Craig Button List Spring 2025

[WarriorofTime]

Really, was the American group stronger last year, for instance?

You are overdoing that. It may be slightly weak, but not to the extent you're suggesting, nor the extent Button is suggesting.

Faulty narrative. Should we ignore Cole McKinney just had a 17 game point streak (for a freaking defensive minded center)? That's worth the 44th best slot in the draft?

It's not that uncommon for Americans to be a bit underrated in draft year (the historical numbers see a trend where the number of Americans selected increase with each subsequent round) and it's also not that uncommon when a draft is relatively weak overall that it gets filled with a bunch of "meh" Canadian guys because the CHL ranks will always have someone you can use a pick on. Wouldn't be overly surprised if the overall cohort that hit some generalized NHL milestones is a bit closer to the aggregate percentages today than what the percentages in the first round will look like this year.

 

[MS]

Also, literally every list (including Button's) will have a big boost for NDTP/Euro Jr. guys after the U-18s. This is what happens every single year.

 

[Czechboy]

Sad no nestrasil but poletin, benak and cihar is nice. Mrtka in round 1.

 

[Giant Panda]

Another list with Hagens outside of the top 5. Seems more and more people are publically saying what's been whispered about for months.

Hagens is really good but nothing about him is great. Based on all the noise, seems NHL teams are starting to doubt his ability to be a top liner and see him more like a future second line guy. If that's the case, you gotta gamble on skill.

 

[ORRFForever]

Canada has produced 3 times the number of American first round picks since 2020. It will continue this year, hopefully next year and perhaps in 2027. We've also been producing players who are "ELITE" for most of the 20's. The Canadian talent currently in the pipeline is extraordinary.

It might be time to give Canada credit where credit is due.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I think it’s only natural that the “best” get put under a microscope that is a bit unfair compared with other prospects. As the draft approaches and we get infinite mocks and rankings, I think it’s natural that some want to stand out or have a bold stance. Literally every prospect has his warts and question marks besides the Crosby’s and McDavids in the 21st century. For all we know Hagens could just be having a down year. Schaefer has absolutely skyrocketed because of like 20 games. The risks are there for all these guys but some of them will be first line/pair talents in the NHL

 

[Mattb124]

Jeez, any excuse to make it a Canadian conspiracy against the Americans. Give it a rest already.

 

[Lumber]

Jeez, any excuse to make it a Canadian conspiracy against the Americans. Give it a rest already.

They wear tin foil helmets it seems

 

[Mattb124]

They wear tin foil helmets it seems

I never realized that tinfoil had enough strength to cut off blood flow to the brain.

 

[Bubbles]

That's really high for Schmidt

He's had an abnormal obsession with him for a couple years now, none of which can actually be explained in any real hockey way. Schmidt has actually a poorer 2nd half of the season yet he's risen in the rankings.

He also hates Carter Bear for no reason. Bear's had a great season and he's not never written about him in detail. It makes you question if he ever watches WHL at all.

 

[Bubbles]

The most "right" vs every one else Button has ever been was the year he had Connor and Boeser in his top 10. Both American.
Also- he had Virtanen in the 40's when no one else did. Virtanen's Canadian.
Button might be way off on his own tangent sometimes but I don't think he gives a rip where any of the prospects are from.
Seems a lot more likely he just doesn't care for this year's crop of Americans, and he's not the only one.

He gets thing right and wrong about the same as most of the people here. Which is why I don't really look at any of his insights anymore.

He also ranked Michael Dal Colle 5th and Haydn Fleury 7th in that same Virtanen draft. Not sure why Button backers always bring up Virtanen but not the myriad of misses he has on his lists.

 

[wetcoast]

That's really high for Schmidt

I'm one of the early and more optimistic Schmidt supporters but that's too high, no way he goes in the top 10 and even top 15 is iffy.

 

[wetcoast]

20 of the top 24 are Canadian according to him. 21 Canadians in the first round.

All the notable Americans ranked low.

How does this compute with that Canada’s share of NHL’ers drops virtually every year?

Absolute clown.

That's 21 cooks and cleaners buddy, elbows up eh.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Ranking Hagens that low is a bit disrespectful, but Craig is always bold with his rankings. He's not just going to copy everyone else, I respect him more for that tbh.

To be fair, it is a very weak US group for the 2025 Draft, not surprised that Craig and others would have them lower.

Disrespectful? It's a draft ranking lol. Hagens is falling hard and Craig is not the only one to have him outside the top 4 at this point.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Canada has produced 3 times the number of American first round picks since 2020. It will continue this year, hopefully next year and perhaps in 2027. We've also been producing players who are "ELITE" for most of the 20's. The Canadian talent currently in the pipeline is extraordinary.

It might be time to give Canada credit where credit is due.

Canadian quantity no longer means Canadian quality. The draft numbers you reference actually hurts Canada’s reputation considering how many are drafted versus how many hit.

Only five of this year’s top-20 rookie scorers are Canadian and the country no longer produces capable NHL goalies, let alone quality types. Only seven in the top 30.

Anyway, as IRT Button, he calls him a director of scouting yet covers the NHL almost exclusively outside of a handful of tournaments and CHL events. He is arguably the biggest guesser among the mainstream types with very little depth beyond said tournaments and the CHL. That dude Cosentino is a close second, but there he is analyzing the draft on TV every year. Both get most of their information from public sources, not actual scouting, yet play it off as their own.

 

[macbowes]

Canadian quantity no longer means Canadian quality. The draft numbers you reference actually hurts Canada’s reputation considering how many are drafted versus how many hit.

Only five of this year’s top-20 rookie scorers are Canadian and the country no longer produces capable NHL goalies, let alone quality types. Only seven in the top 30.

Anyway, as IRT Button, he calls him a director of scouting yet covers the NHL almost exclusively outside of a handful of tournaments and CHL events. He is arguably the biggest guesser among the mainstream types with very little depth beyond said tournaments and the CHL. That dude Cosentino is a close second, but there he is analyzing the draft on TV every year. Both get most of their information from public sources, not actual scouting, yet play it off as their own.

22 out of the top 50 23U scorers are Canadian. 15 out of the top 30 21U scorers are Canadian. 4 out of the top 10 goalies by sv% with a minimum of 25 starts are Canadian.

The US had a run of good drafts from 2016-2022, but they are having a couple down years. Canada had few down years during US's good run. Canada is still clearly the best producer of hockey talent of all levels.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Another list with Hagens outside of the top 5. Seems more and more people are publically saying what's been whispered about for months.

Hagens is really good but nothing about him is great. Based on all the noise, seems NHL teams are starting to doubt his ability to be a top liner and see him more like a future second line guy. If that's the case, you gotta gamble on skill.

No one has whispered this.

You are making up fake sources. You have no sources, just as I have no sources.

You are an internet message board poster. Stop pretending you’re some super secret insider.

You don’t like James Hagens. Don’t put this off on anyone else other than yourself.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I never realized that tinfoil had enough strength to cut off blood flow to the brain.

If it’s such a conspiracy, explain how it computes that Canada’s hockey prowess continues to decline, yet their share of first round picks and first overalls seems to have turned into a monopoly.

They are now supposedly going to have 20+ first rounders. They took first overalls four out of the last five years, and have now claimed the next three. We will have a system where the first slot will go to Canadians 7 of 8 years.

None of this computes. Canada’s share of NHL’ers keeps going down every year. Virtually every other nation (the ones that are seeing their NHL draft prowess decline at the expense of Canada) is seeing their share rise.

Isn’t it supposed to be that draft slots compute with who is turning into what NHL’er? The system has become a joke and literally every country other than Canada realizes this.

It used to be a system where the Europeans lament that the North Americans are doing this, but now the United States can join the European countries. They’ve stolen the first slot from us that we earned, and have decided that our whole draft class is trash.

So now Canada is on their own island where they will parade around about their NHL Draft success and every other country will suggest it’s not a legitimate process.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That's 21 cooks and cleaners buddy, elbows up eh.

Except I never called any of those players that.

Maybe you yourself are self conscious about the level of the hockey if you deliberately will lie about what was said.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

22 out of the top 50 23U scorers are Canadian. 15 out of the top 30 21U scorers are Canadian. 4 out of the top 10 goalies by sv% with a minimum of 25 starts are Canadian.

The US had a run of good drafts from 2016-2022, but they are having a couple down years. Canada had few down years during US's good run. Canada is still clearly the best producer of hockey talent of all levels.

Again, quantity over quality is the Canadian trend.

U21 means drafted from 2022, 2023, and 2024. The top 15 scorers from that cohort are as follows:

Canada (5): Bedard, Fantilli, Celebrini, Wright, Benson

U.S. (4): Cooley, Smith, Gauthier, Hutson

Russia (2): Michkov, Mintyukov

Czech Rep. (1): Kulich
Slovakia (1): Slafkovsky
Austria (1): Kasper
Sweden (1): Carlsson

Canada makes up (on average) 40 percent of the draft, but here, only 33 percent are in the top 15. The Americans make up around 20 percent but have 27 percent of the top 15 U21 scorers.

All four of the Canadian goalies you mentioned are 28 years old or older. There have been 33 NHL U26 goalies with at least one start this season and only seven are Canadian, and six of them have a combined 24 appearances. Most are back in the minors. Only one of the last 21 Vezina finalists was Canadian (MAF in 2021). It’s an undeniable fact that Canada simply stopped producing quality goalies.

The bust rate for CHL-trained Canadians in the top 10 since 2016 is also high. Add Canada’s WJC struggles and the downward trend should be evident. The 2021 and 2023 drafts look good. Others not so much.

I get why the CHL dominates every draft but the first-rounders in recent years are either having a tougher go at it or are being surpassed by players drafted later or from elsewhere.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Really, was the American group stronger last year, for instance?

You are overdoing that. It may be slightly weak, but not to the extent you're suggesting, nor the extent Button is suggesting.

Faulty narrative. Should we ignore Cole McKinney just had a 17 game point streak (for a freaking defensive minded center)? That's worth the 44th best slot in the draft?

Potter isn't elite, Hensler isn't elite, McKinney isn't elite. They are good players, but nothing suggests future stars.

 

[JackSlater]

If it’s such a conspiracy, explain how it computes that Canada’s hockey prowess continues to decline, yet their share of first round picks and first overalls seems to have turned into a monopoly.

They are now supposedly going to have 20+ first rounders. They took first overalls four out of the last five years, and have now claimed the next three. We will have a system where the first slot will go to Canadians 7 of 8 years.

None of this computes. Canada’s share of NHL’ers keeps going down every year. Virtually every other nation (the ones that are seeing their NHL draft prowess decline at the expense of Canada) is seeing their share rise.

Isn’t it supposed to be that draft slots compute with who is turning into what NHL’er? The system has become a joke and literally every country other than Canada realizes this.

It used to be a system where the Europeans lament that the North Americans are doing this, but now the United States can join the European countries. They’ve stolen the first slot from us that we earned, and have decided that our whole draft class is trash.

So now Canada is on their own island where they will parade around about their NHL Draft success and every other country will suggest it’s not a legitimate process.

This is maybe the craziest draft related post I've ever read, the bolded part at the very least, and I once posted my opinion that Yakupov would be better than MacKinnon. Sign of the times I suppose as bizarre conspiracies become increasingly common. Must be time to start an alternative scouting service so the American people can get the... hockey prospect slots that they earned(?), or maybe teams should finally allow non-Canadian GMs and non-Canadian scouts. They should especially hire GMs and scouts more concerned with their careers than giving Canada a rare taste of hockey success on draft day.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think lists like this that seem way “off the board” are probably more representative of what individual teams lists look like than Bob’s smoothed-out, averaged out poll is

Listening to HP pods over the years they always talk about how crazy individual teams lists would look to fans

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I never realized that tinfoil had enough strength to cut off blood flow to the brain.

PavelBuchnevich has been working tirelessly on a prototype for years. Maybe the test model's have finally been delivered to beta-testers.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If it’s such a conspiracy, explain how it computes that Canada’s hockey prowess continues to decline, yet their share of first round picks and first overalls seems to have turned into a monopoly.

They are now supposedly going to have 20+ first rounders. They took first overalls four out of the last five years, and have now claimed the next three. We will have a system where the first slot will go to Canadians 7 of 8 years.

None of this computes. Canada’s share of NHL’ers keeps going down every year. Virtually every other nation (the ones that are seeing their NHL draft prowess decline at the expense of Canada) is seeing their share rise.

Isn’t it supposed to be that draft slots compute with who is turning into what NHL’er? The system has become a joke and literally every country other than Canada realizes this.

It used to be a system where the Europeans lament that the North Americans are doing this, but now the United States can join the European countries. They’ve stolen the first slot from us that we earned, and have decided that our whole draft class is trash.

So now Canada is on their own island where they will parade around about their NHL Draft success and every other country will suggest it’s not a legitimate process.

Bro I say this because I think you need to hear it…. This is not a healthy post and you should cool off. It is truly not this deep and it’s not worth it to get worked up over other people’s draft rankings.