Dave Hakstol

[Adam Warlock]

Kapler said he didn’t bunt because he didn’t want to play for a tie in Friday night’s game. Hakstol would have bunted in the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning.

Probably. Hed probably punt on 3rd down too.

 

[deadhead]

Yeah...but TK and Ghost are two players that we want to skate, pass, and shoot. I am not saying playing a 2-way game isnt important...I am just against taking pure offensive talents and crushing their offensive game and confidence to get them there.

Not every kid is going to be a perfect all around player. Guys like Coots are rare.

If you watched Las Vegas, Gallant even had guys like Marchessault back checking.

And Ghost playing defense hasn't hurt his offensive game, nor has he been asked to play like Provorov, rather, just some basics, like getting back on defense, using the body to get between a forward and the goal instead of just stick checking, and on offense, dumping the puck in when pressured at the blue line instead of turning it over.

In the same way, all they want from TK is to use "hockey sense," and play 200 feet. Don't just hang at your own blueline cherry picking, hoping for a pass when your defensemen are being pressured. And don't make dangerous cross ice passes that can result in breakaways unless you're sure it won't be intercepted. He's already an aggressive forechecker and willing to hit people, he just has to know when to be aggressive and when to get back.

You're not going to take a guy who lacks great instincts and have him play like Couts or Patrick, which is one reason Hextall is drafting a lot of guys with those instincts (Frost, Farabee, O'Brien, Rubtsov, etc). Some guys are just limited, I think Laughton just doesn't get how to play in his D-zone. But most players can improve on defense to the point where they're not a liability, even if they'll never be mentioned in the same breath with the Selke. Most of playing defense is the desire to do so, the key to back checking is primary the willingness to skate as hard going back to your goal as you did trying to score. When the defense can't get the puck out, it's often because the forwards have headed up ice instead of helping their teammates.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Probably. Hed probably punt on 3rd down too.

After vanilla running plays.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you watched Las Vegas, Gallant even had guys like Marchessault back checking.

And Ghost playing defense hasn't hurt his offensive game, nor has he been asked to play like Provorov, rather, just some basics, like getting back on defense, using the body to get between a forward and the goal instead of just stick checking, and on offense, dumping the puck in when pressured at the blue line instead of turning it over.

In the same way, all they want from TK is to use "hockey sense," and play 200 feet. Don't just hang at your own blueline cherry picking, hoping for a pass when your defensemen are being pressured. And don't make dangerous cross ice passes that can result in breakaways unless you're sure it won't be intercepted. He's already an aggressive forechecker and willing to hit people, he just has to know when to be aggressive and when to get back.

You're not going to take a guy who lacks great instincts and have him play like Couts or Patrick, which is one reason Hextall is drafting a lot of guys with those instincts (Frost, Farabee, O'Brien, Rubtsov, etc). Some guys are just limited, I think Laughton just doesn't get how to play in his D-zone. But most players can improve on defense to the point where they're not a liability, even if they'll never be mentioned in the same breath with the Selke. Most of playing defense is the desire to do so, the key to back checking is primary the willingness to skate as hard going back to your goal as you did trying to score. When the defense can't get the puck out, it's often because the forwards have headed up ice instead of helping their teammates.

TK has never lacked for effort. There has never been any rational reasoning for Hakstol's usage of TK.

I understand that you have to make things up though because otherwise you'd have to admit Hakstol made bad choices, and you cannot do that under any circumstance.

 

[Magua]

After vanilla running plays.

Checkdowns galore.

 

[kudymen]

Lacked effort? I remember during the time when he supposedly lacked effort, certain guy on here was saying he is trying too much and it hurts the team.

 

[Striiker]

Probably. Hed probably punt on 3rd down too.

Judging by his turtle tactics in every 3rd period, he’d be punting on 1st down for the entire 4th quarter.

He’s also be using linemen at all positions because size is the most important part of a hockey player.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hakstol would just kneel the ball on offense like Coach Red Beaulieu.

 

[FLYguy3911]

How do you all like my new offense?

 

[deadhead]

TK has never lacked for effort. There has never been any rational reasoning for Hakstol's usage of TK.

I understand that you have to make things up though because otherwise you'd have to admit Hakstol made bad choices, and you cannot do that under any circumstance.

Who said anything about effort?

TK, like a lot of young scorers, takes bad chances, such as careless cross ice passes, and often hangs out at the blue line looking for an outlet pass instead of helping his defense. He's gotten better (and he's even said playing with Giroux and Couts, they keep him in line) and will continue to improve. But part of that improvement requires holding him accountable for playing both ways.

As he becomes more responsible, he'll be given more responsibilities, such as PK duties.
Don't know how much PP time he'll get, that's a matter of fit.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who said anything about effort?

TK, like a lot of young scorers, takes bad chances, such as careless cross ice passes, and often hangs out at the blue line looking for an outlet pass instead of helping his defense. He's gotten better (and he's even said playing with Giroux and Couts, they keep him in line) and will continue to improve. But part of that improvement requires holding him accountable for playing both ways.

As he becomes more responsible, he'll be given more responsibilities, such as PK duties.
Don't know how much PP time he'll get, that's a matter of fit.

You have bashed his lack of effort defensively numerous times. So, you have. You've said it.

You also just did it again by accusing him of cherry picking.


Edit: why should he have PK duties? If the team is built right he should only have to work on scoring, like Briere once upon a time.

 

[deadhead]

Lack of effort defensively is different than lack of effort.

It's a problem a lot of young skilled players have, because in juniors/college they play with the puck, and aren't used to playing without it and being responsible defensively. Cherry picking is a very "juniors" type thing, because the game tends to be more wide open and fluid, again, not an effort question but a defensive responsibility question.

TK is an aggressive forechecker whose not afraid to throw his body around, he just has to be more focused on his entire game, not just looking to score. That is, understand when the puck starts the other direction, give up on the offense and get back on defense.

If you think TK should play more minutes, since he's on the 1st line, the only way that happens if he plays more on the PP (unlikley) or on the PK. His skill package would be suited to a more aggressive PK IF he learned to play under control, that is, not just chase the puck like a chicken with hits head cut off, but maintaining position and knowing passing angles.

The reason Couts and Giroux play so much is Giroux captains PP1, and Couts plays both PP1 and the PK.

 

[Striiker]

Gotta love antiquated hockey culture.

Scoring, but no defense = unacceptable, lazy, selfish

Defense, but no scoring = solid, reliable, honorable

You’ll never hear them bash someone for not being a two-way player when they’re a liability in the offensive zone. Because “that’s not their job”. You only have to be a two-way player if you’re one of those damn flashy scorers.

This kind of mentality is why the dinosaurs are getting left in the dust and becoming fossils.

 

[deadhead]

That's because there's a name for a "defense, and no scoring" - 4th line player, and they get paid as such.

The problem comes with the "scoring, no defense players," who get paid for points, and good luck trying to convince them to play defense if it hurts their stats, they figure some team will pay up.

There's also a name for "scoring and defense" players, WINNERS.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

i cant wait till were 20 games in the season and scrambling for a new coach cuz Hexy refused to accept Haktard wasnt a problem..

gunna be good times

 

[Beef Invictus]

Gotta love antiquated hockey culture.

Scoring, but no defense = unacceptable, lazy, selfish

Defense, but no scoring = solid, reliable, honorable

You’ll never hear them bash someone for not being a two-way player when they’re a liability in the offensive zone. Because “that’s not their job”. You only have to be a two-way player if you’re one of those damn flashy scorers.

This kind of mentality is why the dinosaurs are getting left in the dust and becoming fossils.

Meanwhile we have a coach who adores players who suck at everything.

 

[Magua]

You know that feeling when you look at words that you know are familiar and correct, but they look strange, as if you’ve never seen them before or are spelled wrong? That’s what happens every time I see this thread bumped with the words “Dave Hakstol.” It just doesn’t look right to my brain. I think we need to fire him or something to cure my mental ailment.

 

[Striiker]

i cant wait till were 20 games in the season and scrambling for a new coach cuz Hexy refused to accept Haktard wasnt a problem..

gunna be good times

Basically 0% chance that happens, for two reasons.

1) the roster is too good and still improving. They’re going to win plenty, in spite of their idiot coach.

2) there’s nearly no chance Hextall would change coach mid-year, unless something unrealistically drastic happens. He’s too patient for that kind of panic move. If he starts the year as coach, he’ll finish it.


Unfortunately, the roster is going to save Hakstol from getting fired in the near future. Just like how they carried his stupidity last year... and they’re just going to keep improving, despite him. Hextalls top achievement, drafting, is going to cover up his worst failure, coaching.

If I had to bet, Hakstol will be gone when his contract is up if there’s no cup win or at least a really really close playoff run by then. Just as a change-it-up move.

 

[deadhead]

And the next coach will run a similar style, forget a Lavi, you won't see that type for a number of reasons, one being Hextall's philosophy, two being there "can be only one," and Ron is the boss.

Funny how a team with no starting caliber goalies, one top player (Giroux), one rising star (Couts), two other above average forwards (Konency and TK) and two defensemen (Ghost and Provorov) can carry a coach.

Flyers had 4 forwards with 40+ ES points and no other forward with even 30.
Goalies had the second lowest S% of any playoff team (Penguins were .o1 lower).

Were the Flyers more talented than St Louis, Florida and Dallas last year? I don't think so.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And the next coach will run a similar style, forget a Lavi, you won't see that type for a number of reasons, one being Hextall's philosophy, two being there "can be only one," and Ron is the boss.

Funny how a team with no starting caliber goalies, one top player (Giroux), one rising star (Couts), two other above average forwards (Konency and TK) and two defensemen (Ghost and Provorov) can carry a coach.

Flyers had 4 forwards with 40+ ES points and no other forward with even 30.
Goalies had the second lowest S% of any playoff team (Penguins were .o1 lower).

Were the Flyers more talented than St Louis, Florida and Dallas last year? I don't think so.

You forgot Voracek, and yes, that is all it takes to carry a coach in the regular season until he gets abused again in the playoffs.

There's nothing "funny" about it. It's happened many times before. A strong core overcoming crap coaching is a tale as old as time.

 

[deadhead]

I just mistated, "Konecny and TK" should have been "Voracek and TK."

They didn't have a strong core. Solid playoff teams tend to roll two top lines and 4 solid defensemen, we didn't come close to that last year. We had four forwards and two defensemen, no other forward was better than 3rd line quality, no other defenseman better than 3rd pair quality.

The only player generally considered a top ten player at his position is Giroux, few people around the league consider Couts among the top ten centers. Neither TK or Voracek are considered among the top ten RWs. Same with Ghost and Provorov.

Now this may change the next couple years if Couts builds on last year, if Ghost and Provorov continue to improve, if Patrick steps up, if TK can put a full season together. With JVR they can roll two solid lines but still only have two top defensemen.

And of course, most playoffs teams tend to have average or better goaltending, not a bottom ten group.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Teams have won in the past plenty of times with poor coaches in pretty much every sport. The Flyers have enough talent to overcome Hakstols short comings

 

[Adam Warlock]

Basically 0% chance that happens, for two reasons.

1) the roster is too good and still improving. They’re going to win plenty, in spite of their idiot coach.

2) there’s nearly no chance Hextall would change coach mid-year, unless something unrealistically drastic happens. He’s too patient for that kind of panic move. If he starts the year as coach, he’ll finish it.


Unfortunately, the roster is going to save Hakstol from getting fired in the near future. Just like how they carried his stupidity last year... and they’re just going to keep improving, despite him. Hextalls top achievement, drafting, is going to cover up his worst failure, coaching.

If I had to bet, Hakstol will be gone when his contract is up if there’s no cup win or at least a really really close playoff run by then. Just as a change-it-up move.

I think this season is going to be judged by whether or not they win a playoff series. If they make the playoffs and get bounced in 6 games again...I think the media will start pushing the narrative that Hak hasnt won a playoff series in 4 years. I don't think that will get him fired...but will finally put him under the microscope of people other than on this forum.

I think youre right though, after his contract is up he'll be gone unless they make a serious playoff run in the next two years.

 

[Striiker]

I think this season is going to be judged by whether or not they win a playoff series. If they make the playoffs and get bounced in 6 games again...I think the media will start pushing the narrative that Hak hasnt won a playoff series in 4 years. I don't think that will get him fired...but will finally put him under the microscope of people other than on this forum.

I think youre right though, after his contract is up he'll be gone unless they make a serious playoff run in the next two years.

I definitely agree that he’s now going to be expected to produce results, but I don’t think the media will really have anything to do with it.

I’m sure Hextall already has his own expectations for this upcoming season (a series win should definitely be doable, considering how much talent we have).

Anyone not doing their job will be even more on the hot seat than before. Like, for example, a coach who gets carried to the playoffs and then, right before the playoffs starts, decided to mess up his lines.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It’s amazing Edmonton & the Islanders missed the playoffs, & Hakstol made it, given that their freewheeling offensive styles & physical talent are so vastly superior to Hakstol’s “archaic” focus on defensive responsibility & avoiding mistakes.