Prospect Info: David Reinbacher - Laval Rocket edition

[Maitz]

Reinbacher is victim of his draft rank but those kind of D, the upside of a top 4 big physical playing PK and munching minutes are worth top 10 for sure, just not flashy and points machines. If he was a 13th overall we would say how much of a steal we got at 13th, We have to let the Michkov talk stop now, enough is enough. Watch the playoffs right now, if he reach his upside he will be worth his 5th overall and we will love him

 

[Whitesnake]

The injury concerns are legitimate and not put forward by haters only.

He did miss half the season and even when he came back, had stretches where he wouldn't play for weeks. He was a part time hockey player.
Those are facts it's perfectly fine to have concerns with it.

Big word...haters. Some wise man here keep saying to me that the world isn't always just black and white. Often true. But more true when people talk about prospects and posters here automatically separate other posters as haters as soon as somebody isn't a blinded fan, had other preferences or has concerns....

 

[Naslundforever]

I watched 5 minutes last night, tuned in as he skated the puck back behind the net with a guy on his back for no reason and choked it up into a prime scoring chance… Glad to see that’s not how the rest of his evening went lol (watched the recap).

Agree with the posters saying whoever makes the habs better next year gets a spot at rhd whether him, Mailloux, both or neither. Been needing rhd for so long in that line up it seems..

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I guess my biggest gripe with Reinbacher in the playoffs is he hasn't elevated his intensity level from the regular season. In the regular season, it was clear to me he was the best player in the game most games. Now, he's just been fine. I see him losing some 50/50 battles vs the forechecker more often than he used to.

 

[Naslundforever]

Big word...haters. Some wise man here keep saying to me that the world isn't always just black and white. Often true. But more true when people talk about prospects and posters here automatically separate other posters as haters as soon as somebody isn't a blinded fan, had other preferences or has concerns....

Sign of the times.. So much easier to point to one of 2x things (hater vs fan in this case) than to express actual opinions or have conversations that don’t have only one of two possible angles/conclusions..

 

[Whitesnake]

Reinbacher is victim of his draft rank but those kind of D, the upside of a top 4 big physical playing PK and munching minutes are worth top 10 for sure, just not flashy and points machines. If he was a 13th overall we would say how much of a steal we got at 13th, We have to let the Michkov talk stop now, enough is enough. Watch the playoffs right now, if he reach his upside he will be worth his 5th overall and we will love him

True...but thing is.....how often do you find those types of D's outside the top 5? Can it be solely about luck? How are the Canes always that lucky? Looking at the minute eaters this year...not a lot of top 5 picks. Actually top 5 picks are exceptions. And if the point is...that's because not a lot of D's are being picked top 5...well you could expand that to top 10 if you want. Still not a lot of those. And I'll say that most top 10 D have had that idea that they could very well be real 2-way D's.

I think that Reinbacher still has that to proove. Still has some PP time to get at least with the Rocket. Still has some breakouts to lead. But I,ve seen a few yesterday from him. Again, my biggest questions right now are his hands, his offensive ceiling and his reaction towards pressure.

And the idea is this....when are you guys expecting this team to be contender. And will this BEST RD we have in our organization be ready to play a key role on that team.

 

[Kennerback]

Who is picked is the Head scout job. Who he's traded for is the GM. For example, let say we pick David Fischer...and the guy is a dud. That's on the scouting team. But let say our GM is able to find an even worst GM than him, and trades Fischer for a good player...it doesn't make Fischer a great pick. It makes the trade a great trade.

As far as your example is concerned....Fischer for Giroux..of course. Not a lot of people though use Pacioretty for Perron as a proof of bad pick. If so, that's bad faith. Even me I don't use that....lollll

There’s different levels to it. I think that on the day of the draft knowing only what I know today, I think Michkov was objectively a better choice than RB. He still looks like the BPA. For now.

But then there’s the idea that we would be better off with Michkov than RB today. No I don’t believe that. A lot of water has run under the bridge since that draft 2 years ago. We need a player like RB today more than Michkov. Does it make the 2023 scouting staff’s choice of BPA any better? No. It was not the good choice. Am I happier that we have RB on this team over Michkov today? Yes.

 

[Tyson]

People should be excited about this kid. No more looking back at to why he was drafted over other prospects. If you are watching the Calder Cup playoffs you are seeing why players like this are so coveted. Habs have two talented 6'3 RD Dmen and that is exciting for the future.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Who is picked is the Head scout job. Who he's traded for is the GM. For example, let say we pick David Fischer...and the guy is a dud. That's on the scouting team. But let say our GM is able to find an even worst GM than him, and trades Fischer for a good player...it doesn't make Fischer a great pick. It makes the trade a great trade.

As far as your example is concerned....Fischer for Giroux..of course. Not a lot of people though use Pacioretty for Perron as a proof of bad pick. If so, that's bad faith. Even me I don't use that....lollll

Its both both of their jobs, with the buck stopping at the GM. The scouting department and especially the head scout help with assembling the draft board, but its on the GM to make the pick (or, say, trade it). If a prospect is going to be traded, the head scout should still have input on how the prospect is to be valued.

And there was A LOT of criticism of Pacioretty over Perron. Especially in 2009-2010 when Pacioretty didn't stick in the NHL and was only ok in the AHL and Perron was a 20 goal scorer in the NHL. It was frankly louder than Fischer over Giroux since no one was defending Fischer.

The problem with criticising prospects isn't the criticsm, its that it usually veers off into grand statements, usually about a players ceiling. And among fans its basically entirely personal opinion, so if someone genuinely disagrees it basically devolves into a "no, you're wrong" argument which is waste of time.

 

[Miller Time]

Thing though is this..when the draft happens...it,s obviously too soon. When we are 5 years-7 years past it....why do we revisit old draft picks?

In what job do you have the luxury to always be excused because of how unexact the science is AND NEVER be subject to revisiting your past moves to assess how good you are/were?

you have to think that even amongst teams, some scouts are being let go 'cause at one point, their job is being reviewed.

the scouting quality is more about what happens leading up to the draft than about what happens after.

Scouts have no control on what happens to a player after the draft.

Evaluating their assessment about players should be about how closely/accurately they identified the risk/reward profiles of the prospect, not about how good of an NHL career the player eventually had... Doing that you'd have to wait until the players retirement to fully make the hindsight assessment (& learn nothing more about the quality of the prospect evaluation & scouting process or it's efficacy, which is the only thing you should be evaluating anyways).

 

[montreal]

He was a beast last night.

offensively yes, defensively not so much. Had that turnover right in front of Primeau ended up in the back up the net, that could have changed the outcome of the game.

 

[WinterLion]

We did not see the same game at all......but it's fine. To each their own interpretation. A lot of fumbles, not reacting the best way under pressure...that play where he starts on his own blue line to finish behind his own net to try to avoid pressure...and STILL lose the puck was a really really bad play. But he is at the age he is at. But hey, true that it takes a longer time to develop. See Simon freakin Benoit.....Thing is....will he be ready when THE TEAM is ready? And disregarding who was taken at that rank, is he a typical top 5 pick.

Yes, it's always tough when you prefer other players instead of the one that is being taken. But for me, let say a guy liek Buium would have been avaiable and from the same draft, EVEN if i would have still preferred Michkov or maybe even Leonard, I would see the ELITE qualities that Buium brings. And would be able to judge Buium for what he is.

David for me, at best, could develop into a safe No 4 d-man. With limited offensive upside. But Good pk'er and safe minute eater. You need those guys. But even if he is that....he has WAYS to go in my opinion. Which is also normal due to the time he missed. I really don't see how he is envisioned in a NHL lineup in September. Don't agree with that but that's just my opinion.

A guy like Mailloux who I wasn't a fan of either and thought he might have a greater value in a trade...looks way more capable of getting that opening. And frankly, David would need an insane preseason and Mailloux a tough one to be able to surpass him.

I definitely noticed the fumbles and one TERRIBLE turnover. But I was really impressed with the amount of minutes he was munching and the amount of plays he is able to break up (albeit while often looking a bit awkward). He makes mistakes but pressures the puck all over the ice. That was a tough game and he kept battling and I thought stepped up after we lost Wotherspoon.

Just saying I do see your side I think and don't completely disagree... I just love his involvement even if it still isn't perfect and I think it will lead to him being very valuable on a winning team someday.. and even yesterday in the AHL.

 

[WinterLion]

offensively yes, defensively not so much. Had that turnover right in front of Primeau ended up in the back up the net, that could have changed the outcome of the game.

He definitely needs to cut down on the turnovers. That will be key for him.

 

[DAChampion]

Thing though is this..when the draft happens...it,s obviously too soon. When we are 5 years-7 years past it....why do we revisit old draft picks?

In what job do you have the luxury to always be excused because of how unexact the science is AND NEVER be subject to revisiting your past moves to assess how good you are/were?

you have to think that even amongst teams, some scouts are being let go 'cause at one point, their job is being reviewed.

The revisiting is usually (but not always) done by people claiming to always or nearly always be right by just looking at whomever was most successful. It's not interesting or insightful. It's just validation seeking.

You mention jobs. I hope that in your case, you are evaluated by somebody who is competent to evaluate your work, and is not just looking to criticize you to feel superior.

 

[DesmondDekker]

True...but thing is.....how often do you find those types of D's outside the top 5? Can it be solely about luck? How are the Canes always that lucky? Looking at the minute eaters this year...not a lot of top 5 picks. Actually top 5 picks are exceptions. And if the point is...that's because not a lot of D's are being picked top 5...well you could expand that to top 10 if you want. Still not a lot of those. And I'll say that most top 10 D have had that idea that they could very well be real 2-way D's.

Exactly. Over the past 10 drafts, there are at least 1-2 quality top 4 dmen every year who got drafted in the second round only. Didn’t bother checking beyond round three, but we know you can hit homeruns on dmen in laters rounds as well. Much less common among forwards. Goalies are voodoo.

Most dmen take longer to develop and consequently are harder to project when they are 17-18 years old, always riskier to pick them at the very top of the draft unless there is a real gap in talent. We picked Reinbacher because we valued his position more than a scoring winger.

 

[TomKosto]

Reinbacher plays nothing like the spacek we knew in mtl though. Spacek from what i can recall was defensively oriented. Reinbacher is the opposite. He loves to join the attack at any chance he gets.

Why do you quoted me talking about Spacek when I didnt mentioned him?! Kinda strange lmfao

 

[Whitesnake]

Its both both of their jobs, with the buck stopping at the GM. The scouting department and especially the head scout help with assembling the draft board, but its on the GM to make the pick (or, say, trade it). If a prospect is going to be traded, the head scout should still have input on how the prospect is to be valued.

And there was A LOT of criticism of Pacioretty over Perron. Especially in 2009-2010 when Pacioretty didn't stick in the NHL and was only ok in the AHL and Perron was a 20 goal scorer in the NHL. It was frankly louder than Fischer over Giroux since no one was defending Fischer.

The problem with criticising prospects isn't the criticsm, its that it usually veers off into grand statements, usually about a players ceiling. And among fans its basically entirely personal opinion, so if someone genuinely disagrees it basically devolves into a "no, you're wrong" argument which is waste of time.

Everybody who watched the draft shows know that it doesn't stop with the GM. What stops with the GM is trading picks. It,s who he picks as head scout. But at the Caulfield pick, you see Timmins talking to Churla. And both agreeing to go there.

To me, it makes NO SENSE that drafting stops with the GM. Why? Cause the GM in 3-5 years might not be there, 3 to 5 years, that's what it takes for picks to MAYBE flourish with the big league. People talk about Reinbacher maybe being great in 5 to 7 years...how the heck does a GM have anything to say since he clearly has not seen as much the players play....AND when he's not going to be there, maybe, to use that value with the big team.

As far as people talking about prospects, again, I will never believe that people posting opinions have to right IN MY OPINION each time. EVEN if they go as far as saying YOU ARE WRONG...it's still in their opinion. Why? 'Cause if they'd talk about facts, they wouldn't be here discussing it...they'd be working for a team...or too rich to even care....if they can see the future...

 

[Sorinth]

Thing though is this..when the draft happens...it,s obviously too soon. When we are 5 years-7 years past it....why do we revisit old draft picks?

In what job do you have the luxury to always be excused because of how unexact the science is AND NEVER be subject to revisiting your past moves to assess how good you are/were?

you have to think that even amongst teams, some scouts are being let go 'cause at one point, their job is being reviewed.

Keep in mind a GM evaluating a scouts performance isn't going to just look at who we picked and how they turned out like we fans. They have access to all that scouts reports most of which will be for players we didn't pick. So there's a lot more they can be judged on that we as fans don't see.

 

[Legend123]

Why do you quoted me talking about Spacek when I didnt mentioned him?! Kinda strange lmfao

Oops I meant hamrlik

Same type of player. I confused them.

 

[Whitesnake]

Keep in mind a GM evaluating a scouts performance isn't going to just look at who we picked and how they turned out like we fans. They have access to all that scouts reports most of which will be for players we didn't pick. So there's a lot more they can be judged on that we as fans don't see.

Of course. That's clearly what they look for. As a scout can only be responsible for guys he brings up or doesn't. And then, it's the head scout and higher up who make the final decision. Usually they do all come to a consensus...but obviously it surely means that if everybody would make their own list, it'd be different. Clearly also based on who they see more though.

 

[Mrb1p]

Exactly. Over the past 10 drafts, there are at least 1-2 quality top 4 dmen every year who got drafted in the second round only. Didn’t bother checking beyond round three, but we know you can hit homeruns on dmen in laters rounds as well. Much less common among forwards. Goalies are voodoo.

Most dmen take longer to develop and consequently are harder to project when they are 17-18 years old, always riskier to pick them at the very top of the draft unless there is a real gap in talent. We picked Reinbacher because we valued his position more than a scoring winger.

See, I had that exact same discourse a few years ago when they drafted Guhle. I was wrong. In that time and I think its wrong now too.

I dont endorse the Reinbacher pick because I still believe Michkov is the slam dunk better player, but I dont believe in the late D vs early forward argument.

Theres just too many variables and variance from year to year to make it true. Pick the BPA, always, no matter the position.

 

[Habnot]

Making an error on a play does not make him a lesser prospect. Somehow you can only worthy if you play 100% error free D while significantly contributing offensively.

What I saw last night is a skill set way above any D on the Rockets. The speed and the puck movement are NHL+ level. His puck retrieval skills are also impressive.

Once he adds 10-15 pounds and becomes more confident he will be an impactful players on the Habs blue line for years.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I am rather worried that the scouts on here worries more about his defense than his offense. It should be the other way around, his defensive game should be top notch by now for a prospect like him.

We drafted him to be a Top 3 RD rock on the blueline. Not for him to make defensive blunders. Blunders should belong to guys like Logan Mailloux, whose style was always Brent Burns/Al Iafrate-esque.

So much for the Serge Savard comparisons. Savard was a freaking beast both defensively and offensively before the injury, but he managed to pull together a beautiful career by falling back to a flawless defensive game, with his geometrical instincts and flair.

I hope this gets fixed soon.

 

[BenchBrawl]

^Might seem paradoxical after I called fans impatient, but this is not about the timeline, more about what is emerging in terms of flaws vs. strengths.

 

[Kennerback]

^Might seem paradoxical after I called fans impatient, but this is not about the timeline, more about what is emerging in terms of flaws vs. strengths.

First we need to define what we mean by defensive play. It’s clear he’ll never play that tough as nails defensive game like Seider. No point looking into that as he’ll never get there.

If I look at gap control, covering the right guy and getting the puck out of trouble without losing control, I see improvement. On the other hand, he had one Matheson level brain cramp last game. I think those are becoming fewer and far between.