Proposal: Cozens for Crouse+Kesselring

[rt]

Thoughtful explanation. I can see the reasoning there at least. I still think the above-mentioned dearth of real "right now" 2C options is part of what makes this tough for Buffalo. Though that's really just the box they're stuck in with any sort of Cozens trade at this point. Leaning on a pick to step in immediately right out of the draft and help turn things around is always a huge ask. Even within a few years, it tends to take guys a while to find their footing...even if they can do some scoring, the all-around game usually takes a while, and that's what Buffalo really needs more of. They've had too many young players get by just scoring, until they go somewhere else to round out their game and flourish.

Kesselring is such a potentially huge piece to give up as well though. I'm not sure he's a perfect fit for Buffalo, but he'd be a good deal closer than most of what else is likely available to them. From Utah's end though, is where stepping back from a big young RHD showing a ton of upside and promise, to a pair of mid-age, mid-pair sort of guys...both coming off pretty significant injuries, is a bit questionable to me. Might not even be a big immediate step back if they both bounce back from injury quickly and smoothly. But it's a step back in future upside at a pretty critical position.


It's certainly a well-considered proposal. I'm just not sure that as an independent outside observer, i'd actually pull the trigger on it from either end.

I think you’re underrating Durzi by a lot, Marino by a little, and not factoring in how close Lamoureux appears to be.

 

[eojsmada]

Iginla is a winger. He proved that this season. I watched most of the games he played in Kelowna before the hip surgery.

interesting. everyone lists him as a center.

 

[rt]

interesting. everyone lists him as a center.

He played no center at all in his draft year. He was promised an opportunity to go back to C in his D+1 by his coach who wanted him to focus his game without the pressure of C. It worked tremendously as evidenced by his rocketing up the draft boards from a mid 2nd to a top ten pick. This season, true to his word, his coach let him play C again. For the first time in Kelowna. I watched nearly every game. He looked like a winger playing C. He was moved back to the wing prior to his season being shut down due to the hip.

I could see him being given another shot at C next season in Kelowna. But you don’t usually get an NHL C out of a junior player who’s rarely played the position for a couple of years. It happens. It’s not typical.

 

[tsujimoto74]

What does each team's fans think about it?

As an outsider, I could see the valuations work and it definitely should meet needs for Buffalo (top-4 RD and buy-low on some skilled toughness in Crouse), and Utah looks deeper up the middle with Cooley - Cozens - Hayton. Whenever Durzi is back he could be the fill-in for that RD spot? One small add from Buffalo IMO could be adding Benson since Utah looks thin at LW (Maccelli hasn't been good, but they can't ask for much since Cozens is the big add and Crouse doesn't have much value in a 1-for-1 swap).

Would both teams do Cozens + Benson for Kesselring + Crouse?

You get Benson’s name out of your mouth. Not for sale. And that’s atrocious value.

 

[rt]

Would rather see BA try to sign someone like Bennett to fill in the 2C role this off season. Probably would make only slightly more than Cozen's current contract. Not to mention, he is already very familiar with the system AT tries to run in Utah while being more consistent and much needed playoff experience/performance for the young team.

Love Bennett. Worried we’re only a couple of years from the wheels falling off. Warriors like that often age like milk.

 

[TageGod]

Considering the poll is mostly even for each option, must be a good value trade, if not for a small offset draft pick.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Yup. The player with the most upside is Cozens. And we’ve all seen how good ex Sabre’s can be when on other clubs.

Everybody knew how good the players the Sabres moved on from were (ROR, Eichel, Reinhart). Cozens is not on the same planet as either of those 3.

Hell I’d rather have Mitts back over him. At least we know he’s a center.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Everybody knew how good the players the Sabres moved on from were (ROR, Eichel, Reinhart). Cozens is not on the same planet as either of those 3.

Hell I’d rather have Mitts back over him. At least we know he’s a center.

I very much remember posters on this forum telling me ROR was a glorified 3C, Reinhart away from Eichel would be lucky to score 40-50 points, and Eichel obviously had the uncertainty around his injury/recovery. So I don’t think everyone knew (with the exception of Eichel, who had concerns about stuff other than his talent) how good those guys were before we moved them.

People don’t watch Buffalo. It’s a small market team that hasn’t made the playoffs in over a decade.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Cozens for Crouse and Kesselring and...c'mon get off the pot no GM with half a brain pulls this off unless Utah throws in DBut and DSimashov and a first rounder in 2025 and Utah can keep Kesselring

 

[Zman5778]

Cozens for Crouse and Kesselring and...c'mon get off the pot no GM with half a brain pulls this off unless Utah throws in DBut and DSimashov and a first rounder in 2025 and Utah can keep Kesselring

Buffalo is uninterested in futures if we're trading Cozens away. Hence the hockey deal involving actual NHL players.

 

[rt]

Cozens for Crouse and Kesselring and...c'mon get off the pot no GM with half a brain pulls this off unless Utah throws in DBut and DSimashov and a first rounder in 2025 and Utah can keep Kesselring

Great post. Thought provoking.

 

[Zman5778]

@rt Our Athletic beat reporter must read this site:

Sabres trade mailbag: Evaluating your proposals for Jordan Kyrou, Nazem Kadri and more

The Sabres have a lot on their roster to-do list. What do fans suggest ahead of the NHL trade deadline?

www.nytimes.com

Cozens feels like too much to give up for Kesselring alone, but Utah also has another player who popped up in a few questions from readers: Lawson Crouse. Crouse, a 6-foot-4 winger, is 27 and in the third year of a five-year contract that pays him just over $4 million per year. He’s on pace for a down year after hitting 40-plus points in back-to-back seasons. But he should finish the season with at least 150 hits for the eighth straight year and also wears a letter for Utah. His two-way game and leadership would make him an appealing target for the Sabres, who need to add more experience and grit to their roster. Maybe a deal centered around these pieces could be the start of a negotiation. But is that enough to convince the Sabres to part with Cozens?

 

[rt]

@rt Our Athletic beat reporter must read this site:

Sabres trade mailbag: Evaluating your proposals for Jordan Kyrou, Nazem Kadri and more

The Sabres have a lot on their roster to-do list. What do fans suggest ahead of the NHL trade deadline?

www.nytimes.com

Haha. That’s hilarious. Nice!

 

[cobra427]

I think Crouse will bounce back next year, and I think Kesslering is a top 4D right now. A big all around winger like Crouse and a cost controlled young top 4D like Kesslering is too much to give up for Cozens. Utah is better off finding a C as a UFA or trading in the summer. I am not sold on Cozens as a solid 2C along with his contract. Utah shouldn't over pay for him based on his play this year just like nobody should over pay for Crouse this year either.

 

[Chainshot]

@rt Our Athletic beat reporter must read this site:

Sabres trade mailbag: Evaluating your proposals for Jordan Kyrou, Nazem Kadri and more

The Sabres have a lot on their roster to-do list. What do fans suggest ahead of the NHL trade deadline?

www.nytimes.com

He's not the only one.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

This Sabres fan says deal, no take-backs.

Being devil's advocate here - what's in it for Utah? Cozens shows no sign of recapturing the form that made him a breakout player 2 seasons ago.

 

[Chainshot]

This Sabres fan says deal, no take-backs.

Being devil's advocate here - what's in it for Utah? Cozens shows no sign of recapturing the form that made him a breakout player 2 seasons ago.

Utah is in the market for a 2C, Crouse is having a down year too. Many seem to think they can cure what ails Cozens.

 

[rt]

This Sabres fan says deal, no take-backs.

Being devil's advocate here - what's in it for Utah? Cozens shows no sign of recapturing the form that made him a breakout player 2 seasons ago.

It’s a gamble. Sounds like you have no hope for Cozens. I’d be interested in hearing from you on what you think Cozens is. How did he get here, and what does his future look like?

Utah is in the market for a 2C, Crouse is having a down year too. Many seem to think they can cure what ails Cozens.

Interested in your perspective on Cozens, also. And my Buffalo fan. I’ve seen many point to the Hathaway fight as the beginning of the spiral. Others have blamed the environment. And I’ve seen some claim that the outlier season was as a result of fire wagon, unstructured hockey due to coaching issues. EDIT: looks like Sabres had 3rd most GF in the NHL that season but 6th worst GA. So that tracks somewhat, it’s also just the most successful season they’ve had since cozens came into the league, so there’s that

 

[Chainshot]

It’s a gamble. Sounds like you have no hope for Cozens. I’d be interested in hearing from you on what you think Cozens is. How did he get here, and what does his future look like?


Interested in your perspective on Cozens, also. And my Buffalo fan. I’ve seen many point to the Hathaway fight as the beginning of the spiral. Others have blamed the environment. And I’ve seen some claim that the outlier season was as a result of fire wagon, unstructured hockey due to coaching issues.

Personally, I think Granato and Adams encouraging Cozens to think he could come back from his 30-goal year and be a 40 goal guy was part of it. They framed what he should focus on incorrectly IMO rather than focusing on getting better in other areas. Also, he is very good as the F1 due to his size and skating to get in on the forecheck to take the man and start contesting pucks. At center, he's caught in the area where he's supposed to be the defensive cover and when the line blows it, he appears to take it very hard. The kid is one of those who wears his heart on his sleeve. As a RW, I think he can be the player he is best at, honestly. Or if there is a winger who can be the defensive conscience for his line which honestly has never really happened. He was the eldest of the trio for a long time with Peterka and Quinn and while Quinn has also had a rollercoaster of ups and downs, their downs have coincided.

As for the fight, again, Cozens was upset at the lack of fight in the team and then reacted to Hathaway's actions and got schooled. In my mind, he's still got it in his head that too many of his teammates don't care and won't get stuck in, which could be eating him up. He seems to care, a lot, and there is not a reckoning between the players about how they do not hang together but instead hang separately. Everyone on that team who has tried to pull the team into the fray gets it beaten out of them eventually because of the lack of consistency of it. Cozens has tried. Dahlin has tried and it seems to have given him a long-standing back issue. Krebs has tried and is more of gnat than anything. But it's rarely ever been all of them at once and each has tried and then become the target for the other team and drawn back from it.

At the end of the day, I think Cozens could be a very good RW2, in the mold of how he was used by Team Canada at both the U20's and Worlds. But being good at certain things and being asked to do other things leads him to overthinking and for him, that's death with the puck on his stick.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

It’s a gamble. Sounds like you have no hope for Cozens. I’d be interested in hearing from you on what you think Cozens is. How did he get here, and what does his future look like?


Interested in your perspective on Cozens, also. And my Buffalo fan. I’ve seen many point to the Hathaway fight as the beginning of the spiral. Others have blamed the environment. And I’ve seen some claim that the outlier season was as a result of fire wagon, unstructured hockey due to coaching issues.

Hathaway stole Cozens' soul. Just hasn't been the same player since.

At his best Cozens is a fast, physical forward with a good shot and decent hands, who will go to the net, and can win puck battles. Not great defensively, but he just turned 24. Doesn't see the ice particularly well. His game lends itself more to the wing than center. The Sabres have been trying, unsuccessfully, to prove otherwise.

Currently he's not terribly physical, falls down with minimal contact, regularly misses the net, and is somewhat of a turnover machine.

His upside at this point is 2nd-line winger, definitely not 1/2C. More likely a 3rd-line winger that can be taught a more defensive role.

Maybe he'll become the classic change-of-scenery turnaround player. Yes, that's a big gamble for whoever acquires him. Most Sabres' fans have lost patience.

 

[Chainshot]

Hathaway stole Cozens' soul. Just hasn't been the same player since.

At his best Cozens is a fast, physical forward with a good shot and decent hands, who will go to the net, and can win puck battles. Not great defensively, but he just turned 24. Doesn't see the ice particularly well. His game lends itself more to the wing than center. The Sabres have been trying, unsuccessfully, to prove otherwise.

Currently he's not terribly physical, falls down with minimal contact, regularly misses the net, and is somewhat of a turnover machine.

His upside at this point is 2nd-line winger, definitely not 1/2C. More likely a 3rd-line winger that can be taught a more defensive role.

Maybe he'll become the classic change-of-scenery turnaround player. Yes, that's a big gamble for whoever acquires him. Most Sabres' fans have lost patience.

Sure you aren't seeing Quinn doing the Steve Heinze human zamboni out there every shift and have confused him with Cozens?

 

[MOGlLNY]

I very much remember posters on this forum telling me ROR was a glorified 3C, Reinhart away from Eichel would be lucky to score 40-50 points, and Eichel obviously had the uncertainty around his injury/recovery. So I don’t think everyone knew (with the exception of Eichel, who had concerns about stuff other than his talent) how good those guys were before we moved them.

People don’t watch Buffalo. It’s a small market team that hasn’t made the playoffs in over a decade.

I should say Sabres fans knew and this isn’t the same situation coming out from our end. “Oh Sabres want to move him he must be a star in waiting”

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Sure you aren't seeing Quinn doing the Steve Heinze human zamboni out there every shift and have confused him with Cozens?

tumblingitis sabrensis

A lot of that going around the Sabres' dressing room this season.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Sure you aren't seeing Quinn doing the Steve Heinze human zamboni out there every shift and have confused him with Cozens?

I’ll still never forget Taylor Hall tripping over the blueline on a breakaway.

 

[rt]

Personally, I think Granato and Adams encouraging Cozens to think he could come back from his 30-goal year and be a 40 goal guy was part of it. They framed what he should focus on incorrectly IMO rather than focusing on getting better in other areas. Also, he is very good as the F1 due to his size and skating to get in on the forecheck to take the man and start contesting pucks. At center, he's caught in the area where he's supposed to be the defensive cover and when the line blows it, he appears to take it very hard. The kid is one of those who wears his heart on his sleeve. As a RW, I think he can be the player he is best at, honestly. Or if there is a winger who can be the defensive conscience for his line which honestly has never really happened. He was the eldest of the trio for a long time with Peterka and Quinn and while Quinn has also had a rollercoaster of ups and downs, their downs have coincided.

As for the fight, again, Cozens was upset at the lack of fight in the team and then reacted to Hathaway's actions and got schooled. In my mind, he's still got it in his head that too many of his teammates don't care and won't get stuck in, which could be eating him up. He seems to care, a lot, and there is not a reckoning between the players about how they do not hang together but instead hang separately. Everyone on that team who has tried to pull the team into the fray gets it beaten out of them eventually because of the lack of consistency of it. Cozens has tried. Dahlin has tried and it seems to have given him a long-standing back issue. Krebs has tried and is more of gnat than anything. But it's rarely ever been all of them at once and each has tried and then become the target for the other team and drawn back from it.

At the end of the day, I think Cozens could be a very good RW2, in the mold of how he was used by Team Canada at both the U20's and Worlds. But being good at certain things and being asked to do other things leads him to overthinking and for him, that's death with the puck on his stick.

Thanks. Appreciate the thoughtful response. I trust that I’d agree with what you’ve written, if I watched Sabres games like you do. But I’d like to just play the role of skeptic, for the sake of the conversation.

Having read your reply and that of @Deep Blue Metallic - I had a thought; would a player who could be a decent 2C in the right situation, but one who’s incapable of carrying a line, being both the primary offensive threat, the key to transition and the defensive conscience of the line, also be described in similar terms?

Keller and Schmaltz have a lot of chemistry. Cooley and Guenther have a lot of chemistry. Tij Iginla and Daniil But are on the way. Utah has some pretty decent options at wing, in the shorter and longer term. I know Buffalo does, too. But say that Cozens was able to center Keller and Schmaltz rather than Paterka and Quinn, does that change the equation enough?