Confirmed with Link: Craig Berube named the 32nd Coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs

[colchar]

This is why I don't want to get rid of Shanahan.

Yes, he has no results yet but if hot and sought after names become available you can guarantee Shanahan is going all in to bring them in

So people sign here because of Shanahan? How do teams without someone in a position like his hire anyone?

 

[Mess]

I have more faith in the scientific approach, change one variable at a time to come to an accurate conclusion.

Treliving is doing his best to maintain his focus and not lose sight of the goal, which is to help the team get better and to hopefully win a championship in Toronto. With this in mind, Treliving doubled down on his end of season comments, confirming that not only will the Leafs look at all options, including separating the team's core, but that this summer will be a busy one in Toronto.

"As I said at the end of the year [press conference], we're going to look at everything. We've got some really good players. We don't want to lose sight of that. But now Craig and I will sit down and we'll start to dig into all of the other areas - roster construction and all of those types of things - and we've got a busy summer ahead."

Judging from Treliving's comments, we're going to see a lot of movement this year

 

[Tak7]

Bottom line, not many think its a bad hire and most think its a good one so why look for problems when they dont exist?. If in 2-5 yrs we still suck and Berube and Tre are duds then have at it, I ll be right there with you but for now I don't see the need to overthink it.

In the past few years, I've become much more of a process > results type of fan.

Ultimately, the hires might work. But it does seem noteworthy imo, that proper process wasn't followed in landing these two hires. It's something to pay attention to when considering how the organization, big picture, functions.

 

[Tak7]

again wait for what? they knew who they wanted, so they got him. now again - MY choice would be Quennville. and I would have pushed Bettman to make a decision but we're not having this debate. because they aren't. you wanted Gallant - but they interviewed Gallant. so obviously they interviewed everyone and they picked their best person.

I think that's my issue currently - I'm fine with the organization knowing what type of coach they want, and entering the market searching for the best fit with that criteria.

However, I just worry that they have become close-minded in that decision making process. Entering the market with a very narrow vision of what you want, means you potentially close yourself off to new ideas.

And ultimately, I don't think this is an organization that has really embraced the idea of an open mind for quite some time now. They are risk averse, and safe, and categorical yes-men to one another.

I've got a bad feeling about how the next few years play out.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think that's my issue currently - I'm fine with the organization knowing what type of coach they want, and entering the market searching for the best fit with that criteria.

However, I just worry that they have become close-minded in that decision making process. Entering the market with a very narrow vision of what you want, means you potentially close yourself off to new ideas.

And ultimately, I don't think this is an organization that has really embraced the idea of an open mind for quite some time now. They are risk averse, and safe, and categorical yes-men to one another.

I've got a bad feeling about how the next few years play out.

okay. i am going to chalk this up from being exhausted and my brain melting because it's summer, because you arent making any sense.

Close-minded was Shanahan simiply giving dubas the job. and i wrote at the time very adamantly that that was wrong for Shanahan to do. he didn't interview anyone it was just more of "Nope. just Dubas we're good."

I can't speak about the Treliving hiring because I wasn't really paying attention but again I always say who else was available. I think that's always key.

We know who was available for a while. Quennville is a league decision (and honestly i don't think ANY team can really budge Bettman's mind on reinstating him (or Bowman). on this so i don't blame them for not even trying. It's been reported they interviewed several candidates (and honestly I don't really buy that's all they did. there could be more but those were the bigger names). you aren't close minded if you're interviewing new people. I don't even know how "open minded" you can be when the same coaches get turned over over and over.

And the last time the organization said "hey let's go outside the box OPEN MIND" that's what got us Dubas which people still rag on. and then we got Keefe which.. people still rag on. you know there are a crap tonne of people who believe that the Leafs aren't the type of organization you should cut your teeth on. yet people complain we're going through retreads. so basically. people just want to be miserable it feeels like.

For me. they interviewed a lot. they got Berube. (who probably wanted to be in Toronto) note. your other argument was NJD took their sweet ole time. well they basically hired Keefe asap once he became available which led me to believe perhaps THAT'S the guy they wanted since the other top contender was probably waiting for Toronto to decide on what to do. which boils down to my very first comment in this thread that they probably had an idea that Brind'Amour wasn't going to be available. or they didn't want to risk waiting to see and lose on the BEST available.

why this is drama i do not know.

 

[myleafs]

In the past few years, I've become much more of a process > results type of fan.

Ultimately, the hires might work. But it does seem noteworthy imo, that proper process wasn't followed in landing these two hires. It's something to pay attention to when considering how the organization, big picture, functions.

If I hear process one more time from the leafs brass Im gonna puke. Everything is a process. Also what makes you think you know how things actually went down when Tre and Berube were hired? Do you have inside knowledge that the rest of us dont have? And I would add what makes you think you know better than the ones making the decisions? You are saying that you know the right way to do things and they don't. Why should I believe you?

 

[Tak7]

If I hear process one more time from the leafs brass Im gonna puke. Everything is a process.

Successful organizations follow successful processes, and the Leafs haven't had any success, so it's only natural to start concerning yourself with what processes they do and don't take. After a decade of failure, everything should be under scrutiny.

I don't think this is an organization that has considered process at all.

If I hear process one more time from the leafs brass Im gonna puke. Everything is a process. Also what makes you think you know how things actually went down when Tre and Berube were hired? Do you have inside knowledge that the rest of us dont have?

Nope - my conclusions are based entirely on what's publicly available to everyone, which is why I'm surprised at the lack of concern surrounding it.

 

[Stephen]

This is why I don't want to get rid of Shanahan.

Yes, he has no results yet but if hot and sought after names become available you can guarantee Shanahan is going all in to bring them in (Yes, the GM signs the coach but you know Shanahan is sitting with Tre all day through these major changes).

Love him or hate him, even Dubas was the most sought after young exec when we signed him.

This is exciting times for our management / coaching roles. I genuinely believe in this new setup from GM all the way down to coach.

Dubas wasn’t all that well known when Shanahan hired him but somewhat popular online and via analytics circles as hockey was looking for its own version of Moneyball, Theo Epstein, etc.

At the time it looked like Shanahan was looking at the next generation of managers at the junior level, which included Mark Hunter, Kyle Dubas and Kelly McCrimmon out of Brandon.

To say Dubas was the hot executive prospect at the time is a bit of a false notion. That’s not really a thing at all and not how GM’s and executives are brought along in the sport.

 

[rumman]

Another good Berube story, let just say he has a good memory…….

 

[colchar]

In the past few years, I've become much more of a process > results type of fan.

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. What you are saying is that you care about process more than actual results. In other words, you don't give a shit whether they win, just that they follow some idiotic process? There is no cup awarded for process, ffs.

Ultimately, the hires might work. But it does seem noteworthy imo, that proper process wasn't followed in landing these two hires. It's something to pay attention to when considering how the organization, big picture, functions.

Why do you insist on completely ignoring reality when making these stupid claims? As has been stated in multiple places, including this thread, their search involved nine candidates and they interviewed at least three (there may be more who they spoke to who we do not know about). Those are fact, but you ignore them because they do not fit this ridiculous argument that you are trying to make.

Nope - my conclusions are based entirely on what's publicly available to everyone, which is why I'm surprised at the lack of concern surrounding it.

This is a complete and utter load of shit because you flatly refuse to acknowledge information that is available to everyone when that information doesn't fit your ridiculous narrative.

 

[Evilhomer]

In the past few years, I've become much more of a process > results type of fan.

Ultimately, the hires might work. But it does seem noteworthy imo, that proper process wasn't followed in landing these two hires. It's something to pay attention to when considering how the organization, big picture, functions.

Ironically, I think it did follow their recent process. Find household name that carries little risk in the event of failure, and put a bow on it. For that same reason, it's why I don't expect them to go into next season with Woll and a veteran backup. I think they will add a traditional number one goalie and a couple of high profile free agents on the backend.

 

[LeafEgo]

This is why I don't want to get rid of Shanahan.

Yes, he has no results yet but if hot and sought after names become available you can guarantee Shanahan is going all in to bring them in (Yes, the GM signs the coach but you know Shanahan is sitting with Tre all day through these major changes).

Love him or hate him, even Dubas was the most sought after young exec when we signed him.

This is exciting times for our management / coaching roles. I genuinely believe in this new setup from GM all the way down to coach.

We're all speculating, but to me it feels like Pelley, Tre, and Berube have taken over this team, and Shanny is just in the background riding out term. Not sure he's doing much of anything these days.

Only Avs had interest in Dubie and that evaporated shortly after interviewing him.

 

[Racer88]

So people sign here because of Shanahan? How do teams without someone in a position like his hire anyone?

So people sign here because of Shanahan? How do teams without someone in a position like his hire anyone?

I liken that to the question how do other teams win in the playoff without Marner because daily here we hear how we are immediately worse if we don’t have him

 

[Confucius]

I liken that to the question how do other teams win in the playoff without Marner because daily here we hear how we are immediately worse if we don’t have him

Well next season could be a win win year, we play better without Marner everyone is happy, we play worse the backpedaling and excuses around here will be epic. Very entertaining anyway.

 

[Racer88]

Well next season could be a win win year, we play better without Marner everyone is happy, we play worse the backpedaling and excuses around here will be epic. Very entertaining anyway.

I look forward to every minute of it and my preference would be to win no matter how it happens

 

[Tak7]

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. What you are saying is that you care about process more than actual results. In other words, you don't give a shit whether they win, just that they follow some idiotic process? There is no cup awarded for process, ffs.

That's not what "process over results" means at all.

Process refers to how a team operates. Compare successful teams to the Leafs, and you find many that have a vision / philosophy, and an idea of how they want to operate and behave. The Leafs, in contrast, have flip-flopped with any perceived long term vision pertaining to simple things like roster construction.

You get the process right, and results begin to follow.

But if you want to keep the pom-poms out, cheering for a team that puts up 100 points in the regular season based purely on star power, and ignore that they don't operate the way proper contenders do, that's on you.

This is a complete and utter load of shit because you flatly refuse to acknowledge information that is available to everyone when that information doesn't fit your ridiculous narrative.

What information do you have, that they conducted a thorough interview process with more than the 2 candidates I listed above.

Feel free to provide it, and shoot down my "ridiculous narrative", other go rage on your own.

I'll wait.

 

[Stephen]

Another good Berube story, let just say he has a good memory…….

So you’re saying Berube will punch a star forward while in the same organization…

 

[Its not your fault]

So people sign here because of Shanahan? How do teams without someone in a position like his hire anyone?

Salary Cap. It's to help keep the league competitive.... Where did everyone sign before a cap top ten leagues probably took most the skill. If someone cared more about playing time over winning the odd one would go to a team with a PP1 and top 6 roll open. A lot of 1 year redemption deals so guys could make their money also worked this angle. But basically the league needed a cap in order to keep the league competitive.

 

[The Masters]

Lol this guy can tell a story

 

[Dayjobdave]

I think that's my issue currently - I'm fine with the organization knowing what type of coach they want, and entering the market searching for the best fit with that criteria.

However, I just worry that they have become close-minded in that decision making process. Entering the market with a very narrow vision of what you want, means you potentially close yourself off to new ideas.

And ultimately, I don't think this is an organization that has really embraced the idea of an open mind for quite some time now. They are risk averse, and safe, and categorical yes-men to one another.

I've got a bad feeling about how the next few years play out.

Although I am happy with the Treliving/Berube direction, I think you are onto something and it terrifies me.

Whatever idea is the idea of the day, when Shanny likes it, it becomes the only idea. This is supposed to mean we are focused, and not directionless, but it actually makes manage, t closed-minded and inflexible.

Possession over everything
Overage junior picks
Small players are less expensive to draft
Core 4
Cheap goalies are ok because they are voodoo

Etc.

Now we are north-south.

What will be the next magic idea?

The more things change….

 

[DarkKnight]

I like the idea that Berube might be a harder person to let down and face in the room after a country club atmosphere. Keefe just didn’t have that kind of a presence. A change was needed.

Also, Treliving comes across as very eloquent, compassionate and diligent without being performative about it. Impressing me as a workmanlike GM. No ego.

The commentary we hear is that his players did want to win for him, not let him down, so your first point is spot on. Keefe never had that cache.

The absence of narcissism with the new GM is notable, he doesn’t seem impressed with himself as he speaks. Big off season for him.

 

[rumman]

Lol this guy can tell a story

That Al Iafretti story he told was priceless, also the Sutter stories were entertaining, not sure if they’re on thus one, but the last one you posted was fantastic…….

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas wasn’t all that well known when Shanahan hired him but somewhat popular online and via analytics circles as hockey was looking for its own version of Moneyball, Theo Epstein, etc.

At the time it looked like Shanahan was looking at the next generation of managers at the junior level, which included Mark Hunter, Kyle Dubas and Kelly McCrimmon out of Brandon.

To say Dubas was the hot executive prospect at the time is a bit of a false notion. That’s not really a thing at all and not how GM’s and executives are brought along in the sport.

Dubas came along right at the apex of analytics emerging as the new NHL. A young hot shot, with amazing oratory skills, I think Shanahan wanted to be forward thinking, which on the face of it you can’t argue with. The trouble was, he forgot who he was and put his faith in people who had no experience, no track record, no pedigree. The biggest mistake was not keeping Lou for another season, keep him around for these contracts, then let junior take the helm. I actually wasn’t against Dubas eventually becoming GM, it was just done too soon. Then Dubas multiples the problem by doing the same thing with his coach hire, a green nobody who needed to learn on the job.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

If Keefe was coaching the Rangers that would have been Jarnkrok on the ice instead of Goodrow.

I hope Berube is able to use Domi properly if we re-sign him. After watching Domi in the playoffs, I don't feel like we maximized his potential last season.

 

[Confucius]

Dubas wasn’t all that well known when Shanahan hired him but somewhat popular online and via analytics circles as hockey was looking for its own version of Moneyball, Theo Epstein, etc.

At the time it looked like Shanahan was looking at the next generation of managers at the junior level, which included Mark Hunter, Kyle Dubas and Kelly McCrimmon out of Brandon.

To say Dubas was the hot executive prospect at the time is a bit of a false notion. That’s not really a thing at all and not how GM’s and executives are brought along in the sport.

My son was at Queens, during his final MBA year he was telling me there was a notice stating a GM position with the Leafs was available. He tells me everyone applied, Lol! That probably was when they hired Dubas.