Defensive issues/Fix the defense thread

[Shady Machine]

Guys, while I agree the Pens need another top 4 d-man, it's mostly been the forwards that have been causing the problems. They continue to make blind passes in their own zone and try to make pretty east-west plays in the neutral zone instead of keeping it north. Bylsma putting Kennedy and Cooke on their off-wings for the Jets game didn't help in that regard. It's much harder to get the puck out of your own end when a player is on their off-wing, and it showed tonight.

I'm so tired of this "north" ****. I've played hockey my whole life and have never heard a coach yell "go north". The focus needs to be more on puck support and less long stretch passes. The cross ice passes have been a problem, but so has this stretch bull **** every time we get the puck.

 

[The Tang]

The Michalek trade made zero sense. Absolutely zero.

Until you consider the idea that Michalek hated the situation and wanted out...

 

[Captain Hook]

It's like Shero put all his money on Suter and when he missed out he didn't have backup plan.

Good D-Men are hard to find. Teams just don't look to trade them for the most part and the UFA market outside of Suter wasn't great. I believe Shero talked to Phoenix about Yandle too but Pens didn't really have what Phoenix was looking for to make a deal.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

I apologize for my previous post. In the end, if we just play "Penguins hockey" we'll be OK.

 

[Shockmaster]

Are you sure about that?

I can remember seeing quite a few turnovers in our own zone.

True, but most of those came from the forwards rather than the defensemen.

 

[#66]

Too many times I saw forwards leaving the zone before the play was broken up. Same **** from last season.

It's on coaching at this point.

Shero too. There are way to many holes in important areas on this team. How long is it going to take to get Crosby a winger? This is crazy already. The Flyers and Rangers find players like Read and Hagelin but the Pens are going to sit on glorified role players??? To be honest I think he has as little a clue about offensive hockey as Disco.

 

[Captain Hook]

Michalek wasn't that good here imo and he looked pretty bad in a Coyotes game I watched a couple days ago.

The D has played to it's record. Guys like Martin played 2 good games to start and 2 bad games since.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Talent isn't this teams problem, coaching is. Lack of discipline, unmotivated, nonexistent adjustments and giveaways galore. In general there seems to be a total lack of basic fundamentals. I don't think any amount of talent will help this team until the coaching staff is replaced.

DB solution to protecting a 2 goal lead is to score a 3rd goal. There still gonna win a ton of games this year and be fun to watch but when the playoffs roll around its gonna be a different story u dont win this way in the playoffs.

 

[gordie]

Talent isn't this teams problem, coaching is. Lack of discipline, unmotivated, nonexistent adjustments and giveaways galore. I don't think any amount of talent will help this team until the coaching staff is replaced.

Said all this stuff last spring but until they get some kind of defenseman that will clear the crease and stop the opposition from driving to the net or screening the goalie like Antropov did unmolested it really won't make a difference.

 

[Shockmaster]

Shero too. There are way to many holes in important areas on this team. How long is it going to take to get Crosby a winger? This is crazy already. The Flyers and Rangers find players like Read and Hagelin but the Pens are going to sit on glorified role players??? To be honest I think he has as little a clue about offensive hockey as Disco.

Shero tends to be hesitant to make deals that involve trading prospects. Remember the Hossa deal? Rumor is Mario and Ron Burkle forced Shero to make that move.

 

[billybudd]

Here's a question: did we win the cup using Andre Savard's scheme? Or was Rierden's implemented at that time?

 

[The Tang]

Said all this stuff last spring but until they get some kind of defenseman that will clear the crease and stop the opposition from driving to the net or screening the goalie like Antropov did unmolested it really won't make a difference.

I agree adding a winger for Crosby or a physical, crease clearing defender will help, depth is always key, but talent only goes so far. If you've got a bad system with a bad coach, talent won't be able to overcome it.

 

[The Tang]

Here's a question: did we win the cup using Andre Savard's scheme? Or was Rierden's implemented at that time?

Wasn't Fitzgerald doing the defense during the cup run?

 

[Ugene Magic]

True, but most of those came from the forwards rather than the defensemen.

Paul martin and Letang have something to say about that. I'd lean towards 50/50 on that. Both forwards and D-man were pretty atrocious.

 

[Captain Hook]

I think the Antropov goal was another mental lapse where nobody went to the net with him to box him out so he got to screen the goalie.

It's not really a lack of physical talent as much as endless mental mistakes. Falls on the coach to be the teacher though and Bylsma isn't doing a great job in that regard. I'm sure the real culprits will play next game and some random player a la Despres will be benched for the horrendous play of others.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Talent isn't this teams problem, coaching is. Lack of discipline, unmotivated, nonexistent adjustments and giveaways galore.

This is the real problem. Disco for whatever reason, will not change his strategy in-game. I don't know why but he doesn't.

The giveaways were something crazy tonight... I mean we've had some bad ones this week but tonight was a ****ing giveaway circus. It was embarrassing.

Either we got game planned to a T by the other team (what I think is likely), or players are trying to get Disco fired (unlikely at this point but if we keep losing to teams we should beat that might change in a hurry). What I worry about is we'd replace him from within and use the same system, the same way probably. I suppose it's possible a more experienced coach with the same system could make the difference by making in game adjustments rather than completely changing the system.

 

[billybudd]

https://twitter.com/Buccigross/status/295011017535131648

Just don't the Penguins contending for a Cup with its current group of defenseman. They have to make a move if possible.


This is the same def that was terrible last year and they basically did nothing to change it. I guess shero and DB thought it was magically gonna get better this year. What a joke

It's not the D that caused a problem tonight. They just get put in bad spot after bad spot in unexpected and botched transitions. That's either the forwards failing at puck management or Claude Noel countering everything the Penguins coaching staff is telling the players to do on the whiteboard.

 

[mpp9]

List of reasons why we lost in order.

1) Coaching
2) Defensive play by forwards
3) Discipline
4) Scoring depth

Our top 4 D did not play badly. Letang had an off game, but he's Kris Letang, he'll rebound. Niskanen had a very solid game. And Martin's game tonight was something we'd wish for last season.

 

[Shockmaster]

Paul martin and Letang have something to say about that. I'd lean towards 50/50 on that. Both forwards and D-man were pretty atrocious.

In the last two game it's mostly been on the forwards. They make blind passes and try to make pretty east-west plays. Kennedy and Cooke were clearly having problems in their own end clearing the puck playing their off-wings. That didn't help the situation.

 

[gordie]

This is the real problem. Disco for whatever reason, will not change his strategy in-game. I don't know why but he doesn't.

The giveaways were something crazy tonight... I mean we've had some bad ones this week but tonight was a ****ing giveaway circus. It was embarrassing.

Either we got game planned to a T by the other team (what I think is likely), or players are trying to get Disco fired (unlikely at this point but if we keep losing to teams we should beat that might change in a hurry). What I worry about is we'd replace him from within and use the same system, the same way.

Ego maybe?

 

[wgknestrick]

Pens best players have not been their "best players". It is as simple as that. They aren't leading by example, but are the problem. TV was solid in net with great positioning and rebound control through most of the night.

 

[billybudd]

Wasn't Fitzgerald doing the defense during the cup run?

Fitzgerald's the name I was looking for. He was *coaching the D, but was he using Savard's playbook? My recollection is he was.

Edit: *should say "in charge of team defense"

 

[Darth Vitale]

Ego maybe?

Maybe ego... maybe he panics when he feels a game slipping away... maybe his players get frustrated and zone out when they're losing... I don't know. Whatever he's doing back there, it ain't workin'.

 

[gordie]

Pens best players have not been their "best players". It is as simple as that. They aren't leading by example, but are the problem. TV was solid in net with great positioning and rebound control through most of the night.

I'm on the passenger theory. Too many passengers and lazy boneheads can drag even the greatest stars and their teams down.

 

[mpp9]

Whoever thinks the defensive zone coverage is more on the D-men than the forwards is high as ****. Our top 4 D have played well.

Cooke had a terribad turnover. And Lovejoy an awful read.

I don't buy that Orpik/Martin + Niskanen/Letang can't be our top 4 in the postseason.