Post-Game Talk: Dallas wins and my schwartz watch quit again...

Drivesaitl

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Late to the party, and not sure if these have been stated.

Henrique had an awful, awful, awful game. Bad route to his assignment on lost faceoff on PP goal against (I couldn't believe it even after watching replay, such a basic and silly mistake). Lost his man (the scorer) on another play out of the corner. Turned the puck over every time he touched it. Very far cry from his usual dependable but unspectacular play.

Again we generated a ton of looks but we have 12 (!!!) goals in 6 games. That is unsustainable given the amount of chances we normally create. I mean, Hyman has had a ton of great looks and probably has 5-6 goals by now if he's finishing like last year. He must feel like it will never go in for him again at this point. I think we will come around but our poise/finish/puck luck around the net has been rough so far. I guess that is a long-winded way of saying I think we are still a very good team and it's coming. I hope.
Agreed Henrique had a bad game. Agreed Hyman goals will come but I'm as concerned that he has zero pts. He's not cashing or making plays. Something a bit off.

that Skinner isn't good enough? totally needed a graph to illustrate that point :sarcasm:
The point was that our goaltending isn't good enough. When a variable is found to be significantly off graph its quite likely its vastly impacting other data. Skewing data even, or in this case skewing or skewering the Oilers. Take your pick.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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The point was that our goaltending isn't good enough. When a variable is found to be significantly off graph its quite likely its vastly impacting other data. Skewing data even, or in this case skewing or skewering the Oilers. Take your pick.
weird, cause the Avs awful goaltending hasn't effected the big 3 in Colorado in producing

just excuses
 

Drivesaitl

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weird, cause the Avs awful goaltending hasn't effected the big 3 in Colorado in producing

just excuses
Its certainly impacted the AV's in the standings. Kind of my point.

Neither the AV's or Oilers can survive .870 goaltending. No team does.
But this discussion illustrates people difficulty in establishing variables of significance. McDrais EV production is so close to normal that no significant difference exists.

On the other hand the Oilers goaltending is so far off the chart its effectively off the chart. The two data pts, Colorado and OIlers goaltending is not even within the normal curve distribution, its far outside of it. In another orbit lol.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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Its certainly impacted the AV's in the standings. Kind of my point.

Neither the AV's or Oilers can survive .870 goaltending. No team does.
but the Oilers aren't scoring...they're aren't losing 7-6 games right now where Skinner can't even make a save

they've scored: 0, 2, 1, 4, 4 (1EN), and 1 in six games...Patrick Roy wouldn't win many games when the offense doesn't do its job
 

Drivesaitl

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And if you want to talk about depth, the Avalanche have all of zero of it at the moment.

The excuses keep getting trotted out for this group, and every single one of them is BS.
Wait a sec. Cale Makar is leading the AVS in pts. Wheres that in the Oilers lineup>?

A guy like Ross Colton has scored 6 goals. Wheres that in the Oilers depth. All our depth players combined don't have 6 goals.

Casey Middlestadt has 4 goals. Wheres that in our depth?


Fact of the matter is Mackinnon has 2 goals. 1 more than McD and one less than Drai.

Seems to me as well the AV's are well rested being a first round exit. AV's were golfing for 6weeks while the Oilers were still playing.
 

Drivesaitl

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but the Oilers aren't scoring...they're aren't losing 7-6 games right now where Skinner can't even make a save

they've scored: 0, 2, 1, 4, 4 (1EN), and 1 in six games...Patrick Roy wouldn't win many games when the offense doesn't do its job
Goaltending influences goals scored. It is connected. To wit Stars don't get goals on counter if they aren't in the game in the first place ONLY due to outstanding goaltending. With bad goaltending Stars don't get much of anything. These are the type of game effects caused or influenced by goaltending. Stars scored three of their goals while Oilers were chasing the game.

But my case was more that goaltending influences wins and losses, obviously. Teams like the Kings won cups scoring around 2 goals a night.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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Goaltending influences goals scored. It is connected. To wit Stars don't get goals on counter if they aren't in the game in the first place ONLY due to outstanding goaltending. With bad goaltending Stars don't get much of anything. These are the type of game effects caused or influenced by goaltending. Stars scored two of their goals while Oilers were chasing the game.

But my case was more that goaltending influences wins and losses, obviously. Teams like the Kings won cups scoring around 2 goals a night.
give me a break...the PP is a joke right now and it it's has nothing to do with goaltending
 

K1984

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Wait a sec. Cale Makar is leading the AVS in pts. Wheres that in the Oilers lineup>?

A guy like Ross Colton has scored 6 goals. Wheres that in the Oilers depth. All our depth players combined don't have 6 goals.

Casey Middlestadt has 4 goals. Wheres that in our depth?


Fact of the matter is Mackinnon has 2 goals. 1 more than McD and one less than Drai.

Seems to me as well the AV's are well rested being a first round exit. AV's were golfing for 6weeks while the Oilers were still playing.

None of those are depth players, all of those are top line/top 6 players (I’ll pre-empt the Colton isn’t a top line player! Response with the fact he’s been on the top line this year). I’m confused which players qualify as depth anymore. Point is the excuses that are made about the Oilers star production (depth! Bad goalie! Regular season hard to get up for!) apply to an equal or greater degree for the Avalanche but their producers still produce.

Our bottom 6 has out scored the top 6, the Avalanche’s have not. Take out the two garbage time goals Leon has scored so far, and the 5some of McDavid, Leon, Hyman, Bouchard have combined for 3 total goals that actually have any relevance this year. There is no excuse for that no matter how the narrative is spun.
 
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Drivesaitl

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None of those are depth players, all of those are top line/top 6 players (I’ll pre-empt the Colton isn’t a top line player! Response with the fact he’s been on the top line this year). I’m confused which players qualify as depth anymore. Point is the excuses that are made about the Oilers star production (depth! Bad goalie! Regular season hard to get up for!) apply to an equal or greater degree for the Avalanche but their producers still produce.

Our bottom 6 has out scored the top 6, the Avalanche’s have not. Take out the two garbage time goals Leon has scored so far, and the 5some of McDavid, Leon, Hyman, Bouchard have combined for 3 total goals that actually have any relevance this year. There is no excuse for that no matter how the narrative is spun.
Our bottom six has not outscored our topsix. Also considering what line the players are on when the goals are scored. Its lol a tie. which it shouldn't be, I agree. our two superstars have been quieter than normal. I'm not overly worried about it.

tbh I didn't know who Ross Colton was before going G/G this season. Again we have nothing like that in our lineup of a player drastically overachieving out of pretty much nowhere. Kid was a 4th round pick that took forever just to make NHL.

So much acrimony however is directed at McDrai (not saying you) but really Nuge, Hyman Arvid are virgins this year. Thats about 16M in topsix that haven't scored. 2 of these players don't even have a point and are all seeing PP time.

Skinner is getting paid 12M, as much as McDavid so I expect him to be doing something. At least he's brought his A game in a few of the games.
 

K1984

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Our bottom six has not outscored our topsix. Also considering what line the players are on when the goals are scored. Its lol a tie. which it shouldn't be, I agree. our two superstars have been quieter than normal. I'm not overly worried about it.

tbh I didn't know who Ross Colton was before going G/G this season. Again we have nothing like that in our lineup of a player drastically overachieving out of pretty much nowhere. Kid was a 4th round pick that took forever just to make NHL.

So much acrimony however is directed at McDrai (not saying you) but really Nuge, Hyman Arvid are virgins this year. Thats about 16M in topsix that haven't scored. 2 of these players don't even have a point and are all seeing PP time.

Skinner is getting paid 12M, as much as McDavid so I expect him to be doing something. At least he's brought his A game in a few of the games.

Ross Colton is an established NHL player that was a contributor on Stanley Cup Championship teams, and would likely objectively be recognized as a Top 6 talent by a lot of teams. He's also riding shotgun to McKinnon and Rantanen. 6 goals in 6 games is more than expected, but you think he's producing that if McKinnon and Rantanen were playing like dogs on his line? Or in an alternate universe, you think any player (short of being a bonafide star themselves) could produce 6 goals in 6 games playing next to McDavid and Draisaitl with the way they've played this year?

If McDavid and Draisaitl were playing up to their standards while RNH and Hyman in particular were still playing like shit then you would have a point. Similar to the Avalanche, we need McDavid and Drai to play well to pull the best performance out of their line mates. McKinnon and Rantanten have 11 points each, while McDavid and Draisaitl can't seem to get out of their own way. There's the difference.
 
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Whyme

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I haven't written here for a long time, but I keep reading your posts almost every day. I've watched Skinner with special interest and as many others I think he has some clear problems in his game. He can look like a solid goalie for pretty long whiles in a game, but then he misplaces himself or makes himself very small. The third problem is his ability to move sidewards.

I watched the game against Dallas and the same things happened again. For a long while looked like a legit goalie playing a pretty strong game, but then a shot that possibly wasn't his fault, but it was catchable. Then gets too much to the side and moves back awkwardly, which leaves half of the goal open. Finally gets on his knees too early and leaves the upper corners completely uncovered. In some earlier games he's had some terrible position leading to goals against, I even took a screenshot of one but never sent it here.

I do wonder if another goalie coach could help with these, but I also think at this stage of his career also Skinner himself should've done more about these issues. It's such a shame the Oilers have failed to fix this crucial position for some many years.

Other than this I think everything is definitely possible, but I feel a bit less optimistic than for the two previous years.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Ross Colton is an established NHL player that was a contributor on Stanley Cup Championship teams, and would likely objectively be recognized as a Top 6 talent by a lot of teams. He's also riding shotgun to McKinnon and Rantanen. 6 goals in 6 games is more than expected, but you think he's producing that if McKinnon and Rantanen were playing like dogs on his line? Or in an alternate universe, you think any player (short of being a bonafide star themselves) could produce 6 goals in 6 games playing next to McDavid and Draisaitl with the way they've played this year?

If McDavid and Draisaitl were playing up to their standards while RNH and Hyman in particular were still playing like shit then you would have a point. Similar to the Avalanche, we need McDavid and Drai to play well to pull the best performance out of their line mates. McKinnon and Rantanten have 11 points each, while McDavid and Draisaitl can't seem to get out of their own way. There's the difference.
Ross Colton has 70 career goals. He's hit 20 once. He's about as topsix as Warren Foegele. Its an unexpected scoring bump from him in Colorado.

I haven't watched Colton much at all because I hate Tampa and don't view much EC play.

Its tough for stars to play up to their standards all the time. Every star as others have mentioned have off seasons. Hopefully this year isn't one. Too early anyway. Its rare, exceedingly, that Rantanen would have more pts than McD or Drai. I don't for a moment think the season finishes that way.
 

K1984

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Ross Colton has 70 career goals. He's hit 20 once. He's about as topsix as Warren Foegele. Its an unexpected scoring bump from him in Colorado.

I haven't watched Colton much at all because I hate Tampa and don't view much EC play.

Its tough for stars to play up to their standards all the time. Every star as others have mentioned have off seasons. Hopefully this year isn't one. Too early anyway. Its rare, exceedingly, that Rantanen would have more pts than McD or Drai. I don't for a moment think the season finishes that way.

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to disparage Ross Colton when you have no idea who he is.

Point still remains that McKinnon, Rantenen and Makar are still finding a way to do their thing and drive production. This is despite having a near identical set of excuses that the Oilers group is having made for them by folks that can't stand to identify the simple reality that McDavid and Draisaitl's performance to start the season is unacceptable, and a large reason we are where we are.
 

guymez

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Yeah totally the big dogs fault. Oop, I found this graph

View attachment 919465

Huh. Weird. Who could have guessed this?

Anyway, I wonder why we lost to Dallas? We were playing so well... Must be McDavid and Draisaitl, all them.

I wonder why our goal differential is so bad too. Must just be all McDavid and Draisaitl, too.
I know...right?

Scoring a team total of 12 goals in 6 games (worst in the NHL) clearly has nothing what so ever to do with the top players.
This losing thing is all so weird.

Am I doin it right?
 

Drivesaitl

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I don't think it makes a lot of sense to disparage Ross Colton when you have no idea who he is.

Point still remains that McKinnon, Rantenen and Makar are still finding a way to do their thing and drive production. This is despite having a near identical set of excuses that the Oilers group is having made for them by folks that can't stand to identify the simple reality that McDavid and Draisaitl's performance to start the season is unacceptable, and a large reason we are where we are.
Wasn't dissing the player. Just not much of a career statline and he's a 4th round pick. Even Foegele had these moments.

Yeah 6 games in Rantenen etal are more productive. probably has something to do with a best in world quality generational D driving things there. Is there really any significance to microexamine McDrai production 6 games in? no. The discussion originated around the Oilers goaltending struggle that is ongoing. That is not at all a new thing.

McD or Drai could end up with 4pts in their very next game and be right around it. Oilers aren't going to get first, I know you wanted that, Unrealistic with the roster.
 
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K1984

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Wasn't dissing the player. Just not much of a career statline and he's a 4th round pick. Even Foegele had these moments.

Yeah 6 games in Rantenen etal are more productive. probably has something to do with a best in world quality generational D driving things there. Is there really any significance to microexamine McDrai production 6 games in? no. The discussion originated around the Oilers goaltending struggle that is ongoing. That is not at all a new thing.

McD or Drai could end up with 4pts in their very next game and be right around it. Oilers aren't going to get first, I know you wanted that, Unrealistic with the roster.

Very realistic with the roster if the key players decided to show up on time, but whatever.

This group is set in stone as one that won’t ever, under any circumstances, make life easy on themselves even when they have the power to. If they find a way to win the Cup, it will be on the back of an up and down circus through the season and playoff for it to happen.

This group isn’t normal for no reason other than mental.
 

Senor Catface

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K1984

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Interesting, but I can just hear his intonation reading that article.

That article smells like a fluff piece cooked up by his agent or someone similar to get him in the media after an off season of not a lot of interest.

There are probably a lot of hockey managers that listen to him pontificate and say “no thanks,” even if his coaching ability checks the boxes. You have to earn that level of ego, but Woodcroft acted like he had it Day 1.
 

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