Claypool
Registered User
- Jan 12, 2009
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- 4,352
A math nerd? I like the kid.
Will he be better PMD than Chychrun someday?
To really see what a defenseman can do takes several years in the NHL. I'd be shocked if Cholo was regularly in the lineup in the next two years, let alone on track to answer this question within the time frame of four years.We'll find out in the next 4 years, hopefully
And yet one made the WJC team, but the other wasn't even invited to camp. I don't think that was because they forgot about Cholo.He has more points than Fabbro.
Nashville should trade him too.
And yet one made the WJC team, but the other wasn't even invited to camp. I don't think that was because they forgot about Cholo.
Hicketts made two world juniorchampionship teams and Quincey played world juniors. What exactly does it mean, the played over guys that had better hockey careers or will have more than likely.
Nothing I have read or seen in terms of the limited viewings of Cholo should have people unexcited. The kid is a phenomenal skater and passer. He is still growing and looks like the kind of project we should be excited about.
This. The last three years Red Wings management has landed us Anthony Mantha, Dylan Larkin and Evgeni Svechnekov. I trust Detroit's scouting a lot. With everything I heard about Dennis at the time of his draft, the fact that he was on their radar over Jakub was very, very interesting. A great skater. Everything I've heard kind of reminds me of Ryan McDonagh.
I know you've always been down on Joe Hicketts, but watching him this year at 20, I think he's NHL bound.
My impression is that nearly everyone who is down on the pick knows almost nothing about the kid. Now it's certainly possible that he will turn out to be a bad pick, but it seems people are judging too much based on who has more hype as a 17-18 year old. Duncan Keith didn't play in the WJC, what a bust.Nothing I have read or seen in terms of the limited viewings of Cholo should have people unexcited. The kid is a phenomenal skater and passer. He is still growing and looks like the kind of project we should be excited about.
Wings almost never have a complete 'miss' in the first 2 rounds. Worst case they end up with is borderline players like Frk/Ferraro or disappointing NHLers like Sheahan/Smith/Jurco. We have very good scouting. You shouldn't mistake an inability to pick up superstars in the late rounds with bad scouting. Huge amount of luck in having a player come from nowhere and really put it all together. But our scouts know how to identify NHL caliber talent. That will pay off sooner or later. We are just currently paying for our lack of 1st and 2nd round picks in the 00s.You trust it more than I do.
Mantha has a shot to be a 1st line winger, but I don't know that Larkin gets past a 2C, and Svech is a long way off yet.
Good to very good players, but nobody is a lock to be part of the next core (yet), and certainly nothing thus far to speak of on defense. I'd give it, 'Trending Upwards' for the scouting staff, but still very much, 'Wait and See'.
But I'm hoping they can do even greater things with a very high pick.
You trust it more than I do.This. The last three years Red Wings management has landed us Anthony Mantha, Dylan Larkin and Evgeni Svechnekov. I trust Detroit's scouting a lot.
This. The last three years Red Wings management has landed us Anthony Mantha, Dylan Larkin and Evgeni Svechnekov. I trust Detroit's scouting a lot. With everything I heard about Dennis at the time of his draft, the fact that he was on their radar over Jakub was very, very interesting. A great skater. Everything I've heard kind of reminds me of Ryan McDonagh.
I know you've always been down on Joe Hicketts, but watching him this year at 20, I think he's NHL bound.
Yes and no. We're really mostly paying for not having enough 1st and 2nd round picks in the 00s. The actual missed opportunities for us in terms of drafting impact d-men have been very few. I mean you can look at Shea Weber as a late pick.. but back then we were running the most stacked team in the league and made our first draft pick in the 3rd, and we actually hit on an NHL d-man in Quincey. PK Subban was 2nd round 2007, we didn't have a 2nd round pick. Holland would have been fired on the spot if he picked PK in the 1st, and holding onto every pick isn't an option when it's cup-or-bust. Klingberg is one of those one-in-a-million late round guys. A 5th rounder, in a year when we didn't have a 5th and our 4th was Teemu Pulkkinen who still has to be seen as a good draft pick for his position. Maatta was late 1st round in a year when we didn't have a 1st. You can fault Holland, but not the drafting. And so on. Finding those gems requires picks, and it requires a ton of luck. But it also requires good scouting, which we have. Alex Edler was stolen from us basically. Again you can fault Holland for not trading up, but he had no reason to think the guy would be taken only a few picks ahead of them in the 3rd round, and we used that pick on Franzen instead which was hugely impactful in our 08 cup, so again our scouts made it work. If we weren't going for the cup, we likely would have had a 1st and 2nd and picked Edler before Vanouver. Cost of competing.You should trust our judgement in drafting forwards. It's been proven many times. And you should be skeptical of our judgement in drafting defenseman until one materializes in the NHL in a meaningful way.
I think he will get a shot. But at the ultimate skill level his deficiencies will be exposed in my opinion. I have said often that I think he will be an excellent AHL or European player. I think where he gets exposed is with the guys with the talent and body to take advantage of him.
We will see, I am rooting for him. I don't think anybody is ever going to out-compete Joe Hicketts. Really there is a lot that is admirable about his game, but I have a ton of trouble projecting him up. He isn't a dynamic enough skater for just how small he is.
The thing I like about Cholo the most is even with a pretty big growth spurt over the last year and change he has such a smooth skating style. Plays with his head up seemingly all the time too which is something I love seeing out of a D-man at any level.
You trust it more than I do.
Mantha has a shot to be a 1st line winger, but I don't know that Larkin gets past a 2C, and Svech is a long way off yet.
Good to very good players, but nobody is a lock to be part of the next core (yet), and certainly nothing thus far to speak of on defense. I'd give it, 'Trending Upwards' for the scouting staff, but still very much, 'Wait and See'.
But I'm hoping they can do even greater things with a very high pick.
You should trust our judgement in drafting forwards. It's been proven many times. And you should be skeptical of our judgement in drafting defenseman until one materializes in the NHL in a meaningful way.
Not sure why you're lumping it all together. It's been two very different stories for us and we should know (more than anyone) by now being good at one doesn't guarantee the other necessarily.
Wright's done a good job so far, but even looking back at his CBJ days I don't see an example of him hitting big on a defenseman yet. Even the guy they took with a top 5 pick (Ryan Murray) hasn't really done a lot in the NHL compared to where he was taken.
Wright's done a good job so far, but even looking back at his CBJ days I don't see an example of him hitting big on a defenseman yet. Even the guy they took with a top 5 pick (Ryan Murray) hasn't really done a lot in the NHL compared to where he was taken.
Is Ryan Murray that bad of of top pick in that draft, though? He just turned 23 and is almost a year younger than Ryan Sproul.
Last two drafts we've seen Vili Saajarvvi selected, Filip Hronek, and Dennis Cholowski. All of them have sweet styles and are potential top four guys. With recent draft success, I again trust Wright and company with our first.
Dude, Ryan Murray was drafted in a terrible, terrible draft. He was also a shoe in for a top three pick. It was the right pick in hindsight. He's a defensive D so his numbers won't blow you away. Add in the injuries as well. After missing an entire year he put up 25 points last year. That draft did produce some solid defenseman though.
There are a very limited number of top-pairing d-men taken outside of the 1st round in the last 15 years. And an almost as limited number of top 4 d-men taken outside of the first 2 rounds. It's not at all strange that the team with the worst 1st round draft position from the early 90s to 2010, and the least amount of total draft picks, would be one of the teams that has struggled to find top 4 d-men.But there are plenty of teams that find good defensemen outside of the first round. Should a 1st yield an NHL player? Yes. But over the course of a decade, to not have found a single top-4 guy in ANY round? C'mon.
Again, I'm hopeful they can turn the corner on this, but the last several years is more than just not having early picks. It's not using enough picks in any round on D, and not hitting on anything that they do use on D.
There are a very limited number of top-pairing d-men taken outside of the 1st round in the last 15 years. And an almost as limited number of top 4 d-men taken outside of the first 2 rounds. It's not at all strange that the team with the worst 1st round draft position from the early 90s to 2010, and the least amount of total draft picks, would be one of the teams that has struggled to find top 4 d-men.
I'm trying to bring some nuance to the argument that we suck at drafting d-men. We didn't exactly draft McIlrath over Fowler.
When we took Kindl, the allmighty Predators took an even worse guy right before us. And the best guy taken after was Niskanen 10 picks later, very much a reach for us. Best guy taken after Smith was Subban, again it would have been a huge reach to take a 2nd round talent in the 1st round instead of Smith who looked like a great prospects for years. A lot of the great late round guys weren't available at all to us. Keith, Weber, Edler, all taken before we made our first selection in those drafts. You can say we didn't use enough picks on D, but we don't really need more d-men. And no amount of late round picks used on d-men over the years can conjure up talent where there was none available.