Creatine

[Adriatic]

May as well do steroids. It's horrible advice, but creatine is absolute junk. Creatine will make you gain a bunch of water weight and is almost as hard on your body systems as roids. If you don't care about your health, you're better off with steroids.

No that's horrible advice..Are you kidding me that Creatine is almost as hard on your body as steroids!! That's one of the most idiotic things I ever heard..freaking clueless!!

 

[MikeD]

Under the right cicumstances it can have an adverse health affect. Its not like taking an Advil for a headache. People should be VERY leary of telling anyone its safe and harmless unless they are aware of the health history of the poster. You could contribute to serious harm coming to someone because you are not fully aware.

 

[MikeD]

Does Taurine have any effects?

It has been shown to cause PERMANENT damage to the central nervouse system when used LONG term at doses over the 600% US RDA. This would equate to 4 cans of redbull daily for about 6 months. Additionally, the cheaper sources for Taurine is from ANIMAL BRAIN TISSUE.....I strongly urge any youth player to avoid taurine containing products. You are directly affecting your CNS by putting it into HYPER mode.

 

[2x4*]

It has been shown to cause PERMANENT damage to the central nervouse system when used LONG term at doses over the 600% US RDA. This would equate to 4 cans of redbull daily for about 6 months. Additionally, the cheaper sources for Taurine is from ANIMAL BRAIN TISSUE.....I strongly urge any youth player to avoid taurine containing products. You are directly affecting your CNS by putting it into HYPER mode.

Vitamin water says the exact opposite!!!

 

[nyrhockey00]

i took some stuff called cell-tech for football season and it blew me up, added 30+ to my bench press, gotta use it right though

 

[Lundmark17]

I'm glad some people have been on here and defended creatine because it has really gotten a slammed by some people here.

As some have pointed out creatine just like any other supplement, is just that a supplement. It, or any other supplement, cannot replace very good nutrition, hard work at the gym and proper rest. It can help though.

People need to educate themselves on the effects of certain supplements, and no going to GNC and listening to a guy working on commission trying to sell you the latest MuscleTech product isn't educating yourself. I would say at most you should take 5 grams of creatine a day. I personally wouldn't bother with the whole loading phase because who really needs to take 20 to 30 grams of creatine a day for one week? Your body will get the its saturation point eventually with the 5 gram doses and you won't be filled up with water like the loading phase often causes.

If you do take creatine make sure you drink lots of water and when you do take it take it with a high-glycemic drink like apple juice or grape juice to spike your insulin which helps it get into your system.

If you don't want to take creatine no worries, I have and many others, have made great gains without it. Other supplements I would recommend are a multi-vitamin because most people do not get nearly enough nutrients through their diet, protein powder (such as Dymatize Elite, Optimum Nutrition, or Iso-Flex). After that you could try a fish or flax oil and maybe a BCAA.

Good luck with the training and make sure you get ample rest (overtraining can really set you back).

 

[Grave77digger]

If you don't want to take creatine no worries, I have and many others, have made great gains without it. Other supplements I would recommend are a multi-vitamin because most people do not get nearly enough nutrients through their diet, protein powder (such as Dymatize Elite, Optimum Nutrition, or Iso-Flex). After that you could try a fish or flax oil and maybe a BCAA.

best advice yet.

 

[ctrules]

i was just wondering something about how often to take creatine. I usually work out 4 days a week with weights (M/W/Th/SAT) Should i take creatine every day of the week or only on the days i workout.

also is it best to take some before i workout and some after or take all 5g at once.

finally, can i mix it wiht orange juice or water? what about gatorade?

thanks for the help.

 

[MikeD]

as people have already said. You can take it as a morning dose. Its not something that acts on its own. You build it into the body so that when your bodys chemical factory begins operation it can exploit its waste byproducts. ATP is broken down, losing a molecule. creatin then goes to work by giving up one to regenerate the ATP, replenishing the fuel source. I suspect that if you want a bigger bang for your buck you would do any loading dosage POST work out when the body is at its peak ability to replenish ATP stores. the 45 minutes or so after a stren work out is peak for carb/atp replacement.

 

[Hank19]

May as well do steroids. It's horrible advice, but creatine is absolute junk. Creatine will make you gain a bunch of water weight and is almost as hard on your body systems as roids. If you don't care about your health, you're better off with steroids.

If you aren't already a bag of muscles than you don't need any supplements (expect maybe straight protein powder) to make phenominal gains in weight training. I just added 30lbs to my max bench in the last 6 weeks without supplements. Just learn to work out properly and expect to work hard. Remember, there's no way to cheat ("get an edge") without negative consequences.

No offense but this is the most ignorant statement I've ever read. First off, steroids and creatine are two COMPLETELY different things. One deals with hormones while another enhances a natural chemical in your body to build muscle.
Secondly, the advancement in creatine supplements over the past few years has been tremendous. Anyone that takes the proper Creatine supp. should NEVER have water retention.

Case in point is myself. I started taking a micronised form of creatine about two years ago. Since then I've gained close to 20 pounds of muscle, I'm more ripped than ever and I have more energy.

If you go to www.abcbodybuilding.com there is a HUGE section on the intake and benefits of creatine. There have been more than one certified physician on that site that has dispelled all the myths about how horrible creatine is.
As long as you watch the intake (no more than 10g a day) you will be absolutely fine.
Trust me. I've never been in better shape in my life and I am the furthest thing from 'puffy' you would ever see in your life.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that taking Creatine is hardly 'cheating'. Is it cheating if you consumed more protein in your diet to gain more muscle mass? Creatine is no different. Your body naturally produces creatine to help muclse growth. The only thing is, the body can handle a lot more creatine than it naturally creates.
It's like anything else in life, everything in moderation. Carbs are good for the body. But 1000 g of them aren't. Beer is great for the heart. Doctors actually recommend one per day. 50 per day will kill you. See where I"m getting at here.
And again, I cannot stress the difference between steriods and creatine enough. For someone to say the two are the same, you might as well tell someone that there's no difference between the sun and moon.

 

[MikeD]

Nothing you take in is totally safe for everyone. Even something as simple as Calcium can cause problems(very short trerm) for some such as fluid build up around the heart, shut it down and Bone spurs(long term). Any time you make alterations to the bodies chemical factory, there will be known and unknown affects. The safety of long-term creatine use is uncertain. A recent case report in the Lancet (April 25, 1998) describes a young man whose kidney problems worsened when he took creatine. There have also been three fatalities among college wrestlers using creatine. Whether the supplement contributed to the deaths remains unclear.

http://www.ergogenics.org/71.html for one such horror story...

Instead of taking creatine, youngsters should go in for a program of weight training, which can safely improve performance by 30% to 40%.(ACSM) Sound advice considering no one will say for sure what the long term affects can be. There are reasons why many Countries in the world have placed a total ban on creatine supp. sales. Cigerettes were said to be not harmful, too. Asbestos was a marvel of the ages....see where I am going with this one?

Also consider that Creatine has been tested and proven to not increase aerobic performance, its hardly a tool usefull for hockey conditioning. Is the short term gain worth facing the unknown future after use?

PLEASE USE CARE IN CALLING SOMETHING SAFE. Should this posters liver not be able to process the creatine....OMG and you would be contributing to the situation. Should they have an undetected renal condition...OMG again.....

 

[Doctor Hook]

That stuff can give you kidney stones.I don't back it.

 

[RangersMoogle]

Proper protein intake and hard work > suppliments.

Stop trying to take shortcuts dude, there aren't any.

 

[MikeD]

"As long as you watch the intake (no more than 10g a day) you will be absolutely fine."

The best doctor on the planet cant make such a promise....2 years and 20 LBS of muscle? That is easily gained with out CREATINE. How much money have you spent on it? Hank, you dont even know if your past use isnt bringing you to an early grave. The most educated Doctors on the planet cant tell you either but I am sure that more easily come by ripped body is well worth the risks your taking with your LIFE... Sarcasm in case you missed that. Its real easy to make such broad statements but let any one of these PRO CREATINE posters have to provide contact information to take a legal responsibility for thier words...watch how fast they recant or shut the heck up.

 

[Hank19]

"As long as you watch the intake (no more than 10g a day) you will be absolutely fine."

The best doctor on the planet cant make such a promise....2 years and 20 LBS of muscle? That is easily gained with out CREATINE. How much money have you spent on it? Hank, you dont even know if your past use isnt bringing you to an early grave. The most educated Doctors on the planet cant tell you either but I am sure that more easily come by ripped body is well worth the risks your taking with your LIFE... Sarcasm in case you missed that. Its real easy to make such broad statements but let any one of these PRO CREATINE posters have to provide contact information to take a legal responsibility for thier words...watch how fast they recant or shut the heck up.

You don't know my body very well. I'm naturally very thin. I've been working out for 11 years now. During that time, like most weight lifters, I had wonderful gains at the beginning. But studies have shown that your body has it's greatest gains up to 25 years of age. I'm 32 now. Gaining pure muscle mass after a while is a lot harder than it is at the beginning. You have no idea how frustrating it is to bust your tail for over an hour every day in the gym and people still don't notice that you work out while wearing regular clothes.
I bench over 315 lbs and yet I look like anyone else on the street. That's frustrating. I'm not asking to look like a prime Arnold but I wanted to add more muscle to my frame. And Creatine gave me that boost.
I understand what you're saying though. You have to be careful with what you're doing.
And I also agree that consuming more protein is a better solution. But for whatever reason that didn't work for me. I took shakes, made sure I ate egg whites, fat free bacon, steak, chicken, nuts, anything you can think of that is high in protein and it didn't do anything for me. Part of the problem is I have a bad stomach. I can't eat a lot of foods without them being ejected an hour later in a very uncomfortable way.

Anyway, I would definately suggest for anyone that's thinking about taking Creatine to go to www.abcbodybuilding.com. There are some excellent resources there regarding Creatine. Including 15 year studies on the stuff.
That's what I did as I'm a complete paranoid freak when it comes to taking any kind of suppliments. I don't even like taking Vitamins as I prefer to do that through natural means of fruits and veggies.

 

[brianscot]

My personal experience with creatine has been very positive. I can work out longer and harder with less downtime. Just drink a lot of water and eat right.

This matches my creatine experience as well. Drink lotsssssssss of water or cramping can become an issue.

Creatine wont change your genetic potential or make your more nutritionally disciplined, but it does permit me to produce 2 or 3 more reps with a given weight than I can normally perform.

 

[EmptyNetter]

As usual I agree wholeheartedly with MikeD. I've never taken Creatine and haven't read up on the subject, but I've been around long enough to see the latest revolutionary product become the health scare du jour. Even the doctors/biochemists who develop these products don't know what the long term effects are. In 15-20 years the picture is a lot clearer. All the psychiatric or performance enhancing drugs that are being advertised on tv? I see some very big class action suits in the not so distant future. Anybody hear of Phen Phen?

Bottom line is that people should know that everything has a side effect. If you start using a substance you should be willing to accept whatever comes along -- now and in the future.

 

[Tinordi24*]

Creatine doesnt make muscule but adds water weight to give muscles room to grow. If you are on creatine, with the water weight, you will look 10lbs heavier and muscles look fuller. It does give you a boost in the gym.

DRINK TONS OF WATER!!!

Creatine definitely dehydrates you (especially when loading) so I am not sure I'd recommend it for hockey players.

I played before while on creatine and it really bogs me down.

Also you will probably get some stomach cramps from time to time.

 

[Tinordi24*]

thanks for the all the responses guys, it been really helpful.

After reading some stuff im still a bit confused. I think half of the people ive talked to say creatine is awful and the other half say its great.

Basically if all creatine does is add water to your muscles so you look huge and make you gain weight then i think its really not for me. I mean im already 6-2 190 so gaining more weight and muscle mass isn't super important.

On the other hand ive read on some bodybuilding sites that it will not only increase your muscle mass but help improve your fast twitch muscles fibers and really make you faster. Ive gathered that a lot of football players use it and it really helps them bulk up while also keeping or improving their 40 yrd dash times. I mean if I can get faster than I am no AND weight 200 pounds it would help my game so much.

Just to give you guys some more info about me im 17 and play D1 prep hockey in new england for a pretty good team. Im a d-man and am prolly a boarderline D1/D3 college player. I've been training a lot over the summer so i am in really good shape right now. My main goal is really to become a faster skater and be stronger on the ice to hit more. I feel if i can do this i have a very good chance to do D1.

as of now im still really undecided whether or not to use it. Im either gonna take a low dose only before and after a work out and see how it goes or not take it at all. Im gonna talk to my coach tomorrow and the trainer at the school and see what they say. The thing that is really making want to take it is that ive seen kids at my school who play football really improve their speed/strength tremendously. What keeping me away is that creatine doesn’t seem to be that popular with hockey players (I could be completely wrong but it seems to be that way to me).

Thanks for the help.

You are very young and your body is ready to add some serious weight.

At your age you are basically on steroids (with the amount of natural test you produce) so its essential to eat a ton of protein if you want to chuck on some weight.

The general rule of thumb is to eat 1.5-2g of protein per pound you WANT to weigh (in your case that is at least 300g of protein per day). You split it up so that you take no more than 50g every 2-3 hours.

The trouble with playing hockey is that all that skating actually makes you lose weight. Aerobic exercise can be catabolic and does not discrimate when it comes to burning fat OR muscle.

 

[Hank19]

As usual I agree wholeheartedly with MikeD. I've never taken Creatine and haven't read up on the subject, but I've been around long enough to see the latest revolutionary product become the health scare du jour. Even the doctors/biochemists who develop these products don't know what the long term effects are. In 15-20 years the picture is a lot clearer. All the psychiatric or performance enhancing drugs that are being advertised on tv? I see some very big class action suits in the not so distant future. Anybody hear of Phen Phen?

Bottom line is that people should know that everything has a side effect. If you start using a substance you should be willing to accept whatever comes along -- now and in the future.

Creatine has been around since 1985. A tonne of tests are still being performed on it. So far, it appears safe with only certain individuals showing some mild 'symtoms'.

Also, I've never had any cramping or dehydration.

On the other hand ive read on some bodybuilding sites that it will not only increase your muscle mass but help improve your fast twitch muscles fibers and really make you faster.

I don't know about that. But I will tell you this, since I've been on creatine I've never been faster (off ice).
I don't know if it's because I've gained more muscle to my legs or if it's because of what you read. But at 32 years old I am probobly one of the fastest ball players in the league.

 

[ArchieIsGod]

For someone to say the two are the same, you might as well tell someone that there's no difference between the sun and moon.

now that you mention it...

 

[MikeD]

Hank,

PLEASE stop worrying about what other people do or do not notice about you. It doesnt matter. Why should it matter to you that anyone around you notices what YOU are doing? Most people are very unobservant. Test yourself...next tiem you go to the gym...before you walk in the door just stop and turn around. Look around you and count the number of permanent items that have been there that you NEVER noticed before. What other people do, dont, do think, dont think...are reasons to risk your long term health. Another tip...no matter how hard you work out, your always going to think your arms look small etc etc etc. Its the nature of the sickness.

Saccarine was on hte market for a VERY long time and it was proven to be very bad for you. How long has Nutrasweet been on hte market? Yet every doctor will tell pregnant women to avoid it and to limit or prevent children under age 12 from having it as they dont know what long term affects it could have.

I have no issue with someone telling of their success with the stuff. Just DONT say what you nor any other on the planet can say and that its 100% safe. Just as I dont know your body well, you do not know the posters. Your words could result in serious harm to a young kid...Also, do you expect to get a 100% unbiased opinion regarding creatine use from a bodybuilding site? There are many cases of serious complications where the Doctors believe creatine use was the cause. Is it proven? No, but is it disproven either?

 

[The Tikkanen]

I'm 33, work for Fed Ex so my legs and body take a beating every day. I have been taking Creatine (EAS Betagen) for awhile now before and after I play ice hockey, when I work out or after an extremely busy day at work. I have been able to lift heavier wieghts with a quicker recovery time and have none of the side effects the others had posted. I try to eat somewhat healthy but with my schedule and the amount of calories and stress I go though everyday that is not always possible. I also take a multi vitamin every morning in case I'm missing anything. I think the people who had the harsh side effects may have been lying as most do about using steroids. Creatine is a legal supplement and as far as I know the only side effect is the water weight. I would like to know if the NFL, NHL, NBA and MLB all allow their players to use it.

 

[MikeD]

a quote from "medscape"

"Creatine
Creatine is an amino acid compound produced naturally in the body.[15,48,91,105,106] Enzymes that synthesize creatine can be found in the liver, kidney, and pancreas. Creatine is synthesized from the essential amino acids arginine and methionine and the nonessential amino acid glycine, and it is also a product of muscle metabolism. In addition, creatine is obtained in the diet, largely from meat and fish. The vast majority of creatine in the body is stored in skeletal muscle where it is partially converted to creatine phosphate. There are several mechanisms whereby muscle cells produce adenosine triphosphate (ATP), which provides the energy for muscle contraction. In one biochemical pathway, the phosphorylation of adenosine diphosphate (ADP) to ATP by creatine phosphate provides initial, quick energy needs as demonstrated by the following equation[56]:

ADP + Creatine Phosphate Creatine Kinase ATP + Creatine


The amount of ATP generated via this pathway is dependent on the initial concentration of creatine phosphate. Hence, the underlying concept of using creatine as a performance-enhancing supplement is to increase the muscle stores of creatine and creatine phosphate for producing and replenishing ATP. However, the above biochemical pathway only provides the initial energy for the first few seconds of muscle contraction.

Creatine, taken to improve athletic performance, has become one of the most popular dietary supplements (excluding vitamin and mineral supplements) among both amateur and professional athletes.[26,47,107] It has also become popular with middle school and high school athletes for a variety of sports, including cheerleading.[108] Promoters of creatine supplementation claim that it increases the production of energy, promotes the growth and strength of skeletal muscle, reduces recovery time, increases stamina, and buffers lactic acid build up. Although creatine is not considered an anabolic agent, some of these claims -- directly or indirectly -- have been supported by controlled studies in specific and limited exercises. Creatine supplementation has most consistently been shown to be an aid in brief (< 30-60 seconds), intermittent, high-burst, anaerobic exercise, which would benefit sprinters in running, cycling, swimming, and rowing, and perhaps power events such as weight lifting and throwing.[15,48,109,110] Subjects with low creatine stores (e.g., vegetarians or low-protein diets) may gain the most benefit from creatine supplementation.[111] This may be one explanation as to why some subjects have shown improvement in performance while others have not. Furthermore, trained and conditioned athletes, who already may have maximized their creatine stores and work output, may not gain significant additional benefit from supplementation, but this has yet to be elucidated.

The ergogenic effect of creatine on endurance or aerobic exercises (e.g., long distance running, swimming, cycling, rowing) is less clear and inconsistent.[48,105,112] These findings can be partially attributed to the understanding that other biochemical pathways are involved in generating energy, while creatine phosphate becomes a minor source of ATP production after 10-20 seconds of maximal anaerobic work.[15,48] With respect to promoting the growth and strength of skeletal muscle, creatine may indirectly have this effect by increasing the productivity of weight or resistance training. Because of the interest in and popularity of creatine, additional controlled research studies would be beneficial to help explain its mechanisms of action and refine the role of creatine as an ergogenic aid.

The most common adverse effects reported to be associated with creatine include fluid retention and weight gain. These effects may actually be detrimental in some sporting events. Additionally, creatine supplementation has been shown to result in an increase in anterior compartment pressure in the lower leg, with some study subjects experiencing lower extremity pain or tightness in the lower leg during exercise.[113] Other anecdotal adverse effects that have been reported include dehydration, emesis, diarrhea, fatigue, muscle cramps, myopathy, polymyositis, fatigue, migraine, renal impairment, rash, and dyspnea.[48,91] There is also the possibility that with supplementation, the body will downregulate the endogenous production of creatine.

Currently, creatine is not banned by the NCAA, WADA, or other sports-governing bodies; however, many of these organizations urge caution because of the unknown long-term effects of creatine use. Despite the cautions, a substantial number of sports teams in the NFL, MLB, the National Basketball Association (NBA), and the National Hockey League (NHL) have reportedly supplied their players with creatine.[114]"

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Creatine IS NOT that bad. I took it when I was 18 and gained about 15 pounds in a month, working out really only 4 times a week. As long as you drink a lot of water around the times you consume the stuff, its pretty harmless. I haven't felt any negative affects or anything like some posters here have claimed. Different strokes I suppose.