This situation is almost Briseboisesque (who happened to be the best Habs offensive defenseman in a really dark era of bad Habs teams). Only Habs fans will boo a Brisebois and run him out of town but will say that booing Gomez is classless and shouldn't be accepted (I remember reading all over these boards how booing affects a players morale and how bad it would be if Habs fans started to boo the poor Gomer).

I predict that if DD and Brière start out the season on a cold streak we'll hear BOOS at the Bell center.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Wait dude, didn't you get the memo ? You're supposed to find hilarious reasons as to why putting DD on sheltered offensive minutes is detrimental to the team's success, even if evidence proves otherwise.

Wait dude, didn't you get the memo? The evidence doesn't prove otherwise.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Wait dude, didn't you get the memo? The evidence doesn't prove otherwise.

Being one of the top scoring team in the league sure proves putting DD in sheltered minutes harm the other lines, even if DD had an off year.

 

[MXD]

Wait dude, didn't you get the memo? The evidence doesn't prove otherwise.

Last season didn't happen?
Again, if you're going this road, then Eller has no business being our 2nd center this season.
Even DD stauchiest supporters here don't say that.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Last season didn't happen?

Sure did. Desharnais' responsibilities reduced by 2 mins/night, team goes up in standings. Worked great. Step in the right direction.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Sure did. Desharnais' responsibilities reduced by 2 mins/night, team goes up in standings. Worked great. Step in the right direction.

This I'm alright with ^^

Team is very good offensively with 3 centers putting up 50+ points. I have nothing against the fact that Eller and Plek are much better 2-way and I will admit DD isn't the best in his own zone. That said, why would MB and MT trade DD for another 2-way center when we already have 2 of them and can ice a serviceable 4rth line (Moen and White are bad but this is just preseason right ? They'll hit their stride) ? Having a PP specialist that needs insulation at even strenght is so bad that the team was successful and only fell down due to injuries to critical players in the POs. That said, I think DD needs to improve his PP production, 'cause otherwise the signing looks rather bad.

 

[Et le But]

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Briere
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher
Bourque-Desharnais-Prust(Gionta)

Playing Briere in such difficult minutes is asking for trouble, but Plekanec and Pacioretty might be able to open it up enough and control possesion for Briere to work with.

Briere and Desharnais might be able to work together though, in an extremely sheltered role, but it would be a complete waste to include Pacioretty with them - he'd pad his stats, but the other two lines could use him more, whereas someone like Bourque isn't a particularly good two way player to begin with.

 

[MXD]

Sure did. Desharnais' responsibilities reduced by 2 mins/night, team goes up in standings. Worked great. Step in the right direction.

We agree on that, but probably disagree on the reasons.

 

[MXD]

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Briere
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher
Bourque-Desharnais-Prust(Gionta)

Playing Briere in such difficult minutes is asking for trouble, but Plekanec and Pacioretty might be able to open it up enough and control possesion for Briere to work with.

Briere and Desharnais might be able to work together though, in an extremely sheltered role, but it would be a complete waste to include Pacioretty with them - he'd pad his stats, but the other two lines could use him more, whereas someone like Bourque isn't a particularly good two way player to begin with.

We have a winner here. Not to mention that Prust is a very intelligent player whose skills don't match up with brains... A bit like a 35 years old Briere. DD and DB could work great on the PP though in some schemes.

 

[MXD]

This I'm alright with ^^

Team is very good offensively with 3 centers putting up 50+ points. I have nothing against the fact that Eller and Plek are much better 2-way and I will admit DD isn't the best in his own zone. That said, why would MB and MT trade DD for another 2-way center when we already have 2 of them and can ice a serviceable 4rth line (Moen and White are bad but this is just preseason right ? They'll hit their stride) ? Having a PP specialist that needs insulation at even strenght is so bad that the team was successful and only fell down due to injuries to critical players in the POs. That said, I think DD needs to improve his PP production, 'cause otherwise the signing looks rather bad.

I'd add to that - DD slightly better on the PP that stats indicate, mainly because he can win faceoffs (contrary to popular belief) and goes to the net for screening purposes (something not all our relevant centers are doing).

Those might be, and probably are, the reasons why he kept getting pp time and why he'll continue doing so.

 

[Et le But]

We have a winner here. Not to mention that Prust is a very intelligent player whose skills don't match up with brains... A bit like a 35 years old Briere. DD and DB could work great on the PP though in some schemes.

Prust might not have the hands to be a "real" power forward but he's good at winning back the puck (something a Bourque-Desharnais combo would need) and has a high enough hockey IQ to know to do the dirty work to make that combo work, and would probably be more than capable at crashing the net and screening whenever possible.

Plus his enthusiasm could probably keep Bourque motivated into playing physical, and if so the two of them could probably cause enough chaos to let Desharnais be effective. I wouldn't want that combo playing against the Bergerons of the league, but in offensive zone starts against middling 2nd and 3rd lines it has promise.

 

[Sorinth]

hmmk, where's the Moen hate thread then ? I see two threads specifically *****ing about Brière and thousands of posts *****ing about DD (not even exagerating).

Meanwhile, White is terrible and Moen is missing in action (although he scored with a skate).

Well if Moen was on the second line with lots of PP time I have no doubt you'd see a lot of Moen hate threads and quite a few Therrien ones as well.

We are relying on Desharnais & Briere to win us games, we aren't really relying on Moen or White to win us games.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Well if Moen was on the second line with lots of PP time I have no doubt you'd see a lot of Moen hate threads and quite a few Therrien ones as well.

We are relying on Desharnais & Briere to win us games, we aren't really relying on Moen or White to win us games.

So you think the 2nd PK unit isn't an important part of the puzzle to win more games ?

Okay buddy. If I recall, Moen plays 10-15 mins and White 8-12 mins per game, and are assigned PK and defensive responsibilities. If our PK is bottom of the league we will lose games we should've won, and even playoff games although there are less calls, wich results are often related on performances on the PP or PK. PP specialists vs PK specialists, both groups needs to perform. If Moen / White are considered keepers and PK specialists, their performances needs to be scrutinized as much as DD's on the PP. The same can be said about Subban - Markov' performances on the PP compared to Murray - Bouillon on the PK. Both are as important as the other, well, one can say that you can't win hockey games if you don't score so the PP is relatively more important, but hopefully you got my point. That's why hockey is called a team sport, every player on the roster IS important, except for Parros maybe. Even players who don't play on the PP or PK can make you win or lose a game, well, even Parros can make a difference out there if he can bring courage and confidence in the heart of our smurfs.

Last preseason game vs Boston worried me but I understand this is just preseason. What I don't understand is the uproar about having DD insulated in an offensive-only role, while it's clear it is a recipe to successfully win games, and playing him otherwise isn't. Some fans would rather get rid of him for a sack of potatoe while he racks up 50+ points in the NHL, mind-boggling to say the least. If we could trade DD for Eric Staal, Ohh God I'd be ecstatic, but let's be realistic, DD dosen,t have trade value because of size and contract term, but potentially could be a good asset if he exceeds expectations (50 points is what I expect from him, so if he ends up at 60-70 points we could trade him for a bigger 50 points player). Ideally next year or the other, DD is replaced by Galchenyuk at center, then he's expendable, but we still need him as of right now.

EDIT : I think Prust will be on the PK over White but I don't know how good he is on the face-offs. If White can manage to be good at draws he will certainly play on the 2nd PK unit with either Prust or Moen. Well, ideally our 3rd / 4rth liners are good enough to get PK duty, and if not you have to play 3rd / 4rth line too many even strenght minutes.

 

[Habssince89]

How have the Habs team as a whole struggled? They finished 4th overall last year and one of the top scoring teams.

I expanded on what I meant. Read the thread again

 

[Habssince89]

Oh and as for DD playing on Ellers wing: its not like he would stop being a playmaker. Saying that he would have to score a certain amount of goals is ridiculous. The move to wing would happen to relieve him of defensive responsibilities, while giving Eller the top6 role hes earned, plus giving him a good playmaker. It also allows Galch to develop at C and strengthens our size and defensive ability down the middle.

That being said we obviously are too logjammed to have DD play wing, but I maintain that DD playing on Ellers wing would work fine.

 

[S Bah]

Well the new PP unit seems to be functioning quite efficiently, in fact they were forming some chemistry from what I observed. The Habs are 25-1 longshots to win the Stanley Cup, now I know we all want the Habs to win every year, but with 29 teams vying for that honor maybe patience is in order.
The team made some great strides towards the ultimate goal last season, with the tumultuous changes made in the organization. Rookies came on board and impressed everyone, now with Subban (Norris Trophy), Pacioretty (Star status), Price (Olympic Goalie), Plekanec, Markov, Gorges to lead our team, progress will once again be made. Patience is necessary for the new regime to work it's magic and a plan has to be adhered too, otherwise it will take an eternity before the Habs can reach it's former heights.
Marc Bergevin has the right plan and will follow his instincts and implement that plan to it's eventual goal, nothing short of greatness is expected and perfection takes Time.