EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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Player Discussion: Damon Severson
- Thread starter CBJWerenski8
- Start date
You have to give to get and Dobson would be our 2nd best defender by a long shot. Another #1 defenseman who can play a more defensive role than Z. I'd easily trade Chinkahov + for that, we're probably going to have to trade one of then eventually anyways, might as well be for a player who fills a need big time.
Im not as high on Gudbranson as others but stepping in today he'd be one of our best defensive dmen on the team. Miles better than Harris and Christiansen. He also would take some of the protective duties away from Olivier.
There are roles/better fits in the NHL for both Provorov and Severson. This team's biggest weakness is keeping the puck out of the net. Perhaps they go to a team that needs more offense from the dmen, both of them would be perfect. That said, Id much prefer better defensive dmen over them/to go along side them. Provorov is not going to take a discount to stay here, the money being asked wont be worth it for this franchise as they really need much better defensive dmen.
Looking at who could be had who are good defensive dmen, Pelech, Pulock, Lauzon are all probably acquirable for reasonable prices imo.
The next tier up would be someone like Weegar, Andersson, or Dobson. Top dmen who's price tag would be quite a bit more. I'd certainly kick the tires on all of them, we need good defensively sound dmen who can help Z carry the load every night.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
As far as healthy scratching Severson and whether or not at his worst he’s still better than JJ or Harris… sure, but do you want to send a message that a guy playing his worst is gonna hang around the lineup because we don’t have anyone better?
As far as Severson and Provorov, they’re indicative of how Jarmo went about his business over his last couple of years in the job, identifying one very specific trait he felt his roster lacked and going all in, without consideration for roster building as a whole. We were easily pinned in our own end, so he went for two veterans he felt could get the puck out, but still leaving us weak at KEEPING the puck out. Both players with desirable qualities, acquired using more assets than we’d prefer, ultimately making too-little difference.
As far as Severson and Provorov, they’re indicative of how Jarmo went about his business over his last couple of years in the job, identifying one very specific trait he felt his roster lacked and going all in, without consideration for roster building as a whole. We were easily pinned in our own end, so he went for two veterans he felt could get the puck out, but still leaving us weak at KEEPING the puck out. Both players with desirable qualities, acquired using more assets than we’d prefer, ultimately making too-little difference.
I think team effect (the offensive or defensive skew that comes from playing a certain style as a team) is getting underplayed here, and we're putting it all on individuals.
The Jackets are one goal away from the league lead in 5v5 goals for. Is this because we have one of the best forward groups in the league? No, we have some good forwards and some very good offensive D, but mostly it's because we trade chances. And likewise with goals against and our defense, our D-men aren't that bad at defending, we are an aggressive team that trades chances.
When the system changes it can have an interesting effect on our perceptions of a player. When we shifted from Torts to Lars, many people here started to question whether Gavrikov was actually good at defending. Now the perception is that he's one of the best defensive D in the league (I think rightly). When Weegar was traded away from Florida, the perception was that they had gotten rid of a mistake prone player who was emblematic of the free wheeling carefree hockey that they had playing for years. Now he's supposed to be a great defensive player. Adam Pelech's defensive rep has taken a big hit now that the Islanders system has degenerated. Dobson, I don't know what to think, there are many saying he's actually awful at defense.
Gudbranson in our system might not be able to keep up. It's a lot of movement away from the comfortable box on the ice that he policed under Vincent. The decision making burden is much higher now.
I just covered what I think about the reputations of some of these D - some of them would look quite different in our system. I also think that the idea that Provorov is above average offensively (or below average defensively) would quickly disappear on a lot of teams. He's much closer to being average at both ends.
Severson is more baked in as an aggressive player who makes mistakes, I don't see that changing for him. But rather than that being evidence of him being the kind of player we have less use for, I see our current system as the exact situation in which he would contribute the most. And a good chunk of our offense does flow from him, so I'm not sure I like this anti-Severson jeremiad.
The Jackets are one goal away from the league lead in 5v5 goals for. Is this because we have one of the best forward groups in the league? No, we have some good forwards and some very good offensive D, but mostly it's because we trade chances. And likewise with goals against and our defense, our D-men aren't that bad at defending, we are an aggressive team that trades chances.
When the system changes it can have an interesting effect on our perceptions of a player. When we shifted from Torts to Lars, many people here started to question whether Gavrikov was actually good at defending. Now the perception is that he's one of the best defensive D in the league (I think rightly). When Weegar was traded away from Florida, the perception was that they had gotten rid of a mistake prone player who was emblematic of the free wheeling carefree hockey that they had playing for years. Now he's supposed to be a great defensive player. Adam Pelech's defensive rep has taken a big hit now that the Islanders system has degenerated. Dobson, I don't know what to think, there are many saying he's actually awful at defense.
Gudbranson in our system might not be able to keep up. It's a lot of movement away from the comfortable box on the ice that he policed under Vincent. The decision making burden is much higher now.
I just covered what I think about the reputations of some of these D - some of them would look quite different in our system. I also think that the idea that Provorov is above average offensively (or below average defensively) would quickly disappear on a lot of teams. He's much closer to being average at both ends.
Severson is more baked in as an aggressive player who makes mistakes, I don't see that changing for him. But rather than that being evidence of him being the kind of player we have less use for, I see our current system as the exact situation in which he would contribute the most. And a good chunk of our offense does flow from him, so I'm not sure I like this anti-Severson jeremiad.
Would be very interested in Pulock, Weegar, Andersson or Dobson. Ironically the emergence of Dobson and desire for Islanders to extend him could actually make Pulock available (whereas normally I don't think he would be).
Cotton Eye Joe
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- Oct 8, 2023
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Jets are looking at adding a veteran D.
What would it take to acquire a guy like Provorov or Severson?
What would it take to acquire a guy like Provorov or Severson?
Cyclones Rock
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- Jun 12, 2008
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Provorov will take your 1st rounder and probably another decent asset.
Severson will take a bag of pucks and an equipment bag in fair condition if there is no retention.
How else can we judge the players we have? We can only judge what's in front of us.
I've never been high on Gudbranson but still think he'd offer something defensively to our 3rd pair compared to what we currently have. I also think he's become a lot less necessary with the emergence of Olivier. If he can't keep up, you reassess. Either way I think we are stuck with another Jarmo guy until his contract runs out.
If this is the best system for Severson I cant imagine him in a different system. He's not passing the eye test when it comes to being a puck moving dman if that is what you're referring to as "offense flowing through him." He is an actual disaster in his own zone with the puck on his stick. This isn't one game, he's been throwing pucks in front of his own net or aimlessly to no one up the wall, all year. In terms of Severson being a key player for this team, I'm really not buying it. I don't think many other fans are either for that matter. Waddell will need a different top 4 option next year as I doubt Evason is going to trust Damon in that same role. Right now he doesn't have better options but I'm sure Don sees the same thing. Essentially we have a luxury 3rd pairing dman who can step in the top 4 occasionally. That's not the worst thing in the world until the rest of the core needs paydays. Andersson, Dobson, Weegar or even Pulock would all be upgrades.
That's where we'd have to disagree. I can see him making mistakes and I can see him being a poor defender. But I don't see him being poor at creating offense, I see him as actually pretty good at it. I see him out there weaving with our 5 4th liners and doing a lot to make them look dangerous.
Xoggz22
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billingtons ghost
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- Nov 29, 2010
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Long time Devils fan here. Welcome to the period of Severson disillusionment, where adv stats guys claim he's doing just fine, he looks good making reasonably decent defensive plays for 95% for every game and then has a catastrophic, detached controller meltdown and costs you one game in ten. Our time with that lasted about six years.
The known cure is only play him on the bottom pair in sheltered minutes and with a stay at home defenseman.
I'm sadly serious.
Think it's fun now? Wait until the games mean something. Then the meltdowns are epic.
The known cure is only play him on the bottom pair in sheltered minutes and with a stay at home defenseman.
I'm sadly serious.
Think it's fun now? Wait until the games mean something. Then the meltdowns are epic.
Having Severson run up the score playing 19 sheltered minutes a night is something I look forward to. Leaving aside contracts, that's a well slotted player that you can win with. Unfortunately he's got a bad contract and that will be all many here ever want to talk about, as if we can do something about it (we can't).
billingtons ghost
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That's pretty much where we were. He was a goalie killer as a top or second pair. When Graves/Marino/siegenthaler/Hamilton pushed him to #5 we were a good 100pt team. It was clear that he was gonna get paid, so ... We moved on.
For full context, Severson played 19:57 per game that year, when the Devils were very good, and they did very well with him on the ice. I think people might be imagining something else calling him a #5 D. I know what you mean though, his usage had to be carefully managed.
billingtons ghost
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Yeah, I think it was more matchup based. He was clearly third pair, but all of our pairs were solid so they didn't cut minutes. He can be a very effective defenseman if managed, but no one wants that for 6.25m. To be perfectly fair: Graves/Marino were lightning in a bottle and took all of the tough assignments, and that really benefitted Hamilton/Siegs pairing too, who were exposed as a #1 pair the next year.
Cowumbus
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Doggy
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- Oct 11, 2011
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Don and Dean playing 4D chess here?Maybe the healthy scratches are an incentive to waive it
Iron Balls McGinty
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Beautiful parting gift from Jarmo's desperation mode.
