Crosby 20 straight ppg+ vs Howe 20 straight top 5 in pts?

[Nadal On Clay]

Howe’s streak is more impressive, but I would change my vote if Crosby has 5 more seasons playing at a PPG pace (unlikely). 20 straight top 5 scoring finishes is absolutely incredible.

 

[nowhereman]

Haven’t averaged them all up, but doesn’t look like that is true.

NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest NHL League Averages including shots, saves, goal averages and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Actually, when I crunched the numbers based on the seasons they actually played in the NHL (removing Howe's retirement years and his WHA seasons), you're right. The average GPG during Crosby's era was 2.85 compared to Howe's era of 2.82. So pretty much a wash.

But, in that case, it makes the PPG aspect fairly easy to compare, since they largely played in comparable scoring environments.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Actually, when I crunched the numbers based on the seasons they actually played in the NHL (removing Howe's retirement years and his WHA seasons), you're right. The average GPG during Crosby's era was 2.85 compared to Howe's era of 2.82. So pretty much a wash.

But, in that case, it makes the PPG aspect fairly easy to compare, since they largely played in comparable scoring environments.

Thanks for doing that, I thought it looked close, on inspection, but was lazy (well also a little busy).
Ya his last year, when Hartford joined the NHL, looks like was his highest at 51/52 years old.

 

[Sasso09]

Bad argument, when the 6 teams expanded a lot of the league was watered down and expansion teams were punching bags for good players for a good period of time. So that top 27 forwards comment is ridiculous.

Nah it's not, his argument makes perfect sense and is supported analytically. I understand what you're trying to say and that it makes sense in your head but it's just false. You could revert the league back to 6 teams today and cut 80+% of the league and that 80% would now be considered "watered down" by the same parallel standard you're using.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Nah it's not, his argument makes perfect sense and is supported analytically. I understand what you're trying to say and that it makes sense in your head but it's just false. You could revert the league back to 6 teams today and cut 80+% of the league and that 80% would now be considered "watered down" by the same parallel standard you're using.

The overall talent pool is what matters most and it is multiple times larger today than it was back when 97% of the players were born in one country with a population of 14 million people.

 

[Crow]

I mean, isn't Crosby in the process of doing just that? He's certainly there this season, was there last as well... Unless you're actually talking points and not overall. I can't think of any season in Crosby's career where I wouldn't take him top 5. This year, the list is short. McDavid, Mackinnon, Draisaitl, Kucherov... That's it for me.

There have been many seasons in crosby’s career he was not a top five player in points or play. Like half of them.

 

[RooBicks]

There have been many seasons in crosby’s career he was not a top five player in points or play. Like half of them.

You think there have been "many" seasons in Crosby's career where he wasn't a top 5 forward? I'd challenge that, heartily. In my view, quality is a function of who GMs would take over him for one year. How many seasons in his career do you think he's not top-5 by that metric - i.e., the one that matters? Talking forwards as well, remember. He was top-5 last year in my view, no question.

EDIT: Let's go down the scoring list from last year, since I have to assume you're putting a lot of weight on that if that's your firm belief.

Who would you take over Crosby on that list for one year?
Kucherov: yes
MacKinnon: yes
McDavid: yes
Panarin: no
Pastrnak: no
Matthews: controversial perhaps, but no, not until he proves something.
Draisaitl: yes
Rantanen: no
Miller: no
Nylander: hell no
Kaprizov: no

Rounding it out with some other names:
Tkachuk: no
Point: no
Marner: no
Reinhart: no
Forsberg: no
Barkov: sorry, no
Eichel: nope to him too, at least last year, but probably this year too.

So worst case scenario, and I don't think it would be all that controversial, he would be top-6. I honestly don't think Matthews has yet made the case despite his prowess, but that's just me. Furthermore, I have little to no doubt that a majority of managers would have taken Crosby over Matthews for a playoff run last year. In any case, your premise is fundamentally in question, that much is clear. He continues to dominate play on a nightly basis, and though that appears to be slowly regressing, he's just playing on an old, bad team. If he were on the Rangers or something, he would have 20 more points in each of the last two years and your position would be being roundly mocked.

 

[Mrb1p]

Howe pretty easy imo. Being a top 5 forward in the league for 20 years is unheard of. Even Gretzky didn’t do that.

Its not unheard of since Sid is doing it.

Being top 5 on point is something else though.

How many top 5 PPG does Sid have?

 

[hamzarocks]

Its not unheard of since Sid is doing it.

Being top 5 on point is something else though.

How many top 5 PPG does Sid have?

Crosby was not a top 5 forward in below seasons

2018 - Around the 13th to 15th best player this year with Kopitar, Malkin, Giroux, Hall, Mack, Mcdavid, Gaudreau (rip) and Kucherov better forwards. Was a terrible season for Crosby, the worst of his career with a small 12 game sample size in playoffs where the pens lost in R2 used to prop the sesson up

2020 - Not a top 10 player in the league likely 15th to 20th best

2021 - Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Matthews and Marchand were better then him. Fringe top 10 player this year

2022 - Gaudreau (rip) , Huberdeau, Mcdavid, Matthews, Kucherov, Mackinnon, Kaprizov, Marner all better than him. Was the 15th to 20th best player in the league

2023 - 2025 - ~15th best player in the league these three years which is impressive at his age and pens sucking these three years but overall the big 4 forwards + pasta alone have been better each of these years.

Crosby year by year was a top 5 player about 13 times

2006 - 4th/5th
2007 - 1st
2008 - 2nd
2009 - 3rd
2010 - 2nd/3rd
2011 - 1st
2012 - 1st
2013 - 1st
2014- 1st
2015 - 4th/5th
2016 - 3rd/4th
2017 - 1st or 2nd
2018 - 12th/13th
2019 - 4th/5th
2020 - 13th to 15th
2021 - 9th/10th
2022 - 2025 - 12th to 15th

He was never worse than a top 5 player his first 12 years

 

[Mrb1p]

Crosby was not a top 5 forward in below seasons

2018 - Around the 13th to 15th best player this year with Kopitar, Malkin, Giroux, Hall, Mack, Mcdavid, Gaudreau (rip) and Kucherov better forwards. Was a terrible season for Crosby, the worst of his career with a small 12 game sample size in playoffs where the pens lost in R2 used to prop the sesson up

2020 - Not a top 10 player in the league likely 15th to 20th best

2021 - Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Matthews and Marchand were better then him. Fringe top 10 player this year

2022 - Gaudreau (rip) , Huberdeau, Mcdavid, Matthews, Kucherov, Mackinnon, Kaprizov, Marner all better than him. Was the 15th to 20th best player in the league

2023 - 2025 - ~15th best player in the league these three years which is impressive at his age and pens sucking these three years but overall the big 4 forwards + pasta alone have been better each of these years.

Crosby was a top 5 player in

2006 - 4th/5th
2007 - 1st
2008 - 2nd
2009 - 3rd
2010 - 2nd/3rd
2011 - 1st
2012 - 1st
2013 - 1st
2014- 1st
2015 - 4th/5th
2016 - 3rd/4th
2017 - 2nd
2019 - 4th/5th

He was never worse than a top 5 player his first 12 years

Matthews

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews

If you dont have the hart/lindsay/rocket winning Matthews ahead of Crosby in 2022 and 2021 when he was a finalist then you can say your a crosby fanboy/leaf hater lol

 

[koyvoo]

If you dont have the hart/lindsay/rocket winning Matthews ahead of Crosby in 2022 and 2021 when he was a finalist then you can say your a crosby fanboy/leaf hater lol

Good luck trying to win an argument against 3 dozen emoji’s.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Good luck trying to win an argument against 3 dozen emoji’s.

Even worse, it’s a Habs fan

 

[Crow]

Good luck trying to win an argument against 3 dozen emoji’s.

Guy had a f***ing psychotic episode when confronted with reality. I’m not counting em, but I think you even understated it.

 

[Mobiandi]

I’m never one to leap to Gretzky’s defense, but Crosby’s streak has a massive asterisk. It’s a nice little feat but barely a record

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Crosby was not a top 5 forward in below seasons

2018 - Around the 13th to 15th best player this year with Kopitar, Malkin, Giroux, Hall, Mack, Mcdavid, Gaudreau (rip) and Kucherov better forwards. Was a terrible season for Crosby, the worst of his career with a small 12 game sample size in playoffs where the pens lost in R2 used to prop the sesson up

2020 - Not a top 10 player in the league likely 15th to 20th best

2021 - Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Matthews and Marchand were better then him. Fringe top 10 player this year

2022 - Gaudreau (rip) , Huberdeau, Mcdavid, Matthews, Kucherov, Mackinnon, Kaprizov, Marner all better than him. Was the 15th to 20th best player in the league

2023 - 2025 - ~15th best player in the league these three years which is impressive at his age and pens sucking these three years but overall the big 4 forwards + pasta alone have been better each of these years.

Crosby year by year was a top 5 player about 13 times

2006 - 4th/5th
2007 - 1st
2008 - 2nd
2009 - 3rd
2010 - 2nd/3rd
2011 - 1st
2012 - 1st
2013 - 1st
2014- 1st
2015 - 4th/5th
2016 - 3rd/4th
2017 - 1st or 2nd
2018 - 12th/13th
2019 - 4th/5th
2020 - 13th to 15th
2021 - 9th/10th
2022 - 2025 - 12th to 15th

He was never worse than a top 5 player his first 12 years

Crosby was the best player in 15 and 16, you have him unjustifiably low

 

[Regal]

Crosby was the best player in 15 and 16, you have him unjustifiably low

If we’re talking about seasons I think that’s hard to justify. I think the majority still would have picked him as the best player in the game, but Price and Kane had better seasons at the very least.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby was the best player in 15 and 16, you have him unjustifiably low

No, he absolutely wasn't - which is why he didn't win the Hart or the Lindsay in '15 or '16 (nor was he even a Lindsey finalist in either season).

Price and Ovechkin were clearly better than Crosby in 2015 - and probably several other players.

Patrick Kane curb stomped Crosby in 2016. There is no case for Crosby over Kane in 2016.

 

[Legion34]

If Crosby actually was a ppg ie 82/70/56 pts minimum depending on games played in a season him.

Missing a bunch of games shouldn’t count. It’s a dumb record

 

[Caps8112]

While impressive that hes been able to do this and be so consistent for so long it has the hint of "dont forget about crosby" to it from his fans since Ovi just broke a major record. Dont recall anyone talking for the last 20 years about the day Crosby will tie 99 in consecutive ppg seasons. Yes, its neat and impressive but its not a high end record. its more in line with when the tv announcers need something to talk about for a segment so they invent some stat by sample size or some obscurity. Crosby doesnt need to be propped up in this way. His achievements speak for themselves

 

[Golden_Jet]

Being top 5 for 20 seasons,
Sid’s record gets pulled down a bit, by 4 seasons of 41 games or less, one being 22.

 

[surixon]

You seem confused. I was not asking how many games are in a full NHL season. I'm saying a season is synonymous with a league year. And in the season you were talking about, Crosby put up over a point per game.

He did not put up PPG over a full season, and no one claimed he did. You're arguing against a point that no one made.

Also if we were ro apply that standard Gretzky doesn't have 19 ppg plus years, Lemieux 15 etc.

 

[Toby91ca]

While impressive that hes been able to do this and be so consistent for so long it has the hint of "dont forget about crosby" to it from his fans since Ovi just broke a major record. Dont recall anyone talking for the last 20 years about the day Crosby will tie 99 in consecutive ppg seasons. Yes, its neat and impressive but its not a high end record. its more in line with when the tv announcers need something to talk about for a segment so they invent some stat by sample size or some obscurity. Crosby doesnt need to be propped up in this way. His achievements speak for themselves

1 - Crosby's ppg steak has been a topic of discussion for a few years at least....it's not something people came up with because OV was about to break the goals record so people could be sure not to forget about Crosby
2 - It absolutely isn't as significant as the all-time goal record, no questions, BUT, BUT......
3 - this thread is about Crosby's 20 season ppg streak vs. Howe's streak....what does OV have to do with any of this, aren't you potentially jumping in with OV comments and basically doing what you seem to suggest others might be doing with respect to Crosby?

 

[surixon]

Yea but the fact is he didn't. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

I agree he definitely would have, but he didn't.

82 pts is "ppg". If you play a fraction of the season it's not the same.

Obviously in shortened seasons it's the amount of games your team played.

Thats fine, but then Gretzky didn't have a 19 year record to begin with as he missed the mark in 1993.

Lemieux missed in 1994, 01, and 02 by that logic.

Simply put the NHL record books recognize Crosby's record by the same criteria that was afforded to the other hall of fame players.

 

[Nathaniel]

No, he absolutely wasn't - which is why he didn't win the Hart or the Lindsay in '15 or '16 (nor was he even a Lindsey finalist in either season).

Price and Ovechkin were clearly better than Crosby in 2015 - and probably several other players.

Patrick Kane curb stomped Crosby in 2016. There is no case for Crosby over Kane in 2016.

The funny thing about these years where ovechkin is "clearly better than crosby he still always gets outscored by him.