CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[awfulwaffle]

No. Your pension is invested stock. If a bunch of people retire this year and the stock takes a tumble. It affects the person and the rates for next year.

I transferred jobs and they valued my pension and I had to buy back years of service at their rate. Because my last pension out performed my current pension at the time I got a surplus. It can go the other way.

If my pension buys stock and goes bankrupt, you think they just pay me? With what?

Even taking that out if I have indpendent stocks in MLSE (I don’t know that I do…. There is an advisor who chooses for me) then do I get to be interested?

Edit. That’s not what I said. I said OMERS owns 5% of MLSE. Not that it is only 5% of the stock portfolio. What if it’s 100% (unlikely but still possible)

This is all beyond the silly point that the legend gets to determine who is interested and what are valid reasons.

Are you sure that your new company just didn't have a different pension multiplier and calculation than your previous employer? Typically pensions are calculated by years of service * multiplier * average salary after you are done with your "service". The $ amount of money sitting in a pension typically isn't factored into it, that would defeat the purpose of a "guaranteed" payment amount, which is what is the key identifier for a pension.

Regardless, I think you are getting a little too worked up over your pension plan's 5% into MLSE. The Maple Leafs are what, 33% of the valuation of MLSE overall? And you are concerned about 5% of that? The Leafs and their valuation, and the NHL in general, aren't going anywhere. Will probably get a bigger bump(yay you!) with 2 expansion teams than if the Coyotes moved and only 1 expansion team.

And you tell me if you have stock(they are a private company no?). If you wanted to voice your opinion as a shareholder, you certainly have that right(btw, don't think those in charge of decisions at MLSE are reading this forum).

 

[Legion34]

Are you sure that your new company just didn't have a different pension multiplier and calculation than your previous employer? Typically pensions are calculated by years of service * multiplier * average salary after you are done with your "service". The $ amount of money sitting in a pension typically isn't factored into it, that would defeat the purpose of a "guaranteed" payment amount, which is what is the key identifier for a pension.

Regardless, I think you are getting a little too worked up over your pension plan's 5% into MLSE. The Maple Leafs are what, 33% of the valuation of MLSE overall? And you are concerned about 5% of that? The Leafs and their valuation, and the NHL in general, aren't going anywhere. Will probably get a bigger bump(yay you!) with 2 expansion teams than if the Coyotes moved and only 1 expansion team.

And you tell me if you have stock(they are a private company no?). If you wanted to voice your opinion as a shareholder, you certainly have that right(btw, don't think those in charge of decisions at MLSE are reading this forum).

1.) nope. When I transferred I literally got a package of what my pension was worth. And what it cost to buy into Omers. Every year you also get a package of how your pension did in the market. If you leave early you get your pension paid out in cash (generally an rrsp to avoid taxes) It matters

2.) it’s not about getting “worked up”
Or not. This is a hockey message board. It’s not for you to determine how worked up I am or not or should be. It’s not for others to determine who has the right to talk about this topic. The point was someone telling me I have no right to have an interest in this topic. I don’t need an explanation. But I can say part of my future is tied into the NHL success, which not everyone in Arizona can. It’s a dumb argument either way. It is a league issue not a whomever legend says can talk. About it issue

 

[awfulwaffle]

1.) nope. When I transferred I literally got a package of what my pension was worth. And what it cost to buy into Omers. Every year you also get a package of how your pension did in the market. If you leave early you get your pension paid out in cash (generally an rrsp to avoid taxes) It matters

2.) it’s not about getting “worked up”
Or not. This is a hockey message board. It’s not for you to determine how worked up I am or not or should be. It’s not for others to determine who has the right to talk about this topic. The point was someone telling me I have no right to have an interest in this topic. I don’t need an explanation. But I can say part of my future is tied into the NHL success, which not everyone in Arizona can. It’s a dumb argument either way. It is a league issue not a whomever legend says can talk. About it issue

This sounds more like a 401k than a pension.......

Regardless, if you are really concerned about the NHL and the Maple Leafs dropping in value, then I have some bad news for you, the earth is also flat.

 

[Legion34]

This sounds more like a 401k than a pension.......

Regardless, if you are really concerned about the NHL and the Maple Leafs dropping in value, then I have some bad news for you, the earth is also flat.

It’s not. We don’t have 401k in Canada. Your pension contributions go into stocks. If you finish your years you get X% of your income. Typically that’s “gauranteed” by the still working.

During the financial crisis in 2008 my premiums tripled per month.
If you leave early you get your pension money in cash instead of a pensioned income. If you work there for 5 years you don’t get paid for the rest of your life. You just get a lump sum until you hit 30 years or a combo of 85 years of age plus service.

It’s not the point. The point is that gate keeping this thread is silly. But if there were “invested” parties. It’s much more people who’s money (however much or little) is invested rather than the 4 fans who go to games in a college arena

 

[awfulwaffle]

It’s not. We don’t have 401k in Canada. Your pension contributions go into stocks. If you finish your years you get X% of your income. Typically that’s “gauranteed” by the still working.

During the financial crisis in 2008 my premiums tripled per month.
If you leave early you get your pension money in cash instead of a pensioned income. If you work there for 5 years you don’t get paid for the rest of your life. You just get a lump sum until you hit 30 years or a combo of 85 years of age plus service.

It’s not the point. The point is that gate keeping this thread is silly. But if there were “invested” parties. It’s much more people who’s money (however much or little) is invested rather than the 4 fans who go to games in a college arena

I would think the Phoenix metro area, with it's youth hockey program and the good that the Coyotes have done in the community have more to lose than your pension, but that's just me.

 

[GKJ]

So... about this auction timeline and the "too late to pivot" thing.

One thing that has struck me, and it's not going to be well-received by the Yotes' faithful. This is not an intentional dunk, or a drive-by.

If the concern out there is a Lame Duck season, is it really though? In its normal context, a Lame Duck season would mean drastic, or even perhaps catastrophic, drops in attendance. To a market that averaged, say 12K-14K before the announcement, and attendance dropped 40% (as an example), people everywhere would be losing their minds.

For this situation though, we're already in an attendance bubble of 4,100 - 5,000 fans at The Mullet. Even if that 40% percentile happens, we're talking roughly half of the already-average attendance there? So roughly 2K people say "Screw this, I ain't going!" Compared to a larger venue's drop off's?

I'd be hard pressed to believe attendance would drop, to be honest. If it's truly the end, the Swan Song, they're leaving after 2024-2025 season concludes, I can actually see it being Standing Room Only.

With all indicators pointing toward going back once this gets sorted out, I wonder how much they’d bother protesting in that way. I’m not gonna say that they shouldn’t be upset if they leave, but the league itself has your back. The best way that can be validated is to continue supporting the team and entice a prospective owner and/or government to take notice in the face of dire circumstances that the opportunity still exists.

 

[Legion34]

I would think the Phoenix metro area, with it's youth hockey program and the good that the Coyotes have done in the community have more to lose than your pension, but that's just me.

Then they should probably go to games then?

We have been hearing about all the positives for years. Why does no one support them?

There are tons of youth hockey leagues. That doesn’t mean they get a team

I volunteer. That doesn’t mean I should play in th nhl

 

[awfulwaffle]

Then they should probably go to games then?

We have been hearing about all the positives for years. Why does no one support them?

There are tons of youth hockey leagues. That doesn’t mean they get a team

I volunteer. That doesn’t mean I should play in th nhl

Dude give it a rest, there have been times the Blackhawks have been lower attendance than the Coyotes, Sabres, pretty of other teams.

 

[Legion34]

Dude give it a rest, there have been times the Blackhawks have been lower attendance than the Coyotes, Sabres, pretty of other teams.

Did they play in a college arena? Was there revenue sharing?

The fact is the city/state doesn’t support the team. Fans of other teams do. The idea that they are somehow owed a team is just silly. There clearly aren’t enough fans that care enough.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Did they play in a college arena? Was there revenue sharing?

The fact is the city/state doesn’t support the team. Fans of other teams do. The idea that they are somehow owed a team is just silly. There clearly aren’t enough fans that care enough.

OK I'm done here. I guess you don't realize there are multiple teams that take in money from revenue sharing. I guess by that metric, multiple teams should be relocated.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Someone has to support this disaster and it ain’t them

Well it ain't you.

Again, I have to ask, why are you involving yourself in a conversation that has nothing to do with you? You clearly have the mindset whereby nobody should be involved in a conversation or situation unless they are impacted by it. So, be gone.

I am literally just asking you why you are taking this so personally brother.

How is this affecting your life?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Jeez, I kinda hope his pension *is* tied to our attendance, now. His right to air his beefs here does not interfere with my right to express my opinion that he's categorically incorrect.

 

[aqib]

You're going to have to help explain something to me. Is your pension not a monthly amount set by your employer? I'm not sure what you are implying with the 5% of your pension is tied to MLSE. The Maple Leafs and the NHL aren't going anywhere, so why the big concern about your pension(especially considering it's only 5% of your pension portfolio)?

I'm in the same pension plan. It's the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System or OMERS for short. Basically anyone who works for a municipality in Ontario is part of that plan. You vest after 5 years. If you leave before the 5 years is up you can roll what you accumulated into your plan elsewhere or leave it in case you go work for another municipality later on. Your annual payment upon retiring is based on years of service and an average of your 5 highest paid years. Last I checked it was 2% for every year of service so if you worked for 30 years and averaged 100K per year in your 5 best years you get 60K a year for life once you retire. If you die your spouse gets it for life. If you got paid less then 7 years of payments you designated heirs get paid the difference between what you got and the 7 years. So if you and your spouse go on a trip the week after you retire and your plane crashes your kids get 7 years worth of pension payments.

 

[Snarky Coyote]

Legion bro, are you ok? I get your passion for this, and I don't understand why. You are not helping your argument by saying things that are hyperbole. More than four fans show up. The situation with Glendale isn't as simple as you portray, and last year, they made more money at Mullett than they did at Glendale in previous years. The situation is messed up, but the league has worked hard to keep the team here. It's common to hear that people expect them to build a statue of Betteman for all he did to keep the team here at the new arena. He represents the owners of the NHL, so it goes without saying that the people in charge are okay with it or at least feel that keeping the team here is more advantageous than other options. That is the only thing that matters, and I don't know why they feel that way, but I am not a mega-millionaire, and I don't suppose they got all their money by making illogical choices. Of course, if you expect anyone here to change their opinion on this situation, you haven't been paying attention.

 

[LPHabsFan]

I am literally just asking you why you are taking this so personally brother.

How is this affecting your life?

Doesn't matter whether or not I am or aren't taking it personally as it doesn't involve you. You constantly say that because we aren't directly impacted by whatever situation we're talking about, we shouldn't be talking about, so I'm simply telling you to take your own advice by not involving yourself in something that doesn't involve you.

 

[Tawnos]

This is one of the most braindead conversations in the history of the megathread and that's saying something.

"Why do you care?"
"Why are you gatekeeping?"

Shut up already.

 

[awfulwaffle]

I'm in the same pension plan. It's the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System or OMERS for short. Basically anyone who works for a municipality in Ontario is part of that plan. You vest after 5 years. If you leave before the 5 years is up you can roll what you accumulated into your plan elsewhere or leave it in case you go work for another municipality later on. Your annual payment upon retiring is based on years of service and an average of your 5 highest paid years. Last I checked it was 2% for every year of service so if you worked for 30 years and averaged 100K per year in your 5 best years you get 60K a year for life once you retire. If you die your spouse gets it for life. If you got paid less then 7 years of payments you designated heirs get paid the difference between what you got and the 7 years. So if you and your spouse go on a trip the after you retire and your plane crashes your kids get 7 years worth of pension payments.

Thanks for that explanation, THIS sounds more like a pension plan, and my understanding of how it's calculated. The total funds available might be impacted by their value, but that's the pension plan's manager's job to decide what to invest in to have funds available. But yeah, doesn't sound like his 5% "investment" has any bearing on what he will actually make with his pension payments.

Jeez, I kinda hope his pension *is* tied to our attendance, now. His right to air his beefs here does not interfere with my right to express my opinion that he's categorically incorrect.

I just don't think he understands how pensions work. Since he's so "invested", might be something to look into though.

 

[aqib]

Thanks for that explanation, THIS sounds more like a pension plan, and my understanding of how it's calculated. The total funds available might be impacted by their value, but that's the pension plan's manager's job to decide what to invest in to have funds available. But yeah, doesn't sound like his 5% "investment" has any bearing on what he will actually make with his pension payments.



I just don't think he understands how pensions work. Since he's so "invested", might be something to look into though.

Well if the value of the investments tank that would compromise the ability to make good on the commitment. OMERS manages about $124 billion in assets. So its MLSE stake isn't a huge portion of the portfolio. It doesn't get us discounts on ticket or merch. Its not enough to make me switch from being an Oilers fan to a Leafs fan that would only happen if I got a job with MLSE.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

So... about this auction timeline and the "too late to pivot" thing.

One thing that has struck me, and it's not going to be well-received by the Yotes' faithful. This is not an intentional dunk, or a drive-by.

If the concern out there is a Lame Duck season, is it really though? In its normal context, a Lame Duck season would mean drastic, or even perhaps catastrophic, drops in attendance. To a market that averaged, say 12K-14K before the announcement, and attendance dropped 40% (as an example), people everywhere would be losing their minds.

For this situation though, we're already in an attendance bubble of 4,100 - 5,000 fans at The Mullet. Even if that 40% percentile happens, we're talking roughly half of the already-average attendance there? So roughly 2K people say "Screw this, I ain't going!" Compared to a larger venue's drop off's?

I'd be hard pressed to believe attendance would drop, to be honest. If it's truly the end, the Swan Song, they're leaving after 2024-2025 season concludes, I can actually see it being Standing Room Only.

Definitely a possibility, but I think your last sentence would only apply to the games that it already does at the Mullett.

 

[Stumbledore]

If the concern out there is a Lame Duck season, is it really though? In its normal context, a Lame Duck season would mean drastic, or even perhaps catastrophic, drops in attendance.

I'd be hard pressed to believe attendance would drop, to be honest. If it's truly the end, the Swan Song, they're leaving after 2024-2025 season concludes, I can actually see it being Standing Room Only.

Completely agree. If there was a credible, non-revocable announcement that the Coyotes were playing their final season in Arizona, I would coax these old bones onto a plane one more time and fly down to see my team play there. I suspect I wouldn't be alone in my thinking.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Completely agree. If there was a credible, non-revocable announcement that the Coyotes were playing their final season in Arizona, I would coax these old bones onto a plane one more time and fly down to see my team play there. I suspect I wouldn't be alone in my thinking.

Not to mention all the transplants that are fans of other teams that live in the valley. Now they will have to drive up to Vegas or CA if they want to see their favorite team instead of the barn in their own backyard.

 

[TheLegend]

You don’t determine any individual persons interest. And actually my pension plan is directly invested and owns a 5% stake in MLSE.

I have a direct financial interest in the league. You may not. But the world doesn’t revolve around you.

Great..... And the value of Leafs and MLSE been directly affected by the Coyotes?? Somehow I'd say no.

You are in this thread non stop gate keeping what people are and aren’t allowed to talk about. Which insider is credible (based on your desired outcome rather than the ONE who actually said they would lose the vote).

So??? I was actually for TED being put up to a public referendum. If you were following along this thread you'd know that rather than popping in every few months.

And I don't have control over who posts what. You want to be critical? Fine. Knock yourself out. Just don't be surprised if I respond and point out where you're assumptions are wrong.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

This is one of the most braindead conversations in the history of the megathread and that's saying something.

"Why do you care?"
"Why are you gatekeeping?"

Shut up already.

Amen.

No one here has the authority to say who has the right to pay attention to this issue.

 

[Lions67]

“I’m just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round.
You know I love to watch em roll..”

 

[Legion34]

I'm in the same pension plan. It's the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System or OMERS for short. Basically anyone who works for a municipality in Ontario is part of that plan. You vest after 5 years. If you leave before the 5 years is up you can roll what you accumulated into your plan elsewhere or leave it in case you go work for another municipality later on. Your annual payment upon retiring is based on years of service and an average of your 5 highest paid years. Last I checked it was 2% for every year of service so if you worked for 30 years and averaged 100K per year in your 5 best years you get 60K a year for life once you retire. If you die your spouse gets it for life. If you got paid less then 7 years of payments you designated heirs get paid the difference between what you got and the 7 years. So if you and your spouse go on a trip the week after you retire and your plane crashes your kids get 7 years worth of pension payments.

This isn’t really accurate fyi if you leave early. You cannot just keep your pension and get 2% of your best 3-5 years. I actually looked into it. I was going to change lines of
Work completely at 20 years and try to take 40%. It works out like that only if completely your 30/80-85 factor.

Look at your example. You think you can quit after 5 years of 100k and they will pay you 10k from 50 for the rest of your life? That’s hundreds of thousands of dollars. That’s insane.

You can’t do it. I have Been in 3 pensions in the past 21 years. The first one I rolled over the second I got paid out. Bought the OMERS and had to put the surplus in RRSP.