Craig Button List Spring 2025

[AlternateSideParking]

21U = 21 and under, U21 = under 21. Regardless, it's semantics. My point stands, and that is Canadians are indeed having a strong wave. If you disagree based on the same data, that's up to you, I posted the screenshots that I was referring to.

I’ve been analyzing every draft ever conducted for the better part of the last 11 years and I can tell you the current crop of young Canadian stars is average at best, specifically when compared to the historic groups from the early 1990s, the mid-2000s, and the first half of the 2010s.

I could be mistaken, but I can’t think of one Canadian drafted since 2018 who is averaging a point per game or better in the NHL. At the last WJC, not one Canadian finished in top-30 scoring — a first in tournament history.

The 2021 draft is the only draft Canada can really brag about. The 2004 and 2005 birth years failed miserably at the WJC and those top kids appear to be overhyped until proven otherwise, Bedard included. Only a portion of Canadians drafted within the top five since 2018 have been able to show they have star potential. Lots of middling production.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I’ve been analyzing every draft ever conducted for the better part of the last 11 years and I can tell you the current crop of young Canadian stars is average at best, specifically when compared to the historic groups from the early 1990s, the mid-2000s, and the first half of the 2010s.

I could be mistaken, but I can’t think of one Canadian drafted since 2018 who is averaging a point per game or better in the NHL. At the last WJC, not one Canadian finished in top-30 scoring — a first in tournament history.

The 2021 draft is the only draft Canada can really brag about. The 2004 and 2005 birth years failed miserably at the WJC and those top kids appear to be overhyped until proven otherwise, Bedard included. Only a portion of Canadians drafted within the top five since 2018 have been able to show they have star potential. Lots of middling production.

Do you all top Canadians should spend a year or two in the NCAA to reverse this trend?

 

[Peasy]

I’ve been analyzing every draft ever conducted for the better part of the last 11 years and I can tell you the current crop of young Canadian stars is average at best, specifically when compared to the historic groups from the early 1990s, the mid-2000s, and the first half of the 2010s.

I could be mistaken, but I can’t think of one Canadian drafted since 2018 who is averaging a point per game or better in the NHL. At the last WJC, not one Canadian finished in top-30 scoring — a first in tournament history.

The 2021 draft is the only draft Canada can really brag about. The 2004 and 2005 birth years failed miserably at the WJC and those top kids appear to be overhyped until proven otherwise, Bedard included. Only a portion of Canadians drafted within the top five since 2018 have been able to show they have star potential. Lots of middling production.

Since 2018 the only 2 players that have had consistent ppg seasons are Jack and Quinn Hughes. Stutzle is the only other player drafted in that span with a ppg season under his belt.

I suspect guys like Johnston, Guenther, Bedard and Celebrini to be there soon.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

It’s totally fair to question the veracity of Canadian-based mainstream sources. I can only think of one that I’d consider trustworthy. Button is among the least informed and barely scouts league play. McKenzie doesn’t scout at all and is almost 70. Cosentino is a CHL shill who relies on the work of others. The Sportsnet ex-scout is OK but he’s too CHL-centric and is usually clueless with the kids picked from Rounds 3-7. The girls at ESPN are self-important jokes with no clue. Clearly diversity hires. One read off index cards at a televised draft, typos included lol.

All on TV and all are Canadian. You’re telling me Button can give a recap of CM-St. John’s, or Bukala on the SM-Sarja regular season? Which Canadian outlet scouted Class 2A this year? They NEVER cover state.

The CHL is low-hanging fruit.
.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

It’s totally fair to question the veracity of Canadian-based mainstream sources. I can only think of one that I’d consider trustworthy. Button is among the least informed and barely scouts league play. McKenzie doesn’t scout at all and is almost 70. Cosentino is a CHL shill who relies on the work of others. The Sportsnet ex-scout is OK but he’s too CHL-centric and is usually clueless with the kids picked from Rounds 3-7. The girls at ESPN are self-important jokes with no clue. Clearly diversity hires. One read off index cards at a televised draft, typos included lol.

All on TV and all are Canadian. You’re telling me Button can give a recap of CM-St. John’s, or Bukala on the SM-Sarja regular season? Which Canadian outlet scouted Class 2A this year? They NEVER cover state.

The CHL is low-hanging fruit.
.

How many extremely knowledgeable hockey minds are there from the States? Not many. Unfortunately, only 5-10 states out of 50 seem to really care about hockey on both a grassroots/amateur and pro level. As a result, you're not gonna find many people from the US who become high end scouts and go on TV and talk about draft eligible prospects. The handful of knowledgeable hockey minds are either all NCAA or all NHL, you just don't find many who are smart enough or care enough to cover the NHL Draft, prospects, draft eligibles, etc

 

[Kingpin794]

It’s totally fair to question the veracity of Canadian-based mainstream sources. I can only think of one that I’d consider trustworthy. Button is among the least informed and barely scouts league play. McKenzie doesn’t scout at all and is almost 70. Cosentino is a CHL shill who relies on the work of others. The Sportsnet ex-scout is OK but he’s too CHL-centric and is usually clueless with the kids picked from Rounds 3-7. The girls at ESPN are self-important jokes with no clue. Clearly diversity hires. One read off index cards at a televised draft, typos included lol.

All on TV and all are Canadian. You’re telling me Button can give a recap of CM-St. John’s, or Bukala on the SM-Sarja regular season? Which Canadian outlet scouted Class 2A this year? They NEVER cover state.

The CHL is low-hanging fruit.
.

Question the quality of the analysis one gets in the mainstream media? Totally valid. Although in the end, this stuff is a business and there isn't that big of an audience clamoring for scouting reports from leagues not named the CHL or the European pros. The few of us sickos that comb through less popular leagues will find the info if we want to. The folks on tv and posting rankings aren't for us. Its for far more casual fans. I agree it's low hanging fruit at times but something has to pay the bills ya know?

 

[covfefe]

It’s totally fair to question the veracity of Canadian-based mainstream sources. I can only think of one that I’d consider trustworthy. Button is among the least informed and barely scouts league play. McKenzie doesn’t scout at all and is almost 70. Cosentino is a CHL shill who relies on the work of others. The Sportsnet ex-scout is OK but he’s too CHL-centric and is usually clueless with the kids picked from Rounds 3-7. The girls at ESPN are self-important jokes with no clue. Clearly diversity hires. One read off index cards at a televised draft, typos included lol.

All on TV and all are Canadian. You’re telling me Button can give a recap of CM-St. John’s, or Bukala on the SM-Sarja regular season? Which Canadian outlet scouted Class 2A this year? They NEVER cover state.

The CHL is low-hanging fruit.
.

There are 0 ranked players from public MA HS' this year, it's just one kid from Andover. Weird expectation, tbh.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

There are 0 ranked players from public MA HS' this year, it's just one kid from Andover. Weird expectation, tbh.

If you're talking about Phillips Andover, that's HS-Prep, part of NEPSAC, so not even public MA HS hockey. And that Phillips Andover kid is Canadian lmao

 

[NTDP]

There are 0 ranked players from public MA HS' this year, it's just one kid from Andover. Weird expectation, tbh.

He was talking about Class AA from Minnesota High School and the State Tournament. Not MIAA Massachusetts high school which has been irrelevant for NHL scouts for years now since the talent isn't there anymore. It's NEPSAC which gets the New England attention like @Hockeyville USA mentioned.

 

[Mathieukferland]

How many extremely knowledgeable hockey minds are there from the States? Not many. Unfortunately, only 5-10 states out of 50 seem to really care about hockey on both a grassroots/amateur and pro level. As a result, you're not gonna find many people from the US who become high end scouts and go on TV and talk about draft eligible prospects. The handful of knowledgeable hockey minds are either all NCAA or all NHL, you just don't find many who are smart enough or care enough to cover the NHL Draft, prospects, draft eligibles, etc

Dave Starman is a walking encyclopaedia of prospect knowledge, unfortunately no one would be able to endure listening to him for a 4 hour televised draft though

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Dave Starman is a walking encyclopaedia of prospect knowledge, unfortunately no one would be able to endure listening to him for a 4 hour televised draft though

He doesn't know the CHL very well, but he knows the NCAA front to back better than anyone else. He'd have to work on his European Pro route guys too

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Go watch Ligue Magnus if you think those two aren’t that strong, it’s a bit of tell that you don’t watch the NHL if that is your opinion. I know the games are in the middle of the night for you but they are the most productive teenagers since McDavid and better than anyone else you have on that list; Celebrini in particular looks as if he’s the most complete 18 year old to enter the league in the last 20 years, even if McDavid’s point totals were slightly higher.

For all of Pavel’s "ideas" shall we call them, at least he’s as well informed as anyone and watches the games.

When I receive a notification from you, I know in advance that I'll be treated to a provocative, belittling, and denigrating message. So the credibility I give you is ridiculous.

You talk about a lack of viewership, but you only talk about stats based on what suits you. You wouldn't go so far as to say that Bedard has the worst +/- in NHL, and Celebrini is not far from it either, for example.

You can't say these guys are having a better draft +1 season than Hischier, Dahlin, or Laine. There are guys on the U21 roster who are better than them right now. My eyes clearly see the enormous difference in level between Crosby and these two guys at the same age.

And even though Crosby was a great player in the NHL, it didn't undermine the overall logic I'm talking about and which is the heart of my message. We still need to make the effort to understand the user rather than systematically looking for an angle to attack them through human stupidity.

I won't go any further; you don't interest me. Your obsession with me is pathetic. Go see a psychologist.

Find a goal in life, a girlfriend, start a family, become a real man.

Bye bye bye

 

[Rusty8719]

I've seen some bad games for Hagens, but I'd still keep him at second overall, third at worst at this point in time. Think his lack of elite, top tier college production is overshadowing his play a bit much for some pundits, but that's just me.

I agree with you. I think if he played in the OHL this year he puts up 115 points and we're talking about him like Marner.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I agree with you. I think if he played in the OHL this year he puts up 115 points and we're talking about him like Marner.

Yeah? I think he'd be close. Marner had 126 in his draft year, and was 17 for most of the season. Marner went #4.

 

[Rusty8719]

Yeah? I think he'd be close. Marner had 126 in his draft year, and was 17 for most of the season. Marner went #4.

My bold prediction is Hagens will go 5th this year and in 5 years it'll be clear he should have gone #2...maybe #3 if Martone or McQueen turns into Draisaitl.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I think it’s a bit crazy to say that there is strong Canadian bias intentionally like it’s some conspiracy, but I do think there is Canadian bias overall unintentionally where Canadian players tend to get overrated comparatively to the rest of the nations. There’s no denying that Canada is still the biggest hockey producer on the planet however.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

It’s totally fair to question the veracity of Canadian-based mainstream sources. I can only think of one that I’d consider trustworthy. Button is among the least informed and barely scouts league play. McKenzie doesn’t scout at all and is almost 70. Cosentino is a CHL shill who relies on the work of others. The Sportsnet ex-scout is OK but he’s too CHL-centric and is usually clueless with the kids picked from Rounds 3-7. The girls at ESPN are self-important jokes with no clue. Clearly diversity hires. One read off index cards at a televised draft, typos included lol.

All on TV and all are Canadian. You’re telling me Button can give a recap of CM-St. John’s, or Bukala on the SM-Sarja regular season? Which Canadian outlet scouted Class 2A this year? They NEVER cover state.

The CHL is low-hanging fruit.
.

Not sure what Mackenzie's age has to do with anything; he polls active NHL scouts. The "Canadian media" draft rankings have 0 impact on where guys are actually picked. You get "reaches" every year that are only considered as such because we haven't heard their names in the media, but the NHL scouts have their own lists that aren't impacted by media lists.

Canadian media is the majority of draft media because hockey is most popular in Canada; it's really weird to get bent out of shape and claim conspiracy, when the real issue is not enough American's care about hockey to have major draft-level coverage. Nothing stopping American media from doing the same kind of draft coverage.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Not sure what Mackenzie's age has to do with anything; he polls active NHL scouts. The "Canadian media" draft rankings have 0 impact on where guys are actually picked. You get "reaches" every year that are only considered as such because we haven't heard their names in the media, but the NHL scouts have their own lists that aren't impacted by media lists.

Canadian media is the majority of draft media because hockey is most popular in Canada; it's really weird to get bent out of shape and claim conspiracy, when the real issue is not enough American's care about hockey to have major draft-level coverage. Nothing stopping American media from doing the same kind of draft coverage.

Correct points. We don't have enough "married to the game" diehard hockey fans in the States to the point where we develop a US insider. Most of the draft experts on a national media level or the smaller independent types are Canadian as well. Sad we can't develop our own.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Not sure what Mackenzie's age has to do with anything; he polls active NHL scouts. The "Canadian media" draft rankings have 0 impact on where guys are actually picked. You get "reaches" every year that are only considered as such because we haven't heard their names in the media, but the NHL scouts have their own lists that aren't impacted by media lists.

Canadian media is the majority of draft media because hockey is most popular in Canada; it's really weird to get bent out of shape and claim conspiracy, when the real issue is not enough American's care about hockey to have major draft-level coverage. Nothing stopping American media from doing the same kind of draft coverage.

Pointing out shitty draft coverage isn't being bent out of shape. It's just a reality.

You don't think it's odd that the country that is most obsessed with hockey has the worst draft coverage of the four major sports? Americans are equally obsessed with the NFL and U.S. media covering it take the responsibility way more seriously than their Canadian counterparts with hockey. This is an undeniable fact.

None of the mainstream outlets -- Sportsnet, TSN, ESPN, The Athletic, The Hockey News, et. al -- are credible for draft coverage. Most -- and again, I say most not all -- of the independent or pay sites have teenagers and college interns scouting games and the prose is generally shit.

Baseball America is the gold standard for prospect coverage among the four sports and IIRC a Canadian created the company. I guess hockey fans are ok with the bare minimum.

 

[Peasy]

Pointing out shitty draft coverage isn't being bent out of shape. It's just a reality.

You don't think it's odd that the country that is most obsessed with hockey has the worst draft coverage of the four major sports? Americans are equally obsessed with the NFL and U.S. media covering it take the responsibility way more seriously than their Canadian counterparts with hockey. This is an undeniable fact.

None of the mainstream outlets -- Sportsnet, TSN, ESPN, The Athletic, The Hockey News, et. al -- are credible for draft coverage. Most -- and again, I say most not all -- of the independent or pay sites have teenagers and college interns scouting games and the prose is generally shit.

Baseball America is the gold standard for prospect coverage among the four sports and IIRC a Canadian created the company. I guess hockey fans are ok with the bare minimum.

There are simply to little draft junkie type of hockey fans to pour way more resources into it. As you said, most hockey fans are okay with the bare minimum and will only start to think about the draft if their team is completely out of it or if their team has like a top 10, top 5 pick.

Comparing the NHL to the MLB or NFL is just insane lol. NHL doesnt even come close to either of those leagues in terms of size and impact. Should be comparing NHL draft coverage to something like WNBA draft coverage lol.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

There are simply to little draft junkie type of hockey fans to pour way more resources into it. As you said, most hockey fans are okay with the bare minimum and will only start to think about the draft if their team is completely out of it or if their team has like a top 10, top 5 pick.

Comparing the NHL to the MLB or NFL is just insane lol. NHL doesnt even come close to either of those leagues in terms of size and impact. Should be comparing NHL draft coverage to something like WNBA draft coverage lol.

These are excuses. The NHL is a billion-dollar company with global brand recognition. Sportsticker in the early 2000's covered baseball prospects and the minor leagues like a blanket using less than a dozen half-drunk post-college dudes making nine bucks an hour. Meanwhile, Gammons, Stark, Beaton, Kurkjian, Callis etc. were relying on them for the night's prospect roundup.

Has nothing to do with a lack of resources and everything to do with a lack of foresight and will. Look at this board. Third-most visited on the site. All ESPN or TSN would have to do is recruit 5-10 people from here and it would be better. There is a market for superior draft coverage and the NHL and their TV partners refuse to take it seriously. Button is a respected guy and deservedly so, but the NHL is his priority. ESPN made Rachel Doerrie their lead draft analyst. She's literally a walking L with zero credibility, and she worked in the NHL lol. Gare Joyce and Kyle Woodlief did a great job back in the day and knew how to write. Have no clue how the coverage has devolved after those guys set a pretty high yet attainable standard.

"The people don't come because you grandiose motherf***ers don't play shit that they like. If you played the shit that they like, then people would come."

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Pointing out shitty draft coverage isn't being bent out of shape. It's just a reality.

You don't think it's odd that the country that is most obsessed with hockey has the worst draft coverage of the four major sports? Americans are equally obsessed with the NFL and U.S. media covering it take the responsibility way more seriously than their Canadian counterparts with hockey. This is an undeniable fact.

None of the mainstream outlets -- Sportsnet, TSN, ESPN, The Athletic, The Hockey News, et. al -- are credible for draft coverage. Most -- and again, I say most not all -- of the independent or pay sites have teenagers and college interns scouting games and the prose is generally shit.

Baseball America is the gold standard for prospect coverage among the four sports and IIRC a Canadian created the company. I guess hockey fans are ok with the bare minimum.

It can be "reality" in your eyes, and you can also be acting bent out of shape about it, which you are. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

It can be "reality" in your eyes, and you can also be acting bent out of shape about it, which you are. They aren't mutually exclusive.

This is a message board where messages are posted and my current message is I think draft coverage sucks. Hopefully this helps you grasp the concept of online communication.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

This is a message board where messages are posted and my current message is I think draft coverage sucks. Hopefully this helps you grasp the concept of online communication.

No need to be snarky just because you're bent out of shape.

 

[Boxscore]

The McQueen love is nothing more than a conspiracy to gaslight the Flyers into drafting a 6-6 player with injuries.