Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II

[Mac n Gs]

That we have historically bad shot shares and we shouldn't. You're the one going around in circles.

Right, but we know this is heavily biased towards what happened at the beginning of the season. If we take this last batch of ~20 games, they're 16th and 18th in CF% and xGF%. If you break down xGF%, they're 8th in xGF/60 and 25th in xGA/60. There's a clear trend for an improvement there, which is what's important to see in a young, rebuilding team.

It's still a work in progress, but it's obviously starting to get better.

 

[True Blue]

That we have historically bad shot shares and we shouldn't. You're the one going around in circles.

Ok, fantastic. What point are you trying to make here? That this falls on Quinn's shoulders and that he is a bad coach?

 

[Machinehead]

Right, but we know this is heavily biased towards what happened at the beginning of the season. If we take this last batch of ~20 games, they're 16th and 18th in CF% and xGF%. If you break down xGF%, they're 8th in xGF/60 and 25th in xGA/60. There's a clear trend for an improvement there, which is what's important to see in a young, rebuilding team.

It's still a work in progress, but it's obviously starting to get better.

No arguments here.

Ok, fantastic. What point are you trying to make here? That this falls on Quinn's shoulders and that he is a bad coach?

He's not helping

 

[True Blue]

He's not helping

And you do not believe that icing a team with this type of defense and a lack of defensive minded forwards does not help?

Again, go back 25 years and find another team whose top 6 consisted of 3 rookies and a sophomore.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No arguments here.

He's not helping

Let us know if you ever come upon a coach that is helping, with anything.

 

[McRanger]

And you do not believe that icing a team with this type of defense and a lack of defensive minded forwards does not help?

Again, go back 25 years and find another team whose top 6 consisted of 3 rookies and a sophomore.

This is just a guess but I would think if you are looking at it from @Machinehead ‘s angle ("We are historically bad from a fancy stats perspective!" -MH) your argument would only really make sense if our rookies were dragging our stats down and our worst pair wasn't our top pair of Trouba and Skjei, who are two veterans. The rookie Fox and the not-a-sophomore sophomore Deangelo are the 2 best D men statistically. The rookie Lindgren is 4th.

The rookie Hajek has been atrocious though, no doubt he's murdering the stats and ratios and whatnot. And the veteran Staal has been himself, so despite repeatedly hearing that getting rid of him most do much, having him around is probably a killer too, at least statistically.

 

[Machinehead]

And you do not believe that icing a team with this type of defense and a lack of defensive minded forwards does not help?

Again, go back 25 years and find another team whose top 6 consisted of 3 rookies and a sophomore.

You just said we had the talent to make the playoffs and now the team isn't good enough again.

Round and round we go.

Let us know if you ever come upon a coach that is helping, with anything.

There's lots of coaches I like.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I'm hoping the stars align with Bruce Boudreau...

 

[True Blue]

You just said we had the talent to make the playoffs and now the team isn't good enough again.

Round and round we go.

I NEVER said that the talent is here to make the playoffs. YOU stated that NO ONE said that. I posted for your eyes a direct statement from another poster in this thread who did. Speaking of going round and round. I have maintained all along that the team is not good enough. You should probably read all of the responses first to get an idea, no?

 

[JHS]

I think therein lies one of the basic fundamental differences between you and most of the people debating with you. And this goes back to the summer arguments.

You saw the signings of Panarin & Trouba and saw playoffs. Most of us saw that as a pie in the sky, everything needs to go right scenario. The much more realistic view is what you are seeing. A team that is likely far
closer to a lottery team than a playoff team.

Those that has completely unrealistic expectations see this team as underachieving. The more realistic view has this team either exactly where it was thought it would be or overachieving.

This is one of (not the only one) major drivers of how you view Quinn, pro or con

No the ones with weak expectations who are apologists for the organization and are content with losing believe this team is incapable of playing NHL caliber defense or that maybe, if this team played better defense they’d close the gap between them and a playoff team. I can’t for the life of me, understand that people can’t see the talent here. The same group though wants us to continue to give passes to players because they are “young.” Please, be a real fan and expect the team to do well. The organization does not need any appologists.

 

[Machinehead]

I NEVER said that the talent is here to make the playoffs. YOU stated that NO ONE said that. I posted for your eyes a direct statement from another poster in this thread who did. Speaking of going round and round. I have maintained all along that the team is not good enough. You should probably read all of the responses first to get an idea, no?

The talent level isn't the point. They should be better than they are. There's an awful lot of ground between the playoffs and where they are. It isn't one or the other.

 

[True Blue]

The talent level isn't the point. They should be better than they are. There's an awful lot of ground between the playoffs and where they are. It isn't one or the other.

The talent is a part of the point And if they are a lottery team, then they are basically not that great of an ensemble.

 

[True Blue]

No the ones with weak expectations who are apologists for the organization and are content with losing believe this team is incapable of playing NHL caliber defense or that maybe, if this team played better defense they’d close the gap between them and a playoff team. I can’t for the life of me, understand that people can’t see the talent here. The same group though wants us to continue to give passes to players because they are “young.” Please, be a real fan and expect the team to do well. The organization does not need any appologists.

Ohhh.....I am so very angry. Why can't people just see that I am right, dammit?

Looks like the great majority of the board have weak expectations and are apologists. Where oh where is your silent majority, I wonder?

 

[Machinehead]

The talent is a part of the point And if they are a lottery team, then they are basically not that great of an ensemble.

Ok, we all agree they're rebuilding. That means we can't criticize them at all?

 

[True Blue]

That means we can't criticize them at all?

Of course you can. And of course it can be rebutted.

 

[JHS]

Ohhh.....I am so very angry. Why can't people just see that I am right, dammit?

Looks like the great majority of the board have weak expectations and are apologists. Where oh where is your silent majority, I wonder?

Taunting me? Really?? My friend, you just reveal your character more and more. As I have started to do with you more often, if you are not going to engage in actual debate than I’ll just ignore the nonsense of the personal attacks.

I’ll try a new angle here. So, now that we have a 3 goalie rotation with Hank on the way out and we can’t rely on him anymore to bail us out and we will likely have two or maybe one really young goalie taking the reigns here in the next few years. If I was coaching this team and I did not want to sail my goaltenders down the river without a life raft, I’d be encouraging a tight defensive system. Why? Because I’d recognize that it’s not a winning formula to play reckless without a proven backstop in the net. This team could get away with reckless defense because Hank could bail them out. Well those days are done. So here we are, Quinn is now in year two, can’t get this team to tighten up, will be leaving whoever is next in goal out to dry because he has not instilled a defensive system for this roster that works. Geez has anyone considered how that may hurt the development of his future netminders??? You think Georgie and Igor are going to bail out the defensive blunders as often as Hank did? You think their confidence will suffer from being shelled game in and game out? You think Quinn will just snap his fingers and get this team to play defensively responsible hockey???

Compare that to Torts in Columbus. He protects those young goalies by playing a system that keeps the puck out of high scoring chance areas. Why? Because that’s what good coaches do!! And as had been pointed out, Columbus’ roster is only about a year older on average than the Rangers filled with a blue line that is almost entirely been destroyed by injuries. They’ve gone like 13-2 in the past 15 games or something like that.

But yeah, the Rangers are “overachieving” like @True Blue wants us all to believe. @Machinehead is totally right- it’s absurd that some on here are ok with the team being historically terrible defensively. With such low standards I guess I’ll get to planning the parade for when the Rangers finish 11th in the conference...

 

[Machinehead]

Of course you can. And of course it can be rebutted.

Screeching "they're rebuilding" at anything and everything is not a rebut.

We know they're rebuilding.

 

[Mac n Gs]

No arguments here.

He's not helping

My view is that I'm taking Quinn's successes in increments rather than looking at his total body of work for this season. I saw a lot of things I liked from individual players in the first 20 games or so but absolutely hated how they looked as a 5man unit. Lately, I've been seeing things that frustrate me more on an individual level, but I've also seen teammates do much better jobs at covering for those mistakes to make them play an overall more well-rounded team game. The results back this up too, which I'm happy to finally see.

Hopefully they'll figure out the right balance between the two because I do think there is a lot of potential for success under Quinn. The biggest thing right now is getting that bottom-6 going. I've liked a lot of the younger guys individually, but their team game has been pissing me off. I think balancing them throughout the lineup right now could be beneficial for everyone.

 

[True Blue]

Screeching "they're rebuilding" at anything and everything is not a rebut.

Considering that has not been what I have have been saying, I have no idea what screeching you are referring to. Again, if you are going to debate with someone, it probably helps to actually see what said person's positions are and what has or has not been said.

 

[Machinehead]

Considering that has not been what I have have been saying, I have no idea what screeching you are referring to. Again, if you are going to debate with someone, it probably helps to actually see what said person's positions are and what has or has not been said.

I think the issue is that your positions are incoherent.

 

[NYR]

WTF.. How about we just cut all the excuses and conspiracy theory BS for once and just INSTALL A SYSTEM THAT UTILIZES THE PLAYERS WE HAVE ALREADY?!

Win or lose, I'm sure we can ALL deal with that...BUT..Why it don't happen, you ask?

It's because DQ/JG are stubborn f***ing nitwits.

YES... It's really that f***ing simple..

 

[True Blue]

Taunting me? Really?? My friend, you just reveal your character more and more. As I have started to do with you more often, if you are not going to engage in actual debate than I’ll just ignore the nonsense of the personal attacks.

You of course are free to do or say as you please. However, you DID state that it upsets you that more people do not see the same things in Quinn as you do.

So, now that we have a 3 goalie rotation with Hank on the way out and we can’t rely on him anymore to bail us out and we will likely have two or maybe one really young goalie taking the reigns here in the next few years. If I was coaching this team and I did not want to sail my goaltenders down the river without a life raft, I’d be encouraging a tight defensive system.

Seems to me that you are about to embark down the same path with me as you did with Tawnos. My suggestion is that you refer back a few pages to see what the responses are.

So here we are, Quinn is now in year two, can’t get this team to tighten up, will be leaving whoever is next in goal out to dry because he has not instilled a defensive system for this roster that works.

Again, please refer to previous pages as well as the Columbus post game debates to see what the responses are to this.

You think Georgie and Igor are going to bail out the defensive blunders as often as Hank did? You think their confidence will suffer from being shelled game in and game out? You think Quinn will just snap his fingers and get this team to play defensively responsible hockey???

Same responses as before.

Compare that to Torts in Columbus. He protects those young goalies by playing a system that keeps the puck out of high scoring chance areas. Why? Because that’s what good coaches do!! And as had been pointed out, Columbus’ roster is only about a year older on average than the Rangers filled with a blue line that is almost entirely been destroyed by injuries. They’ve gone like 13-2 in the past 15 games or something like that.

Does Columbus have more forwards that are more defensive minded in nature than the Rangers? Yes or no? Does Columbus ice a team that features 3 rookies and a sophomore or 2 rookies, a sophomore and a Staal? Yes or no?

But yeah, the Rangers are “overachieving” like @True Blue wants us all to believe. @Machinehead is totally right- it’s absurd that some on here are ok with the team being historically terrible defensively. With such low standards I guess I’ll get to planning the parade for when the Rangers finish 11th in the conference...

You can have your own standards of course But when your standards were not and are not anywhere near realistic, you should continue to be disappointed by the results. Over and over and over again.

 

[True Blue]

I think the issue is that your positions are incoherent.

I think that since you need to actually read all of the posts to understand proper positions instead of claiming that people are saying things that they are not. You know, actually know the actors in the play.

 

[JHS]

You of course are free to do or say as you please. However, you DID state that it upsets you that more people do not see the same things in Quinn as you do.

Seems to me that you are about to embark down the same path with me as you did with Tawnos. My suggestion is that you refer back a few pages to see what the responses are.

Again, please refer to previous pages as well as the Columbus post game debates to see what the responses are to this.

Same responses as before.

Does Columbus have more forwards that are more defensive minded in nature than the Rangers? Yes or no? Does Columbus ice a team that features 3 rookies and a sophomore or 2 rookies, a sophomore and a Staal? Yes or no?

You can have your own standards of course But when your standards were not and are not anywhere near realistic, you should continue to be disappointed by the results. Over and over and over again.

No @Tawnos actually offered insightful comments and we engaged in an actual debate- also notice how much civility we showed with each other even though we did not agree. I enjoyed that debate and I think he did too.

I can’t follow your response. I put forth a very good arguement about playing defensively responsible hockey in front of two young goalies. You responded by saying Columbus is older than the Rangers. I can’t even engage with that.

I think Torts has those guys playing defensively minded. Defense is a MINDSET that is established BY THE COACH!!! That’s the entire point here!!!

Columbus defensive corps ages...

27, 24,22,26 and 29... that’s 25.6 average

Rangers-
25,25, 33, 21,21,24 that’s a 24.8 average—

Please stop with this “defense is too young to play defense!

 

[Machinehead]

I think that since you need to actually read all of the posts to understand proper positions instead of claiming that people are saying things that they are not. You know, actually know the actors in the play.

I don't have this problem with anybody else.