Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
- 26,110
- 13,503
CXLIX - FINAL thoughts on the Arizona Coyotes
- Thread starter Tom ServoMST3K
- Start date
Why are you making me look up big words?
Not sure if this development means the end of NHL in Arizona or a better chance in the long run. It will need a deep pocketed patient owner regardless.
JimAnchower
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2012
- 1,465
- 265
This makes it seem like his intention all along for the land was to win the auction and then sit on the land, claiming any development was delayed because Phoenix isn't giving him the necessary approvals.
Its funny that people tell me that no one will pay that for a second team in Southern Ontario but some of the same people think someone will pay that for a team in Arizona
MaskedSonja
Registered User
Its....finally over....not with a lusty howl over the desert, but a meek, quiet whine?
When I saw that the auction was being pulled I thought "thats it then"-and surprisingly I was right.
Going to really collect my thoughts on this-but wow, its done it seems.
When I saw that the auction was being pulled I thought "thats it then"-and surprisingly I was right.
Going to really collect my thoughts on this-but wow, its done it seems.
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MaskedSonja
Registered User
And I do understand too it doesnt necessarily mean hockey will never come back to the area, or any thing like that, Just might be awhile, and it will go through a fresh process-not the arena hopping oh we have a new arena, whoops guess not merry-go-round.
Llama19
Registered User
Report: Alex Meruelo stepping down as owner of the Arizona Coyotes
Source (Video and Article): www.12news.com/article/sports/nhl/coyotes/report-alex-meruelo-stepping-down-as-arizona-coyotes-owner/75-c89186a8-ef45-4cdc-9c9f-7ae1087b52a5
Source (Video and Article): www.12news.com/article/sports/nhl/coyotes/report-alex-meruelo-stepping-down-as-arizona-coyotes-owner/75-c89186a8-ef45-4cdc-9c9f-7ae1087b52a5
Bixby Snyder
IBTFAD
What are the recent "new" cities? If you're talking only NHL even though you mentioned "big 4" the most recent sunbelt team is Vegas most recent after that would be Nashville and they've been around for about 25 years, the California teams have been around for 30+, LA almost 60, FLA teams 30+, Carolina and Dallas were relocations that happened around the same time as Phoenix at ~30 years.
Llama19
Registered User
State Land Department: Auction canceled by doubts over Coyotes' readiness
To quote:
"State Land Department sought interpretation one week ahead of auction
According to a letter sent by Adam Stranieri, zoning administrator for Phoenix, to Mark Edelman, director of planning and engineering for the State Land Department, the state agency requested an informal interpretation of the permitted uses on the site from the city on Thursday, June 20, exactly one week before the auction was scheduled.
In that letter, Stranieri wrote that an arena is not permitted by right in the existing zoning on the site, and a special use permit would be required. The permit would need to be granted by the Phoenix City Council.
The next day, the State Land Department sent out a notice that the auction was canceled, citing the need for the permit ahead of the sale.
“As a result, we are requesting that the applicant file for and receive a special use permit prior to the auction,” the notice stated. “This affords the applicant and ASLD certainty that the applicant can build what it intends to build for its anchor tenant.”
It is not unprecedented for an auction to be canceled, but none has been as high-profile as the June 27 auction. This year, four other auctions have been canceled. Two have been postponed, but one of those postponed auctions was later canceled.
Ability to hit milestones called into question
“In this case, the auction notice outlined specific performance milestones that needed to be met based on the applicant’s intended use,” Cordova said. “However, the need for a special use permit created uncertainty as to whether that use could occur and therefore whether our applicant could meet those milestones if they were to be the successful bidder.”
Many of the required milestones for the site involved infrastructure and accessibility improvements on the site, which could be more costly than the purchase price of the land. According to the auction notice, the city estimated the needed infrastructure improvements to cost about $80 million.
The winning bidder would be required to provide a phasing schedule for planning, engineering, permitting and construction of all required infrastructure within six months of the auction and within 12 months would be required to commence construction. The infrastructure must then be completed within 36 months of the auction date."
Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2024/06/25/arizona-state-land-department-canceled-coyotes-auction-over-readiness/74192514007/
To quote:
"State Land Department sought interpretation one week ahead of auction
According to a letter sent by Adam Stranieri, zoning administrator for Phoenix, to Mark Edelman, director of planning and engineering for the State Land Department, the state agency requested an informal interpretation of the permitted uses on the site from the city on Thursday, June 20, exactly one week before the auction was scheduled.
In that letter, Stranieri wrote that an arena is not permitted by right in the existing zoning on the site, and a special use permit would be required. The permit would need to be granted by the Phoenix City Council.
The next day, the State Land Department sent out a notice that the auction was canceled, citing the need for the permit ahead of the sale.
“As a result, we are requesting that the applicant file for and receive a special use permit prior to the auction,” the notice stated. “This affords the applicant and ASLD certainty that the applicant can build what it intends to build for its anchor tenant.”
It is not unprecedented for an auction to be canceled, but none has been as high-profile as the June 27 auction. This year, four other auctions have been canceled. Two have been postponed, but one of those postponed auctions was later canceled.
Ability to hit milestones called into question
“In this case, the auction notice outlined specific performance milestones that needed to be met based on the applicant’s intended use,” Cordova said. “However, the need for a special use permit created uncertainty as to whether that use could occur and therefore whether our applicant could meet those milestones if they were to be the successful bidder.”
Many of the required milestones for the site involved infrastructure and accessibility improvements on the site, which could be more costly than the purchase price of the land. According to the auction notice, the city estimated the needed infrastructure improvements to cost about $80 million.
The winning bidder would be required to provide a phasing schedule for planning, engineering, permitting and construction of all required infrastructure within six months of the auction and within 12 months would be required to commence construction. The infrastructure must then be completed within 36 months of the auction date."
Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2024/06/25/arizona-state-land-department-canceled-coyotes-auction-over-readiness/74192514007/
sneakytitz
Registered User
This recent development almost certainly means that expansion talks will be in full gear this week at the BOG meetings. The NHL/owners have no more impending "what ifs" to consider with the current landscape.
I know it'll never happen, but I'm still hoping for apologies around here.
Everything that people said would happen, has happened.
It may have taken more time than we thought, but in the end, we were right.
I don't believe for a second that people in the media, locally like Morgan, or nationally like Friedman/Lebrun and others, actually ever believed the talking, points but instead towed the company line in order to maintain their status in the NHL's eyes.
We were told that when Muruelo took over, all of the problems were solved. We were told that he had a true desire to build this team into a stable financial position. He was invested in the market because of his heritage. He was a solid businessman with a long history of turning duds in to studs. We were told he's walking away with a billion dollars and that in 5 years the team would for sure be back.
And that's just a short list off the top of my head.
Everything that people said would happen, has happened.
It may have taken more time than we thought, but in the end, we were right.
I don't believe for a second that people in the media, locally like Morgan, or nationally like Friedman/Lebrun and others, actually ever believed the talking, points but instead towed the company line in order to maintain their status in the NHL's eyes.
We were told that when Muruelo took over, all of the problems were solved. We were told that he had a true desire to build this team into a stable financial position. He was invested in the market because of his heritage. He was a solid businessman with a long history of turning duds in to studs. We were told he's walking away with a billion dollars and that in 5 years the team would for sure be back.
And that's just a short list off the top of my head.
Phoenix, Atlanta. Those that got the NHL after during or after the 1990s expansion. Phoenix was the second to lose one after Atlanta. It's a bad look for Phoenix in general as a sports town is what I'm saying.
I think Toronto gets an NFL team before any of this Aqib. Thats probably a better chance of making money more than either hockey team. Hockey's model for business is a broken one, a thing people around here and the league ignore. Being a gate-driven league in 2024 is nonsense imo.
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
Bixby Snyder
IBTFAD
Other than Vegas none of the sunbelt teams are recent or new. Relocations happen in NA pro sports and it's usually not the fault of the city or fans but greedy entitled billionaire owners.
Fair enough.
Glendale is 25 minutes from downtown! At some point need to wake up and realize that was the only option to keep the Coyotes until another arena was built.
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
That truly was a grift for the ages. I just hope he didn't salt the earth on the way out, too.
cbcwpg
Registered User
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
- 193,050
- 43,528
We’ll all be long dead and gone before Toronto gets an NFL team
barkovcanfinnish
Stanley Cup Champs 2024
Total loser.
I really hope someone can get the Coyotes assets from him and build a new arena. The fans deserve way better
I really hope someone can get the Coyotes assets from him and build a new arena. The fans deserve way better
cbcwpg
Registered User
At best, all Meruelo was going to do was kick the can down the road until the last possible moment and then not get an arena built. So having him walk away now is probably the best, because it does at least open the door , if by some miracle, there is actually someone who wants an expansion franchise in Phoenix.
But, realistically, who would come in now and pay full Bettman price for an expansion franchise, when at any time in the last 20+ years they could have bought the team for pennies on the dollar or at least hundreds of millions less than the price going forward?
But, realistically, who would come in now and pay full Bettman price for an expansion franchise, when at any time in the last 20+ years they could have bought the team for pennies on the dollar or at least hundreds of millions less than the price going forward?
cheswick
Non-registered User
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
I'm willing to bet there's a lot more there than we know. It was true of Atlanta, when these questions came up.
If I've read everything correctly, the Jets 1.0/Coyotes history remains with the league until someone comes in and buys a franchise for Phoenix. So... not necessarily "homeless", but certainly not tied to any other organization.
kickback256
Registered User
sneakytitz
Registered User
Circumstances and personal fortunes change all the time, even with the exceptionally wealthy. For example, Ryan Smith could have bought the Anaheim Ducks for $109 million back in 2005 - but I doubt 25 year old Ryan Smith had that kind of money. Sure does now though, so he paid $1.2 billion.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
At the end of the day, for me the problems that led to this outcome break down like this:
(1) Any new Coyotes started from a shitty position because of the debt the organization racked up.
(2) Meruelo is like a lot of business people in his class, including some current and solid NHL owners, who skirt or go over the edge of ethical business practices. Even if legal, there's an air of sleaziness to it.
(3) Meruelo in particular is not a charming, affable person. This issue, and issue #2 create a problem with:
(4) The Phoenix and Arizona market is especially difficult to deal with on projects, politically and otherwise. Maybe even uniquely so. 2 and 3 meant that Meruelo was never successfully ever able to gain the trust needed to grease the skids, if you will.
(5) Nepotism.
There is no defense of Meruelo, because 3 of those 5 factors are directly on him, another one isn't helped along by those 3 factors, and (1) is a factor that maybe means Meruelo's type of character is the only type that would give it a go.
(1) Any new Coyotes started from a shitty position because of the debt the organization racked up.
(2) Meruelo is like a lot of business people in his class, including some current and solid NHL owners, who skirt or go over the edge of ethical business practices. Even if legal, there's an air of sleaziness to it.
(3) Meruelo in particular is not a charming, affable person. This issue, and issue #2 create a problem with:
(4) The Phoenix and Arizona market is especially difficult to deal with on projects, politically and otherwise. Maybe even uniquely so. 2 and 3 meant that Meruelo was never successfully ever able to gain the trust needed to grease the skids, if you will.
(5) Nepotism.
There is no defense of Meruelo, because 3 of those 5 factors are directly on him, another one isn't helped along by those 3 factors, and (1) is a factor that maybe means Meruelo's type of character is the only type that would give it a go.
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