Craig Button's 2010 re-draft

[DG]

they did 09 right after...

Oh my bad, wasn't actually watching.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

You realize he would play 3rd or 4th line minutes and almost no PP if he played for the Bruins..

Yeah, except the Bruins did have a rookie winger who played. His name was Brad Marchand, and he seemed to have a knack for coming down the wing with speed, driving past the defense, and then scoring.

You know, all the things that Hall does. Except Hall is faster, bigger and more skilled.

So yeah, Hall would not have been buried on the fourth line in Boston.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

Why use last years consensus rankings? Why not use buttons? After all this re-draft is his opinion. Also things can change in a year. Not only is it ceiling but also the risk. Skinner is a sure thing now therefore his ranking moves up. And a player like Connolly who had not progressed as expected drops down the list. I think it's pretty simple and few people are using their heads to understand the logic. Seems people would rather bash a guy who is more respected in the hockey world than themselves.

I don't agree with all of the rankings but opinions differ and He knows more than me.

The thing is, regardless of your opinion on Button, the whole idea is dumb: let's re-draft last year's draft but largely ignore anything that happened in the last twelve months and base it all on one guy's opinion from 14 months ago.

A 'A look back at the 2010 Draft' special, where they follow-up on the top prospects' progress and look ahead to where they'll be next season would be have been a far better use of 22 minutes of airtime.

 

[hototogisu]

He might actually be the only person in the world who would pick Jarred Tinordi before Mikael Granlund. And he even thinks that it isnt close.

I'm a Habs fan and even at my most homeriffic, I can't think fathom a world in which Tinordi should be ranked ahead of Granlund or Nino, unless we're ranking by height. Makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[dougiebrown]

I wish he had expanded this re-draft to include players that were NOT chosen in the first round. Jon Merril would definitely be a first round pick.

 

[mohare]

well this is the guy that released St. Louis, so what do you expect.

 

[nomorekids]

i just dont understand how tim erixon so far surpasses david rundblad? same team, same age, half the points. his team didn't rely on him as much as rundblad. albeit, i've only seen 4 games through streaming, maybe i missed something in the other 60?

and ellis over kulikov is assinine.

In what way? Because Kulikov was able to make a terrible Florida team? Would he have been able to make Nashville? Absolutely not.

Bashing Ellis\predicting that he'll bust is a popular game around here, but there's still plenty of reasons to think that he'll be as good\better than Kulikov, along with any of the other players that people are bemoaning him being ranked above.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Yeah, except the Bruins did have a rookie winger who played. His name was Brad Marchand, and he seemed to have a knack for coming down the wing with speed, driving past the defense, and then scoring.

You know, all the things that Hall does. Except Hall is faster, bigger and more skilled.

So yeah, Hall would not have been buried on the fourth line in Boston.

Not too sure about that part, Seguin's skill package looks every bit as good, in this case it's a question of unlocking said skill package on a nightly basis. As for speed, please, did you not see how ridiculously quick Seguin is at top speed?

 

[missinthejets]

Yeah, Hall was definitely with better players more consistently, and more importantly, he got consistent PP time and was allowed to grow in an offensive role.

is PP time on Edmontons powerplay after Whitney got hurt really all that much of a bonus? Cause once Whitney was out of the lineup that PP fell off the map entirely.

 

[theIceWookie]

Yeah, Hall was definitely with better players more consistently, and more importantly, he got consistent PP time and was allowed to grow in an offensive role.

I think the entire projection thing is important to remember. Just because Hall, who was claimed by even most Seguin fans as more NHL ready, had a better first year doesn't mean that Seguin can't catch up and overlap him at some point.

Seguin's raw skills are immense, and I think that raw is the key word. His skating ability is ridiculous, his wrist shot is as good as they come, and he has the vision of a franchise centreman. He was very tentative in his first season, some of it due to lack of readiness, some of it due to the coaching style of Boston, which demanded he play a two-way game that he wasn't fully comfortable with until the playoffs. I will say this: while he did not produce consistently in the playoffs, that second period in game 2 against Tampa showcased how dominant he can be, all four points showed a different strength that could, in time, combine to make him the player he can be.

One thing I disagree with the Button thing isn't putting him over Hall, it's more the whole concept of re-drafting after only one and two years, respectively, with the 2009 draft. These kids have only turned 19 and 20: give them some time to grow before doing something like this.

Seguin has a very high ceiling and while I disagree with you that he should have gone higher. There are more than one way to argue the points being made. Hall played with some better linemates but scored at a 30 goal pace against top line competition. Seguin didn't play with the best linemates but he didn't have top shutdown competition to play against. Ultimately he has a high ceiling but Hall's is higher. I think the biggest thing people are missing is the end point. Button made a lot of talk about the solid end point and how that makes one player higher than another, which is a wrong thought.

However what I think was most idiotic about Button was his lack of consistency. One player jumped because he had a higher end point than another player but another player jumper because he had a great junior year. It just lacked cohesion and proper logic.

The biggest thing that stood out and annoyed me was the explanations. They were just moronic. He essentially had Seguin above Hall because of two playoff games. The rest of the season mattered not because Seguin had two really good games. The rest of the playoffs mattered not, but he focused on only those two games. His explanations were just beyond moronic. I have no problem with him making risky/unpopular picks if he could give proper explanations but he didn't. At all.

Like come on, his explanation for Hall was he needed a center. WTF kind of explanation is that?

 

[Micklebot]

Not too sure about that part, Seguin's skill package looks every bit as good, in this case it's a question of unlocking said skill package on a nightly basis. As for speed, please, did you not see how ridiculously quick Seguin is at top speed?

I think he was comparing Hall to Marchand not Seguin, to show that Hall would not be buried on the fourth line in Boston...

 

[Wheatking]

is PP time on Edmontons powerplay after Whitney got hurt really all that much of a bonus? Cause once Whitney was out of the lineup that PP fell off the map entirely.

Exactly. Between Whitney being hurt, never playing with Hemsky while he was healthy(best goal scorer with best passer. Makes sense to me) and then just having a terrible system in general, the powerplay wasn't much of an advantage for Hall this season. He had 11 PP points this year and 3 of them came in one game.

The positive way of looking at it is that Hall had 14 ES goals and 31 ES points in 65 games....which is an 18 goal/39 point pace. Had he been able to produce some more on the powerplay he may have scored at about a 65 point pace.

It should also be noted that Hall also took some time to adjust to the NHL. It's not like he was the same player at game 1, 10 or 20 that he was at game 40, 50 or 65.

First 20 games- 4 goals and 9 points
Prorated: 82 games- 16 goals and 37 points

Next 20 games- 8 goals and 14 points
Prorated: 82 games- 33 goals and 57 points

Final 25 games- 10 goals and 19 points
Prorated: 82 games- 33 goals and 62 points

It really wasn't even close. He was much more dominant after he got his feet wet...and again, he put up those points playing against the oppositions best players on a line with another rookie and a veteran that is better suited for a good team's 3rd line.

 

[Felix Unger]

Once I read that Button thinks JT would be better as a winger, I know he hadn't watched JT, who has been in the NHL for two years, play much at all. He's clearly a center, and his little time on the wing was an utter failure. All Isles fans know this.

So, I expect the same is probably true for most of the players on the redraft. Uneven viewings rule. Hence, gahbage.

Cheers,

Dan-o

 

[K1984]

Once I read that Button thinks JT would be better as a winger, I know he hadn't watched JT, who has been in the NHL for two years, play much at all. He's clearly a center, and his little time on the wing was an utter failure. All Isles fans know this.

So, I expect the same is probably true for most of the players on the redraft. Uneven viewings rule. Hence, gahbage.

Cheers,

Dan-o

This kind of thing is what makes me believe he doesn't even watch that much hockey. Things like boosting Campbell up his re-draft rankings after having an awful first season in Windsor. Or somehow putting Tinordi up to 8 after what has been an average season at best for him on most accounts. When I look at that the conclusion I come to is he hasn't seen these players even play.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

What do you want Hall to do about that? He was drafted 1st overall for a reason..and there's a reason Edmonton is drafting 1st overall again this year. One player does not make a team.

Seguin did absolutely nothing to prove he should be picked over Hall. People complain Seguin wasn't given ice time or linemates? That's because you have to earn them. He simply wasn't ready to compete regularly on an NHL roster while all signs point to Hall easily cracking the Bruins roster and being put in top 6 situations.

I disagreed with many of Button's choices, and don't even think he should have moved Seguin in front of Hall based on what happened in 2010-11, but your comment is ridiculous.

EDM was a last place team, which is why Hall was given free reign, a ton of icetime and PP opportunities. What exactly were all these "signs" that he would have cracked the Top 6 of a playoff team in Boston?

If the positions had been reversed at the draft, Seguin would have gotten a ton of TOI in EDM and probably scored 20+ goals, and Hall would have gotten the exact same treatment in Boston that Seguin did. His TOI would have been limited, the emphasis would have been turning him onto a 3 zone player, and he would have been punished for the same rookie mistakes Seguin made.

It will be a few years before anyone can determine who was the better pick. They were handled differently because they were in completely different situations, and neither approach was wrong. As a B's fan, I would like to think that having the luxury of teaching Seguin to be a more complete player will pay dividends down the road and make him the better all-around player eventually, but who knows?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Yeah, except the Bruins did have a rookie winger who played. His name was Brad Marchand, and he seemed to have a knack for coming down the wing with speed, driving past the defense, and then scoring.

You know, all the things that Hall does. Except Hall is faster, bigger and more skilled.

So yeah, Hall would not have been buried on the fourth line in Boston.

You obviously don't watch Boston much.

Marchand made his bones on the 4th line as an energy guy and chipped in a few goals. He also played extensively on the PK and is a much more responsible player defensively than Hall or Seguin. His defensive play was why he was rewarded and given a shot at playing with Bergeron and Recchi, not his offensive skills.

If you think Hall would have been treated any different form Seguin, you don't know much about Julien and his system.


ps Plus Marchand is 23, not 19 and honed his game for almost two years in the AHL...apples and oranges.

 

[airforceones25]

Cam Fowler anyone? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, YES PLEASE!

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Cam Fowler anyone? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, YES PLEASE!

While some of Button's changes were off the wall, I'm not sure how anybody could argue with Fowler moving up to #3?? The guy was awesome as an 18 yr old and was rated in the Top 5 prior to the Draft, before he inexplicably fell to the Ducks.

 

[Arpeggio]

There's no doubt in my mind that Hall would've put up huge numbers in Boston. No way is he scratched in round one. Yes both players were adjusting to the NHL, but once Hall hit his stride, he simply didn't disappear like Seguin does. He makes things happen every game, and damn near every shift. He would've been a big time contributer in a playoff run, moreso than Seguin.

That's not to say that Seguin is a poor player, he's obviously very talented, it's just that Hall was leaps and bounds more ready for the NHL last season. IMO of course.

 

[thrillhous]

Hilarious for so many reasons.

 

[Addison Rae]

Really Hedman over Tavares, Seguin over Hall, Leddy over Rundblad, Gudbranson not making the top 10 while Tinordi does

 

[GloryDaze4877]

There's no doubt in my mind that Hall would've put up huge numbers in Boston. No way is he scratched in round one. Yes both players were adjusting to the NHL, but once Hall hit his stride, he simply didn't disappear like Seguin does. He makes things happen every game, and damn near every shift. He would've been a big time contributer in a playoff run, moreso than Seguin.

That's not to say that Seguin is a poor player, he's obviously very talented, it's just that Hall was leaps and bounds more ready for the NHL last season. IMO of course.

I guess we will never know...

It's good to know that in your mind, Hall would have put up huge numbers in Boston. Unfortunately, in Claude Julien's mind, rookies, particularly ones that need to be better defensively, must earn their TOI by showing they are not going to cost the team with defensive zone errors.

Don't see how Hall would have put up huge numbers while he was busy learning to be a complete player?

 

[OilerTyler]

Are Boston fans just assuming that Renney let Hall make as many defensive mistakes as he wanted without any repercussions?

Hall was benched multiple times.

 

[Korpse]

Fact is hall had a better opportunity in Edmonton and he played very well this season but that doesn't mean seguin won't be better in the future.

 

[Kaoz*]

Yeah, except the Bruins did have a rookie winger who played. His name was Brad Marchand, and he seemed to have a knack for coming down the wing with speed, driving past the defense, and then scoring.

You know, all the things that Hall does. Except Hall is faster, bigger and more skilled.

So yeah, Hall would not have been buried on the fourth line in Boston.

Who's been playing pro for 3 years now, in a system that mirrors Bostons. Hall wouldn't have broke into Boston's top 6, not because of a lack of skill but because his skill like every other 18 year olds is very raw and unrefined.

It's not a slight on Hall, but his defensive game and positioning are no where near up to par enough to play in Boston's top 6. Marchand had 2 years in Providence and near a full year in the NHL before he managed the feat.