Proposal: Dallas Stars/New York Rangers

[Shootertooter]

The Stars don't have to honor the NMC which means they could leave him unprotected. This is risky but potentially a great way to get rid of Kari.

I was going to ask, if Staal agreed to waive his NMC to go to Dallas, the NMC is no longer valid after that move....correct?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I was going to ask, if Staal agreed to waive his NMC to go to Dallas, the NMC is no longer valid after that move....correct?

Dallas can choose to void his NMC if he were to be traded. Nashville just did this with Subban. People seem to forget that fact when bringing up Staal/Expansion.

As long as the team receiving him doesn't honor his NMC, he can be exposed.

 

[Dallas1960]

Marc Staal

No thank you, bad contract and his performance of late speaks poorly to his value. Also, we are jammed up , at defense! Please before you make a proposal do some research, we have Oduya and Hamhius on the left side with Lindell chomping at the bit to get ice time. So unless we are talking about a legitimate #1 or 2 and under 25 left handed defenseman there is no interest here in Dallas nor would you be interested in trading such a player!

 

[TrillMike]

Dallas doesn't touch that contract.

 

[mikeyp24]

Dallas can choose to void his NMC if he were to be traded. Nashville just did this with Subban. People seem to forget that fact when bringing up Staal/Expansion.

As long as the team receiving him doesn't honor his NMC, he can be exposed.

This is not true. Subban got traded before his NMC kicked in so it was able to be voided. Once it kicks in nonteam can void it only the player can waive or if the contract states that the NMC ends in... for example... year 3 of a 5 year deal. Meaning the first 3 years you are.stuck but after.that you are.clear.

 

[LordNeverLose]

This is not true. Subban got traded before his NMC kicked in so it was able to be voided. Once it kicks in nonteam can void it only the player can waive or if the contract states that the NMC ends in... for example... year 3 of a 5 year deal. Meaning the first 3 years you are.stuck but after.that you are.clear.

I think you're right about Subban, but I thought I read that if a team agrees to waive to be traded once, the team he's traded to can choose to not honor the NMC. However, he might not agree to waive in the 1st place if the team he's going to doesn't offer to honor his NMC.

 

[NateB19]

No thank you, bad contract and his performance of late speaks poorly to his value. Also, we are jammed up , at defense! Please before you make a proposal do some research, we have Oduya and Hamhius on the left side with Lindell chomping at the bit to get ice time. So unless we are talking about a legitimate #1 or 2 and under 25 left handed defenseman there is no interest here in Dallas nor would you be interested in trading such a player!

Can you look at the OP and read it again? I said exactly what you said, thanks! Congrats!

 

[aufheben]

What?

Of course he has negative value. He has the 22nd highest defenseman cap hit, is he a #1? No. Is he a middle of the pack #2? No, and that player makes about 1m less. Is he the best #3 in the NHL? No, and that player makes about 1.5m less. Maybe he is the best #4, in which case he is overpaid by 2.2m and he is way past the age where we can hope players get better. The NMC is a major factor as well.

Nobody is going to offer anything for him, he's one of the 10 clearest cases of negative value contracts in the NHL.

So he's a Top-4 defenseman but has negative value? I know Staal's contract is bad but that doesn't make any sense. It's not like he's so bad that the Rangers are going to trade him for a 5th round pick or something.

 

[Mr Misty]

So he's a Top-4 defenseman but has negative value? I know Staal's contract is bad but that doesn't make any sense. It's not like he's so bad that the Rangers are going to trade him for a 5th round pick or something.

This shouldn't be hard for you to parse, it isn't the riddle of the Sphinx or something. Is Clarkson a sub-NHL player? No, he's a guy who scored 30 goals once and got signed for too many years and too much money. Players can have negative value even if they are good if their contract is sufficiently bad. In this case we don't have to worry about the "even if they are good" part because he's a #4 at best that's paid like a #1 and signed for 5 more years.

The Rangers aren't going to trade him for a 5th because nobody would offer them a 5th for him.

 

[LordNeverLose]

So he's a Top-4 defenseman but has negative value? I know Staal's contract is bad but that doesn't make any sense. It's not like he's so bad that the Rangers are going to trade him for a 5th round pick or something.

Dustin Brown is an average 3rd liner with incredible leadership and experience, yet I guarantee you 100% of LA fans will admit he has immense negative value.

Contracts aren't some minor footnote to a player's value. Just look at the Bickel/TT trade as an example of how much NHL GMs value cap space.

 

[aufheben]

This shouldn't be hard for you to parse, it isn't the riddle of the Sphinx or something. Is Clarkson a sub-NHL player? No, he's a guy who scored 30 goals once and got signed for too many years and too much money. Players can have negative value even if they are good if their contract is sufficiently bad. In this case we don't have to worry about the "even if they are good" part because he's a #4 at best that's paid like a #1 and signed for 5 more years.

The Rangers aren't going to trade him for a 5th because nobody would offer them a 5th for him.

No, you wouldn't. Girardi might be a different story however.

God no.

No it's a steal for us.

 

[Mr Misty]

No, you wouldn't. Girardi might be a different story however.

No it's a steal for us.

Nor would any one else. Nobody wants to protect a 3rd pair defenseman from the expansion draft. We've seen a half dozen examples of teams paying serious assets to move much less salary than Staal in the past 2 seasons.

 

[NateB19]

This shouldn't be hard for you to parse, it isn't the riddle of the Sphinx or something. Is Clarkson a sub-NHL player? No, he's a guy who scored 30 goals once and got signed for too many years and too much money. Players can have negative value even if they are good if their contract is sufficiently bad. In this case we don't have to worry about the "even if they are good" part because he's a #4 at best that's paid like a #1 and signed for 5 more years.

The Rangers aren't going to trade him for a 5th because nobody would offer them a 5th for him.

Marc Staal is NOT paid like a #1 defenseman, not many players are paid like a number 1 defenseman. Subban, Weber, Doughty, etc. are getting paid like #1 defensemen because they are. There's a handful of #1 defensemen in the NHL. McDonagh, Faulk, etc. are #2 defensemen. It's fair to say Staal is paid like a #2-3 defensemen but to say a #1 is asinine. Subban, Weber and Doughty all make above or exactly 7 million. Staal is not worth his contract but he's still a #4 defensemen. The Rangers would prefer to trade him because Skjei is better. He could be a #4 defenseman on teams in the NHL. He does NOT have negative value. You simply don't understand the situation and I doubt you watched much Rangers hockey this past year to even have a valid opinion.
On Clarkson, he isn't an NHL caliber player. He scored 30 goals once, cool. His next highest total is 17. He's had 30 points in the last 3 seasons. He's missed 102 games. Staal has 49 points. He's only missed 17 games. I mean, Christ, his only bad season was last year and the ending of it wasn't bad. His value is not negative.

 

[NateB19]

Marc Staal is NOT paid like a #1 defenseman, not many players are paid like a number 1 defenseman. Subban, Weber, Doughty, etc. are getting paid like #1 defensemen because they are. There's a handful of #1 defensemen in the NHL. McDonagh, Faulk, etc. are #2 defensemen. It's fair to say Staal is paid like a #2-3 defensemen but to say a #1 is asinine. Subban, Weber and Doughty all make above or exactly 7 million. Staal is not worth his contract but he's still a #4 defensemen. The Rangers would prefer to trade him because Skjei is better. He could be a #4 defenseman on teams in the NHL. He does NOT have negative value. You simply don't understand the situation and I doubt you watched much Rangers hockey this past year to even have a valid opinion.
On Clarkson, he isn't an NHL caliber player. He scored 30 goals once, cool. His next highest total is 17. He's had 30 points in the last 3 seasons. He's missed 102 games. Staal has 49 points. He's only missed 17 games. I mean, Christ, his only bad season was last year and the ending of it wasn't bad. His value is not negative.

Also, Staal's possession #s were similar to 2010 in 2015 and 2014.

 

[hairylikebear]

The Stars don't have to honor the NMC which means they could leave him unprotected. This is risky but potentially a great way to get rid of Kari.

Yeah I'm wrong, here's the CBA on the matter:

11.8 Individually Negotiated Limitations on Player Movement.
(a) The SPC of any Player who is a Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agent under Article
10.1(a) may contain a no-Trade or a no-move clause. SPCs containing a no-Trade or a no-move
clause may be entered into prior to the time that the Player is a Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agent
so long as the SPC containing the no-Trade or no-move clause extends through and does not
become effective until the time that the Player qualifies for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency.
If the Player is Traded or claimed on Waivers prior to the no-Trade or no-move clause taking
effect, the clause does not bind the acquiring Club. An acquiring Club may agree to continue to
be bound by the no-Trade or no-move clause, which agreement shall be evidenced in writing to
the Player, Central Registry and the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof.

 

[Mr Misty]

Marc Staal is NOT paid like a #1 defenseman, not many players are paid like a number 1 defenseman. Subban, Weber, Doughty, etc. are getting paid like #1 defensemen because they are. There's a handful of #1 defensemen in the NHL. McDonagh, Faulk, etc. are #2 defensemen. It's fair to say Staal is paid like a #2-3 defensemen but to say a #1 is asinine. Subban, Weber and Doughty all make above or exactly 7 million. Staal is not worth his contract but he's still a #4 defensemen. The Rangers would prefer to trade him because Skjei is better. He could be a #4 defenseman on teams in the NHL. He does NOT have negative value. You simply don't understand the situation and I doubt you watched much Rangers hockey this past year to even have a valid opinion.
On Clarkson, he isn't an NHL caliber player. He scored 30 goals once, cool. His next highest total is 17. He's had 30 points in the last 3 seasons. He's missed 102 games. Staal has 49 points. He's only missed 17 games. I mean, Christ, his only bad season was last year and the ending of it wasn't bad. His value is not negative.

He has the 23rd highest cap hit for defensemen. If there are 30 teams, then he is paid like a #1. I can't tell if this thread is an elaborate joke, how could a person be so sure he wasn't being paid like a #1 and say so multiple times but offer zero evidence. You even offer 2 examples of players who aren't #1s according to you, but both of these players make less than Staal. He isn't paid like a #1, that's asinine, but he does make more than these #2s. It doesn't have any internal consistency to speak of.

And this bolded is the clincher. I didn't go past a #4 and now two people have snatched my arm off in their haste to put that label on him. Now "A #4 defenseman, raves Mr Misty" is going to be the pull quote on the poster for Marc Staal: The Movie. Back to your great quotes: "He could be a #4 defenseman on teams in the NHL," talk about faint praise for a guy with a 6 year contract at a 5.7m cap hit. Immediately followed by "He does NOT have negative value." Cap hit 105, aka the middle of the pack #4, is 2.833m, which is less than half of what Staal makes. The only way to have more cognitive dissonance would be to change the period to a comma, but it's still enough to make my head spin.

The facts are the facts. He makes almost 3m too much. He's signed for 5 more years. He has a NMC and there's an expansion draft next year. No team wants a part of that.

 

[Doriva]

To the people saying he's overpaid, do they not realise that the OP has accounted for this and is retaining down to $4m ?

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

If Datysuks contract can be moved than anything is possible, however Dallas is not that team. NYR will likely hold Staal and DG another year for bounce back potential and to burn another year off their contracts. DG was overplayed last year on a cracked knee cap and Staal hasn't had a normal offseason in several years and is still adjusting to previous injuries. That being said, they aren't the players they were 3 years ago and are overpaid but next year will establish the real value.

Only possible deal I see is Staal heavily retained + Hayes + sweetener for Nuke and I doubt Dallas fans will sign on for that.

 

[Mr Misty]

To the people saying he's overpaid, do they not realise that the OP has accounted for this and is retaining down to $4m ?

4m is too much to pay for a #4. If he's even a #4. And he's signed for 5 seasons.

If Datysuks contract can be moved than anything is possible, however Dallas is not that team. NYR will likely hold Staal and DG another year for bounce back potential and to burn another year off their contracts. DG was overplayed last year on a cracked knee cap and Staal hasn't had a normal offseason in several years and is still adjusting to previous injuries. That being said, they aren't the players they were 3 years ago and are overpaid but next year will establish the real value.

Only possible deal I see is Staal heavily retained + Hayes + sweetener for Nuke and I doubt Dallas fans will sign on for that.

Staal's contract is nothing like Datsyuk's, it's bananas to say that trade means anything is possible.

 

[WhatWhat]

If Datysuks contract can be moved than anything is possible, however Dallas is not that team. NYR will likely hold Staal and DG another year for bounce back potential and to burn another year off their contracts. DG was overplayed last year on a cracked knee cap and Staal hasn't had a normal offseason in several years and is still adjusting to previous injuries. That being said, they aren't the players they were 3 years ago and are overpaid but next year will establish the real value.

Only possible deal I see is Staal heavily retained + Hayes + sweetener for Nuke and I doubt Dallas fans will sign on for that.

There is quite literally not a single proposal you can make with Staal that Dallas would take(that you would also find remotely reasonable). His NMC kills us

 

[Skobel24]

If Datysuks contract can be moved than anything is possible, however Dallas is not that team. NYR will likely hold Staal and DG another year for bounce back potential and to burn another year off their contracts. DG was overplayed last year on a cracked knee cap and Staal hasn't had a normal offseason in several years and is still adjusting to previous injuries. That being said, they aren't the players they were 3 years ago and are overpaid but next year will establish the real value.

Only possible deal I see is Staal heavily retained + Hayes + sweetener for Nuke and I doubt Dallas fans will sign on for that.

Huge difference. Arizona was paid to take on that caphit, but they don't need to pay Datsyuk his salary. It basically means a lower cap floor for Arizona. It's why they have Pronger as well.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Lol this basically makes lehtonen a $7.8 mil goaltender for NY, playing behind an $8.5 mil goaltender

Genius

 

[aufheben]

Lol this basically makes lehtonen a $7.8 mil goaltender for NY, playing behind an $8.5 mil goaltender

Genius

I was just thinking the Rangers could really use a $5.9M backup.

 

[Crease]

Dallas would have no choice but to honor Staal's NMC since the right has already vested. Unless Staal agrees to waive it forever (though I don't know any example of that).

Only when the right has not vested yet does the acquiring team have the choice whether to honor it.

 

[LordNeverLose]

To the people saying he's overpaid, do they not realise that the OP has accounted for this and is retaining down to $4m ?

Considering his term and his NMC, I think you'd have to retain down to about $1 million for him to have non-negative value. And that isn't possible under the CBA.