Value of: D Michael Stone to the Rangers

[rt]

It doesn't matter what you want to pay, it's about what the player is worth. Dman always fetch a premium and Stone is actually a legit top 4guy compared to the bottom pairing players that normally get moved

Roman Polak of all players got 2 2nds last year

Correct. Stone is getting at least a 1st (or equivalent value).

 

[Homesick]

1st rounder.

I could see a package similar to what Russell returned last year.

So, something like this

to Rangers:
- Michael Stone
to Coyotes:
- Conditional Pick (guaranteed 2nd, turns into a 1st if they reach the finals)
- Clendenning
- Mid-level prospect

Seems reasonable

Clearly. And people in this thread obviously haven't been paying attention during the last 4-5 trade deadlines. 1st rounder.

Clearly you should give some examples of a UFA rental with one decent season in his career and now looks pretty average fetching such grand returns. How much is a #4 defenseman on the worst defense in the league worth?

 

[Ivan13]

Seems reasonable

Clearly you should give some examples of a UFA rental with one decent season in his career and now looks pretty average fetching such grand returns. How much is a #4 defenseman on the worst defense in the league worth?

Roman Polak who is by far worse than Stone returned 2 2nd rounders just last season, is that good enough of an example?

And to call Stone a #4 on league's worst team is laughable at best, for a vast array of reasons, the two most obvious ones being:

1. He is a #3 that can both kill penalties and play on the PP as a triggerman and as a result sees 20+ mins of ice time
2. Yotes D is one place where they are good

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This is comedy gold. Stone is 10x the player both of these bums are.

Stone is worth a 1st rounder, he is a clear cut #3 D.

If thats what you think, trade him elsewhere. He's not needed or wanted at the cost of a 1st round pick.

 

[Savant]

Would gladly give a 2nd. Would have a hard time giving a first though.

 

[JimmyG89]

I've been on the Stone to NYR wagon for a while for various reasons:

1. Stone can fill a very big hole on this team this season (#1RD playing with McDonagh or possibly Staal to balance pairs)

2. Stone can be re-signed after buying out Girardi in the offseason (thus protecting Stone from expansion as we'll have a slot open)

3. Stone will require the least amount of current roster assets to get and provide what the team needs.

I'm not sure what exactly the needs of the Coyotes are as they have quite a bit of youth already in the NHL. The Rangers are strong on goaltending prospects (Igor Shestyorkin would be off the table).

My proposal would be as follows:

Conditional 2017 or 2018 2nd round pick (Ottawa in 2018 or NYR picks)*
One of Brandon Halverson or Ryan Gropp (both former 2nd round picks)
Mid-round (4th or 5th) pick or bottom 6 player under team control (Think Oscar Lindberg, Jesper Fast)

*The 2nd would become a 1st (2017) round pick based on the following:
NYR make the ECF while Stone plays at least 50% of the teams playoff games in the 1st two rounds or if Stone re-signs with the team.

Might require a small tweak, but I could see something like this getting done.

For the rest of the 2016 season:

LD: McDonagh, Staal, Skjei, Holden
RD: Stone, Girardi, Klein, Clendening

For 2017:

LD: McDonagh, Staal, Skjei
RD: Stone, Clendening

One of Holden/Klein will go in expansion (most likely). The other is on the roster.

Thoughts?

 

[Kaibur]

I've been on the Stone to NYR wagon for a while for various reasons:

1. Stone can fill a very big hole on this team this season (#1RD playing with McDonagh or possibly Staal to balance pairs)

2. Stone can be re-signed after buying out Girardi in the offseason (thus protecting Stone from expansion as we'll have a slot open)

3. Stone will require the least amount of current roster assets to get and provide what the team needs.

I'm not sure what exactly the needs of the Coyotes are as they have quite a bit of youth already in the NHL. The Rangers are strong on goaltending prospects (Igor Shestyorkin would be off the table).

My proposal would be as follows:

Conditional 2017 or 2018 2nd round pick (Ottawa in 2018 or NYR picks)*
One of Brandon Halverson or Ryan Gropp (both former 2nd round picks)
Mid-round (4th or 5th) pick or bottom 6 player under team control (Think Oscar Lindberg, Jesper Fast)

*The 2nd would become a 1st (2017) round pick based on the following:
NYR make the ECF while Stone plays at least 50% of the teams playoff games in the 1st two rounds or if Stone re-signs with the team.

Might require a small tweak, but I could see something like this getting done.

For the rest of the 2016 season:

LD: McDonagh, Staal, Skjei, Holden
RD: Stone, Girardi, Klein, Clendening

For 2017:

LD: McDonagh, Staal, Skjei
RD: Stone, Clendening

One of Holden/Klein will go in expansion (most likely). The other is on the roster.

Thoughts?

Lindberg, Gropp & the conditional 2nd would be an interesting offer.

 

[Homesick]

Roman Polak who is by far worse than Stone returned 2 2nd rounders just last season, is that good enough of an example?

And to call Stone a #4 on league's worst team is laughable at best, for a vast array of reasons, the two most obvious ones being:

1. He is a #3 that can both kill penalties and play on the PP as a triggerman and as a result sees 20+ mins of ice time
2. Yotes D is one place where they are good

OEL 24 min a game
Goligoski 23 min a game
Murphy 22 min a game
Stone 20 min a game

Murphy has passed him on the depth chart and Chychrun and Deangelo are going to pass him as well

2) How can you claim that D is good when they're allowing Smith to get absolutely peppered every damn night?

 

[Savant]

Lindberg, Gropp & the conditional 2nd would be an interesting offer.

I don't have a problem with this

 

[Kaibur]

3rd round pick offering is pretty insulting I think... why ask for a player indictating you want him and then lowball offer like this?

on the other hand... a first round pick at this point in the season seams a bit high

teams have been very hesitant to offer first rounders for ufa in recent years... the trade and sign option isn't so attractive in a year where expansion makes it difficult for any team to protect stone.

theres no need for Arizona to deal him now... they can wait for the offer they like. eventually he might be worth a first. ive said a few times I hope boston gets in on stone. I think a rhs capable of producing more offense than macquaid/k miller would benefit boston a lot in the second pair. boston has some cap issues and would want to send one of macquaid/k miller back in the deal I think.

my dream proposal ive posted in other threads but I keep thinking it makes too much sense to not work for both teams...

spooner, macquaid, boston first
for
hanzal and stone

and boston is upfront... tells Arizona we wont resign either guy {because honestly we don't need them next year and cant afford them either}

boston makes a gentlemans promise to trade the rights of hanzal and stone back to Arizona so Arizona can have a good chance to resign the 2 players after the expansion draft takes place {or perhaps before}

if stone is dealt to another team... that team might resign him. boston is still going to have k miller/ carlo/ c miller all signed as right hand shots with experience and will be trying to break in mcavoy so signing a 2nd pair right hand shot dman long term wont be on the agenda.

imho hanzal and stone are the 2 upgrades boston needs to become a legitimate contender to the cup and as such are worthy of giving up not only the first... but spooner too who imho would be arizonas top center possibly for the next couple years.

I doubt anyone is offering more for 2 rentals.

Would you do Spooner for Stone, one-for-one? How about something like Stone & White/Gaudet for Spooner and Morrow?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I'd give up a 2nd 2018 and Lindberg/Gropp/Halverson without hesitation.
If it's 2nd + Lindberg + Gropp/Halverson i'd have to think about it.

 

[Ivan13]

If thats what you think, trade him elsewhere. He's not needed or wanted at the cost of a 1st round pick.

I'm not a Yotes fan

 

[Ivan13]

OEL 24 min a game
Goligoski 23 min a game
Murphy 22 min a game
Stone 20 min a game

Murphy has passed him on the depth chart and Chychrun and Deangelo are going to pass him as well

2) How can you claim that D is good when they're allowing Smith to get absolutely peppered every damn night?

FYI TOI isn't everything and there's more to defense than 6 defensemen.

 

[Shootertooter]

Not sure how anyone looks at Stone and doesn't expect it to cost a 1st rounder, or something very close.

Maybe a late first rd pick at the deadline when contending teams are a bit more desperate, but likely not that high of a pick right now.

 

[Shootertooter]

I'd give up a 2nd 2018 and Lindberg/Gropp/Halverson without hesitation.
If it's 2nd + Lindberg + Gropp/Halverson i'd have to think about it.

"I'd give up a 2nd 2018 and Lindberg/Gropp/Halverson without hesitation."
-this is reasonable.


"If it's 2nd + Lindberg + Gropp/Halverson i'd have to think about it."
This is overpayment for a UFA, especially if the 2nd is conditional based on the playoff performance of the team and becomes a first if they get to the ECF.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Would you do Spooner for Stone, one-for-one? How about something like Stone & White/Gaudet for Spooner and Morrow?

I obviously don't make the decesions... but I feel spooner isn't going to work out on the wing... and isn't going to be given the chance to play center. hes eligible for arbitration and as a 50 point guy is probably close to the 3 mill mark for his next contract.

to me... this represents a problem. I'm not the one that is forcing him to wing... so I think boston management sees the same problem I do.

trading a young asset for a rental isn't something teams rush to do... but theres certainly precedent. we got brian rolston in the ray bourque rental years ago. we gave up joe colborne in the tomas karberle rental. so theres definitely some precedence.

spooner for stone... feels right to me but causes the bruins to have way too many rhs dmen making 2+ mill

if Arizona wasn't willing to take one back... boston would need to find another place to dump one.

of course my logic is all based on thinking boston doesn't see a future with colin miller. if I'm right and colin miller has reached his best before date than bringing in an offensive talented ufa for this year makes sense. but if boston plans to give colin miller this season and next season to develop... it wont make sense to bring in stone.

I have to think boston should be in on hanzal too though. weve been using riley nash for our third line center and it kills the offensive potential of the line. hanzal is no offensive wizard but hes a well established 40 point guy while playing with that impressive size.

it looks like backes is going to stay at wing so we need the third line center upgrade if we want to be legitimate cup contenders.

Arizona has the 2 things boston needs... that's why I would be willing to overpay to get them. one stop convienient shopping.

next year boston has a couple kids that they will want to play in these spots so the ufa status doesn't scare me at all

 

[Gardner McKay]

"I'd give up a 2nd 2018 and Lindberg/Gropp/Halverson without hesitation."
-this is reasonable.


"If it's 2nd + Lindberg + Gropp/Halverson i'd have to think about it."
This is overpayment for a UFA, especially if the 2nd is conditional based on the playoff performance of the team and becomes a first if they get to the ECF.

I would have no problem trading a 2nd round pick (not conditional) + Lindberg + Halverson. Normally I would scoff at trading Halverson due to our lack of goaltending prospects but Sheshty looks like a potential steal.

 

[cwede]

Not sure how anyone looks at Stone and doesn't expect it to cost a 1st rounder, or something very close.

because he's a rental

GM's are slow learners, but they are realizing that there can be too high a price

in today's skewing younger game, with guys in their early 20's earning top minutes, the price can be too high

you might find a team to pay that, but many teams with similar needs, and similar title hopes, wont go that high

and i certainly hope the Rangers keep their 1st
and after the E.Staal and R.Clowe debacles, i hope they choose any rental and his price prudently
I think Stone could help, but not 'at any cost'

 

[JimmyG89]

"I'd give up a 2nd 2018 and Lindberg/Gropp/Halverson without hesitation."
-this is reasonable.


"If it's 2nd + Lindberg + Gropp/Halverson i'd have to think about it."
This is overpayment for a UFA, especially if the 2nd is conditional based on the playoff performance of the team and becomes a first if they get to the ECF.

The first trade you listed is a steal for the Rangers.

You do realize that the value of a top 4 RHD in this league is very high. Even as an UFA it is a big price and a commodity to have.

The conditional first is if the team make the ECF (That becomes pick 28-31 regardless) OR if he is re-signed (meaning they get another X amount of years of Stone).

For someone who is 26, would be 27 for next season, and can be part of the team core of defense for at least the next 3-5 seasons, it'd be worth it. The team can dump Girardi in the offseason (read as buy out) and hopefully Vegas takes Klein. This could free enough money for Shattenkirk.

McDonagh-Stone
Staal-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Clendenning/Holden
Holden/Clendening

 

[Vipers31]

because he's a rental

GM's are slow learners, but they are realizing that there can be too high a price

There's not much evidence of GMs as a whole realising that. We saw enough deals last year to doubt whether they all got smarter. I personally agree with you having no interest in such a price, and Im happy the GM of my favorite team is a strict opponent of paying like that for rentals, but all it takes is a couple of others. I see zero reason to believe that all remaining ones got enlightened since the last deadline.

 

[Kaibur]

If this is considered a weaker draft, more picks might move as well.

And deadline trades, even with steep costs, do work out at times. The Vermette trade worked out for all parties involved. Chicago got a Cup and Vermette contributed, while the Yotes got the 30th pick and a year and some change of Dahlbeck on their back end. Both teams would probably do that trade again.

 

[WhatWhat]

Stone seems like the poster boy rental deal if Arz decides to go that way. As a neutral fan I would be surprised if he didn't return a first or value along those lines

 

[cwede]

its been said in this thread, multiple times, that a 1st round pick is not uncommon for a rental

i looked back at the last 2 trade deadlines
(yes not all trades happen that day, but i don't have infinite time to spend on this stuff)
and i believe only one trade was basically a 1st round pick for a rental,
but that was a whopper -
CBH paying Dano('13 1st) AND a 1st for Ladd last season (and some throw-ins both ways)
dunno if it was worht it, especially for such a Cap challenged team that has to rely on some ELC players to fill roster

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

"I'd give up a 2nd 2018 and Lindberg/Gropp/Halverson without hesitation."
-this is reasonable.


"If it's 2nd + Lindberg + Gropp/Halverson i'd have to think about it."
This is overpayment for a UFA, especially if the 2nd is conditional based on the playoff performance of the team and becomes a first if they get to the ECF.

I was thinking without any conditions on the pick.
I think 'the best' of our 2 2nd rounder 18 + decent young bottom 6 player or a middleish prospect is a decent offer, might not be enough though.

 

[McSuper]

1st rounder.

As An Oiler fan I would offer our 1st if we can talk contract first and have a deal in place