Proposal: (DAL-COL): Barrie+4th Round Pick for 2017 3OA+2nd Round Pick

[Avs71]

Let me preface this by saying, I don't really like Barrie a whole lot. I just think he is part of a bigger problem with the Avs, which is a lack of depth, and a lack of guys brought in for proper roles. I would like to see him traded so the Avs core is shaken up with moves of Duchene/Barrie for a new defenceman/forward.

That said, I think people are starting to get a little overzealous in just how worthless they think Avs players are.

This is the last three seasons combined, for defenceman scoring. That's Tyson Barrie with 7 less points than Klingberg, in 10 more games. Ranked #13 of all defencemen. Now I know Klingberg is a better player than Barrie, but I'm sure Stars fans would laugh at an offer of the 4th overall+32nd overall+Chris Bigras for Klingberg (if you don't then sign me up).

As for the question of would I trade the 4th overall for Tyson Barrie? Well, no. We know what the Avs look like with a high scoring defenceman on the 2nd pairing. If they didn't have Barrie, just came off this season, and there was a 25 year old Kevin Shattenkirk or Keith Yandle available, yeah I'd seriously look at making that trade.

You don't trade for Tyson Barrie looking for him to save your defensive group. You trade for him because you have a need for scoring from the back end. Look at the other guys around him on the list, and I think the picture becomes pretty clear that you're not going to be able to add a dynamic scorer from the back end, unless he has some warts to his game. Everyone else is basically a franchise defenceman.

I can see why the Stars would say no, even to this straight up, but you're clueless if you are saying Tyson Barrie isn't worth a top-10 pick, especially in this draft.

 

[Seachd]

I'll agree with others and say regardless of Dallas's needs, I don't see how Barrie is worth nearly that much.

 

[WhatWhat]

In this draft? Yeah, no.

God this story line is blown way out of proportion. The daft isn't nearly that bad there is just no McDavid and no Barrie isn't worth the 3rd overall pick

 

[WhatWhat]

While that is a possibility, there's still the risk that the pick could be a bust. That factors into the value of the trade. Besides Dallas doesn't have the time to develop a defenceman from this draft until he's better than Barrie.

We do... this an other story blow out of proportion. The Stars aren't folding when Benn and Seguin retire. It's entirely possible to keep drafting while we have them so the team can stay decent when they are gone

 

[WhatWhat]

Let me preface this by saying, I don't really like Barrie a whole lot. I just think he is part of a bigger problem with the Avs, which is a lack of depth, and a lack of guys brought in for proper roles. I would like to see him traded so the Avs core is shaken up with moves of Duchene/Barrie for a new defenceman/forward.

That said, I think people are starting to get a little overzealous in just how worthless they think Avs players are.

This is the last three seasons combined, for defenceman scoring. That's Tyson Barrie with 7 less points than Klingberg, in 10 more games. Ranked #13 of all defencemen. Now I know Klingberg is a better player than Barrie, but I'm sure Stars fans would laugh at an offer of the 4th overall+32nd overall+Chris Bigras for Klingberg (if you don't then sign me up).

As for the question of would I trade the 4th overall for Tyson Barrie? Well, no. We know what the Avs look like with a high scoring defenceman on the 2nd pairing. If they didn't have Barrie, just came off this season, and there was a 25 year old Kevin Shattenkirk or Keith Yandle available, yeah I'd seriously look at making that trade.

You don't trade for Tyson Barrie looking for him to save your defensive group. You trade for him because you have a need for scoring from the back end. Look at the other guys around him on the list, and I think the picture becomes pretty clear that you're not going to be able to add a dynamic scorer from the back end, unless he has some warts to his game. Everyone else is basically a franchise defenceman.

I can see why the Stars would say no, even to this straight up, but you're clueless if you are saying Tyson Barrie isn't worth a top-10 pick, especially in this draft.

If Klingberg was a but older, was paid 25% more and we were entering a rebuild I would strongly consider that

 

[strictlyrandy]

Barrie is RD and Dallas needs LD period, Pretty sure Dallas can do better for the #3 pick then Barrie.

They can. It'll probably be for Brodin.

 

[Avs44]

If you have a problem with 49 being less than 53 take that up with the people who invented math. I stated a 100% verified fact and yet you are still finding a way to dispute it.

2014-2015
53 points

2015-2016
49 points

2016-2017
38 points

49 is less than 53, and 38 is less than 49. His numbers have declined for two straight seasons. Fact, not opinion.

Yes, 4 fewer points in fewer games played is clearly worth mentioning as a "year of decline." You're quibbling over little technicalities just because you can. You have zero interest in making an honest evaluation of his play - and I can certainly see why if you think "shooting" is the best part of his game. Can't wait to see you crack out the +/- again now.


In 2015/16 Barrie put up more goals and more primary assists than he did in 2014/15. Touting 2015/16 as a "year of decline" when we are literally talking 3 extra secondary assists accounting for the point difference (over 82 games) is silly. Sticking your head in the sand when we're talking about that sort of difference and saying "but math " when you could instead just apply a tiny bit of common sense is nothing short of dishonest.

 

[cgf]

God this story line is blown way out of proportion. The daft isn't nearly that bad there is just no McDavid and no Barrie isn't worth the 3rd overall pick

Are you really arguing that 3rd OA in this draft is so much more valuable than 4th OA in last year's draft?

 

[WhatWhat]

Are you really arguing that 3rd OA in this draft is so much more valuable than 4th OA in last year's draft?

Where the hell did you get that from...? I said that this draft and it's label of "lol its super weak the picks art worth much" is rediculous. I didn't say anything about the 3rd this year and the 4th last year

 

[AvsCOL]

I lose too many brain cells reading these threads. Bias vs. bias

 

[cgf]

Where the hell did you get that from...? I said that this draft and it's label of "lol its super weak the picks art worth much" is rediculous. I didn't say anything about the 3rd this year and the 4th last year

It would seem the logical assumption if Barrie was worth the 4th pick in last year's draft and (according to you) isn't worth the third in this one.

 

[Boomtime]

Basically Barrie would be a luxury piece and not a major change to the current situation. Though he is very serviceable Dallas does not need to pay a premium for that style of player as we have 2 players 1 at a similar level and 1 with potential of it playing his primary D side already.

Why would Dallas move a valuable trade chip 3rd overall for a luxury item when they have other areas of concern that would be more impactful. End of the day drafting at 3rd should in 2-3 seasons give us a solid #2 center to replace Spezza or the top pair RD we are looking for even if it's not a now fix filling the bigger void outweighs a luxury component.

 

[Mr Misty]

It would seem the logical assumption if Barrie was worth the 4th pick in last year's draft and (according to you) isn't worth the third in this one.

If you want to play with the transitive property of hockey, how does his 11 point dropoff actually improve his pick value?

 

[Patagonia]

Basically Barrie would be a luxury piece and not a major change to the current situation. Though he is very serviceable Dallas does not need to pay a premium for that style of player as we have 2 players 1 at a similar level and 1 with potential of it playing his primary D side already.

Why would Dallas move a valuable trade chip 3rd overall for a luxury item when they have other areas of concern that would be more impactful. End of the day drafting at 3rd should in 2-3 seasons give us a solid #2 center to replace Spezza or the top pair RD we are looking for even if it's not a now fix filling the bigger void outweighs a luxury component.

Barrie is worth more than a 3rd, but the Stars should not make the trade. They already have a similar if not better player in playing the same position with Klingberg. Dallas should keep the pick and draft a forward ie. Vilardi, Middlestadt or Glass to replace Spezza after a few years.

 

[EdAVSfan]

If you want to play with the transitive property of hockey, how does his 11 point dropoff actually improve his pick value?

Because it's relative to the offence the team put up.

If Barrie had put up his usual 50 points with his team scoring 165 goals, he'd be bordering on the hedman/Karlsson type offensive contribution to his team.

Obviously nowhere close defensively, but once a defensman starts getting close to participating in one third of his teams overall goals, you get into the elite category.

Barrie isn't that.

So the drop in points, is because of the total ineptness of the team in scoring goals as a whole.

He stayed pretty much static in terms of points vs percentage of his teams goals from the previous year.

 

[Mr Misty]

Because it's relative to the offence the team put up.

If Barrie had put up his usual 50 points with his team scoring 165 goals, he'd be bordering on the hedman/Karlsson type offensive contribution to his team.

Obviously nowhere close defensively, but once a defensman starts getting close to participating in one third of his teams overall goals, you get into the elite category.

Barrie isn't that.

So the drop in points, is because of the total ineptness of the team in scoring goals as a whole.

He stayed pretty much static in terms of points vs percentage of his teams goals from the previous year.

Just to be clear, you are describing a player who does not make a difference for his team in his draft+7 season. His one useful skill, his offense, is totally dependent on the quality of his team. It's not the way I would try to justify trading him for a higher pick than last year.

 

[Maukkis]

I lose too many brain cells reading these threads. Bias vs. bias

Welcome to HFBoards.

I really don't like this deal as a neutral fan of a Central team. Barrie is probably better than he is given credit for, but is he 3rd overall good? Maybe. What makes the point largely irrelevant is the fact that Klingberg exists. They are similar enough to render one of them ineffective. Then there is Honka, who should be ready to step in at this point. What Dallas would need more than a surplus of offensive talent at RD is a guy like Heiskanen - a rock solid defenseman who can be a high impact player in the show. Alternatively, Vilardi or Glass wouldn't hurt either, if Spezza moves on after his deal expires.

It's not the matter of value here, but rather the fact that Dallas can get a decent shot at adding something of bigger need by keeping the pick.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Just to be clear, you are describing a player who does not make a difference for his team in his draft+7 season. His one useful skill, his offense, is totally dependent on the quality of his team. It's not the way I would try to justify trading him for a higher pick than last year.

Really? That's what you understood?

No, what I described was a player who highly contributes to his team's offence. Unfortunately, he isn't among the elite, and therefore there's a limit to how much offence he can control. He's not karlsson.

Simply put, the team depends on him and he depends on the team.

Pretty much every player in the league is dependant on the quality of his team...barring they're absolutely elite.

It's a 5 man unit out there. Individuals can only do so much. They all need their teammates to put them in positions and opportunities to succeed.

I'd also like to add that Barrie was also thrust into a top pairing, pretty much #1 role for nearly half the season due to EJs injury.

 

[WhatWhat]

It would seem the logical assumption if Barrie was worth the 4th pick in last year's draft and (according to you) isn't worth the third in this one.

I never commented on the 4th pick last year and since it didn't happen I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was probably because he wasn't worth the 4th pick last year...


Doesn't take a PHD to figure out what I'm saying here. If I don't think he is worth the 3rd this year then I think it's pretty darn safe to assume I wouldn't have traded the 4th for his last year. You didn't just read between the lines there. You wrote what you wanted between the lines then read that.

 

[Mr Misty]

Really? That's what you understood?

No, what I described was a player who highly contributes to his team's offence. Unfortunately, he isn't among the elite, and therefore there's a limit to how much offence he can control. He's not karlsson.

Simply put, the team depends on him and he depends on the team.

Pretty much every player in the league is dependant on the quality of his team...barring they're absolutely elite.

It's a 5 man unit out there. Individuals can only do so much. They all need their teammates to put them in positions and opportunities to succeed.

I'd also like to add that Barrie was also thrust into a top pairing, pretty much #1 role for nearly half the season due to EJs injury.

I think you are missing my point. The odds are that there is at least one real difference maker in this draft outside of the top 2, and the bare minimum we should get for #3 overall is a guy as good relative to his team as Barrie. If he isn't a top pairing defenseman, why would anybody think he is worth #3?

 

[phlocky]

It would seem the logical assumption if Barrie was worth the 4th pick in last year's draft and (according to you) isn't worth the third in this one.

But the reality is that Barrie WASN'T worth the 4OA last year because Edmonton said no. There may have been "talks" or even "agreements" on discussion boards but the FACT is that he did NOT return (and therefore was NOT worth) the 4OA last year

 

[AvsGuy]

I think you are missing my point. The odds are that there is at least one real difference maker in this draft outside of the top 2, and the bare minimum we should get for #3 overall is a guy as good relative to his team as Barrie. If he isn't a top pairing defenseman, why would anybody think he is worth #3?

I tend to agree with your logic, but I think someone would think he's worth the #3 because of the lack of top-end talent in this draft vs. Barrie's proven (niche) ability. One of the top ranked d-men this year (Cale Makar, if he pans out) has about the same ceiling as Barrie has already hit. Depends if you value the iffy potential from most of this draft over a player who has already brought it to the table.

 

[Spotty 2 Hotty]

I tend to agree with your logic, but I think someone would think he's worth the #3 because of the lack of top-end talent in this draft vs. Barrie's proven (niche) ability. One of the top ranked d-men this year (Cale Makar, if he pans out) has about the same ceiling as Barrie has already hit. Depends if you value the iffy potential from most of this draft over a player who has already brought it to the table.

But if you want to look at that way, you also have to consider his potential value to the Stars which isn't necessarily as high as drafting someone like Heiskanen (a left shot defenseman with two-way potential) or Vilardi at forward position. Barrie's value to the Stars isn't as high as it would be to a team needing an right shot offensive defenseman when we already have Klingberg and now Honka ready to make the jump.

If this were a different team that held the 3rd overall, the value would likely be perceived differently.

 

[McSuper]

Except he's nothing like Bergeron. It's always amusing when people try to draw parallels for him, nonsense overload everywhere.

Can't wait to read he's a PP specialist

, makes it easier to completely ignore the person posting that.

I get pissed at fellow Oiler fans when they say this . At least know the player if you are going to post about them

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

God this story line is blown way out of proportion. The daft isn't nearly that bad there is just no McDavid and no Barrie isn't worth the 3rd overall pick

I'd trade 3rd for Barrie before Tanev.