Prospect Info: Daniel Sprong Progress

[Andy99]

Hmmm. Regarding Sheary, not sure you are going to get an awesome player, but it could land you a decent pick. I still tend to think Simon is a depth guy at this point. Pure and simple as that. Not a top 9 guy IMO ...at least right now.

Yeah, didn’t mean that trading Sheary would bring back a better player one-for-one, just that if we got rid of his contract (even for a pick), we’d have more cap space to find a better player via FA or different trade...

 

[Peat]

Yeah, didn’t mean that trading Sheary would bring back a better player one-for-one, just that if we got rid of his contract (even for a pick), we’d have more cap space to find a better player via FA or different trade...

Get rid of both Sheary and Hunwick and I doubt you've got much space for upgrades once the RFAs are done being paid - and that cap space is probably best spent on the defence anyway imo.

 

[Andy99]

Better offensive skills? Aside from his soft shot, Simon has above average NHL skill with the puck on his stick. Good hands and a heck of a passer. Just needs to make passes more quickly, something he'll learn over time.

Sheary is a better offensive player imo....he finds openings and has better finishing skills...Simon is the better passer/playmaker....but you want someone on the wings who can net goals with our center depth, that’s most important....not saying Simon can’t develop more but he’s not quick enough consistently at doing anything to be a difference maker in this lineup, including forechecking, shot release, getting to lose pucks and making plays...

 

[Andy99]

Get rid of both Sheary and Hunwick and I doubt you've got much space for upgrades once the RFAs are done being paid - and that cap space is probably best spent on the defence anyway imo.

Well, that’s over $5 mil and if the cap goes up as predicted, that should be plenty to sign RFAs....we dont need to bring in JVR or Kane who will be making $6+ mil.....

 

[Peat]

Well, that’s over $5 mil and if the cap goes up as predicted, that should be plenty to sign RFAs....we dont need to bring in JVR or Kane who will be making $6+ mil.....

We'll see - depends how much Rutherford wants to lock players up long term. Hopefully our play-offs aids in keeping the prices down.

 

[billybudd]

Sheary is a better offensive player imo....he finds openings and has better finishing skills...Simon is the better passer/playmaker....but you want someone on the wings who can net goals with our center depth, that’s most important....not saying Simon can’t develop more but he’s not quick enough consistently at doing anything to be a difference maker in this lineup, including forechecking, shot release, getting to lose pucks and making plays...

I don't think Sheary's a good finisher. He's great at anticipating how the play will develop, though, which is why he gets so many golden looks, even when he's on a depth line.

Far as Simon, I don't think there's enough "there" there for him to be anything more than a stopgap. If you're small, you want footspeed. If you don't have footspeed, you want strength. If you have neither, better have a way of beating goaltenders. Simon doesn't have any of those things. He's just sort of average or below-average in every area, without being good at anything.

 

[Shockmaster]

I don't think Sheary's a good finisher. He's great at anticipating how the play will develop, though, which is why he gets so many golden looks, even when he's on a depth line.

Far as Simon, I don't think there's enough "there" there for him to be anything more than a stopgap. If you're small, you want footspeed. If you don't have footspeed, you want strength. If you have neither, better have a way of beating goaltenders. Simon doesn't have any of those things. He's just sort of average or below-average in every area, without being good at anything.

Simon had a couple of nice weeks back in January. Since then he's been at best useless, at worst a turnover machine.

 

[Andy99]

Simon had a couple of nice weeks back in January. Since then he's been at best useless, at worst a turnover machine.

I really don’t get the love the coaching staff and/or Recchi has for him...does he pics of Recchi in a compromising position or something.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

I hope next season is the season I have to "eat my hat" when it comes to Sprong.

 

[Joejosh999]

Yeah I can’t get over breaking up the only functioning line in order to put Simon up there w a broken thumb.
What were the nbrs after that for L1 ES goals? I know Jake had one in G4….beyond that, dunno but they certainly did not continue at their prior pace.
Really that’s my biggest issue w HCMS. Line combos. No explanation for some them.

I'm with Bourque on that one. No place on L1 for Simon.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I don't think Sheary's a good finisher. He's great at anticipating how the play will develop, though, which is why he gets so many golden looks, even when he's on a depth line.

Far as Simon, I don't think there's enough "there" there for him to be anything more than a stopgap. If you're small, you want footspeed. If you don't have footspeed, you want strength. If you have neither, better have a way of beating goaltenders. Simon doesn't have any of those things. He's just sort of average or below-average in every area, without being good at anything.

Simon is like a homeless man's Sedin.

 

[billybudd]

Simon is like a homeless man's Sedin.

I know I hit the like button already, but I just want to reiterate that I really like this analogy.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

They had a plan that Sprong would play in the AHL for the year. They would have evaluated that throughout the year. They didn’t just say he should be in the AHL all year and that’s it.

I don’t see how you could say his development was over in the AHL as he was getting scratched at different times. Some of it was to watch from the stands so some staff could explain the things he needs to be better at. That should be seen as a good thing.

JR saying he will be on the team next season doesn’t mean he will be. Sprong still has to do the right things in camp. Which he probably will and will play next season unless he’s traded.

I was referring to the Pens not icing Sprong in the playoffs. I should have been more specific. My point is that once WBS was eliminated, the "AHL is better for his development" angle doesn't fly because it's unavailable.

By then, he was clearly developed enough for JR to essentially say that an NHL spot is his to lose next fall, which means he's either leapfrogging current Pens forwards or JR is clearing out some dead wood to make room for him. And JR's working with the exact same knowledge of Sprong's performance that Sully was working with when he determined Sprong wasn't good enough to be subbed in for the dead wood.

That cognitive dissonance doesn't sit right with me. He's either looked good enough to play over these guys or he hasn't.

Whether you agree with the logic though is irrelevant, if you get what I mean (and in the nicest possible way).

Does thinking like that explain the two stances? Yes.

Is it possible/probable they were thinking like that? Imo, yes. There's no shortage of thinking like that in pro sports and its consistent with other decisions like sending Jooris back to WBS when he was outperforming every other 4th line plug at the end of the season.

Whether it was a mistake is besides the point of the question you asked - how can Rutherford be so sure if he wasn't judged good enough for the play offs. Tbh... it probably was a mistake, but one I sympathise with. Unit cohesion is probably as important, if not more so, than individual talent at that point. He didn't have that. There's a good chance he'd have done a better job than one of the many, many underperforming wingers despite that, but its not sure.

I'm sure they were thinking like that. I just contend that thinking that way is illogical, and one of the reasons why we're no longer playing. If a prospect is talented enough to make an underperforming player disposable in the fall, then he's talented enough to be subbed in for that same underperforming player in the playoffs.

Sheary struggled all year and his struggles continued throughout the playoffs. When a player's standard has been that low for that long and you have a better option in your back pocket, you either use that option or you're short-changing the team for the sake of familiarity.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I was referring to the Pens not icing Sprong in the playoffs. I should have been more specific. My point is that once WBS was eliminated, the "AHL is better for his development" angle doesn't fly because it's unavailable.

By then, he was clearly developed enough for JR to essentially say that an NHL spot is his to lose next fall, which means he's either leapfrogging current Pens forwards or JR is clearing out some dead wood to make room for him. And JR's working with the exact same knowledge of Sprong's performance that Sully was working with when he determined Sprong wasn't good enough to be subbed in for the dead wood.

That cognitive dissonance doesn't sit right with me. He's either looked good enough to play over these guys or he hasn't.

Gotcha. Whether Sprong should have come up probably has more to it than one of JR’s comments about next season. He basically has to be up or traded because of waivers next season. After that there will be different opinions and we will never know who’d be right.

Would it have been the difference of winning a cup or even going to the ECF? I’d give a 99% chance of no.

I look forward to seeing him next season. I actually like what I’ve heard about how they have handled him. Scratching him to sit him in the boxes to watch what they would like him to improve on is really encouraging to see. He’s just turned 21 and should be cheap for a while.

 

[Riptide]

I really don’t get the love the coaching staff and/or Recchi has for him...does he pics of Recchi in a compromising position or something.

It's because he has the ability to make some very smart plays offensively. It's just way to intermittent at this point, but if he can become more consistent and round out his defensive game, the kid could have a Jokinen like career. He obviously has a long way to go in that regard, but stylistically, I could see him developing along those lines if things go well.

Right now, I like him as a depth option who has a little skill. Would be nice if he could learn to PK however.

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Sprong
Rust - Brassard - Kessel
ZAR/Simon/X - Sheahan - Kuhnhackl/Simon

 

[Peat]

I'm sure they were thinking like that. I just contend that thinking that way is illogical, and one of the reasons why we're no longer playing. If a prospect is talented enough to make an underperforming player disposable in the fall, then he's talented enough to be subbed in for that same underperforming player in the playoffs.

Sheary struggled all year and his struggles continued throughout the playoffs. When a player's standard has been that low for that long and you have a better option in your back pocket, you either use that option or you're short-changing the team for the sake of familiarity.

I think you're underestimating the affects of unit cohesion but fair enough - lord knows there were enough who looked droppable. You say Sheary, but I'd have dropped all of Simon, Rust and Kessel before him - at least he looked busy and unlikely to contribute to a clanger.

 

[mpp9]

I was referring to the Pens not icing Sprong in the playoffs. I should have been more specific. My point is that once WBS was eliminated, the "AHL is better for his development" angle doesn't fly because it's unavailable.

By then, he was clearly developed enough for JR to essentially say that an NHL spot is his to lose next fall, which means he's either leapfrogging current Pens forwards or JR is clearing out some dead wood to make room for him. And JR's working with the exact same knowledge of Sprong's performance that Sully was working with when he determined Sprong wasn't good enough to be subbed in for the dead wood.

That cognitive dissonance doesn't sit right with me. He's either looked good enough to play over these guys or he hasn't.



I'm sure they were thinking like that. I just contend that thinking that way is illogical, and one of the reasons why we're no longer playing. If a prospect is talented enough to make an underperforming player disposable in the fall, then he's talented enough to be subbed in for that same underperforming player in the playoffs.

Sheary struggled all year and his struggles continued throughout the playoffs. When a player's standard has been that low for that long and you have a better option in your back pocket, you either use that option or you're short-changing the team for the sake of familiarity.

JR is probably looking to swap out some forward depth. Sprong getting a spot in training camp is a bit different than throwing him on Crosby’s wing against Washington.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think you're underestimating the affects of unit cohesion but fair enough - lord knows there were enough who looked droppable. You say Sheary, but I'd have dropped all of Simon, Rust and Kessel before him - at least he looked busy and unlikely to contribute to a clanger.

I dunno man. Sheary made some pretty damn egregious bad plays these playoffs haha. One in particular stands out.

 

[Peat]

I dunno man. Sheary made some pretty damn egregious bad plays these playoffs haha. One in particular stands out.

Must have been one of the nights I decided to sleep instead of watch then

 

[AverageJoeFan]

It's so difficult to tell how Sprong being in the lineup would have changed or not changed anything in the playoffs. If he buries some of the chances that Simon had the games might completely change. No one knows, but I think one thing for sure I like my chances on finishing(read scoring a goal) better with Sprong over Simon, Rust, or Sheary. And dare I say, Kessel...at least in this last iteration of playoffs.

 

[The Old Master]

It's so difficult to tell how Sprong being in the lineup would have changed or not changed anything in the playoffs. If he buries some of the chances that Simon had the games might completely change. No one knows, but I think one thing for sure I like my chances on finishing(read scoring a goal) better with Sprong over Simon, Rust, or Sheary. And dare I say, Kessel...at least in this last iteration of playoffs.

yep! and it seems from this end, it should of been an easy choice to make. and since they didn't, no one can prove otherwise.