Coyotes attendance in early years

[willyjagr]

Hey so just wondering with all the news about the coyotes and moving and such what the attendance numbers were for the coyotes when they first got to phoenix in 96. As all I have been able to get for them is the stuff on ESPN which only goes back to 2001. That or as well what was the attendance like for the other NHL teams during the 90's.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I would imagine that, like every other expansion team, the Coyotes were actually popular when they first started out. Not sure when attendance started plummeting, though.

But they have yet to turn a profit for any of their seasons in Phoenix, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

 

[dulzhok]

It was near capacity. They were a pretty good team, but never made it out of the first round (hold the current record for most years without winning a playoff round).

Arena location issue aside, when you are that bad for that long, you won't sell many tickets. Possible expects are markets like Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, but they've never had to experience that kind of losing streak.

Regarding profits, no one knows. Any profit/loss numbers thrown out owners should be taken with truckloads of salt.

 

[Artyukhin*]

if the Coyotes make the stanley Cup final next season will know .... yes will know

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

It was near capacity. They were a pretty good team, but never made it out of the first round (hold the current record for most years without winning a playoff round).

Arena location issue aside, when you are that bad for that long, you won't sell many tickets. Possible expects are markets like Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, but they've never had to experience that kind of losing streak.

Regarding profits, no one knows. Any profit/loss numbers thrown out owners should be taken with truckloads of salt.

Detroit's attendance was dreadful way back when they were the Dead Wings.

 

[kdb209]

Hey so just wondering with all the news about the coyotes and moving and such what the attendance numbers were for the coyotes when they first got to phoenix in 96. As all I have been able to get for them is the stuff on ESPN which only goes back to 2001. That or as well what was the attendance like for the other NHL teams during the 90's.

America West Arena (1996-2003): 16,210
Jobbing.Com Arena (2003-date): 17,799

AVERAGE ATTENDANCE          1992-93 1993-94 1994-95 1995-96 1996-97 1997-98 1998-99 1999-00
Phoenix Coyotes              -----   -----   -----   -----   15604   15405   15548   14991

AVERAGE ATTENDANCE          2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08
Phoenix Coyotes              14224   13161   13229	15592		15582	14988

 

[greatgazoo]

The Coyotes attendance woes are directly related to arena location more than anything else. When they played in downtown Phoenix at a basketball arena with terrible sightlines for hockey, they did fairly well at the turnstiles. Since moving to the much less populated Glendale suburb with a great arena for hockey, their attendance has suffered.

How could that be?

Well, the old adage for success in business starts with 3 things..
1. Location
2. Location
3. Location!

Getting to Glendale is a major pain in the butt for most residents of Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe and Mesa, which are the largest sections of the Phoenix Metro area.

Putting the team in Glendale was a huge mistake, not to mention the terrible lease.

 

[Guest]

All this talk about the arena location is great for out-of-towners, but as a local resident there is more to the variance and success of the Coyotes than location.

The early years when the team played in downtown Phoenix was the years of Numminen, Tkachuk, Roenick, and Khabibulin in their primes or nearing them. It was a one line team that had an all-star first line, but no depth to help the team go deeper in the playoffs. You shut down Roenick & Tkachuk, it was game over, and that happened far too often. Part of the problem was the lack of focus and effort on developing players. There is a long stretch of 1st rounders that were complete duds, and drafts that produced no legit NHL talent for the Coyotes.

By the time the team was sold, the stars like Tkachuk were traded for Nagy, Roenick essentially for Langkow, Khabibulin for Mike Johnson & Paul Mara, and Numminen for Mike Sillinger. During the Tkachuk-Roenick era the team made the playoffs every year, except the year they were dismantled. Since then, the Coyotes only made the playoffs one time on the back of a Hart nominated Sean Burke goaltending streak with Bobby Francis as the Coach of the Year and the Homer Line (Nagy-Langkow-Johnson) leading the team in scoring.

This team has failed to properly build, even from the time it was dismantled from the Tkachuk-Roenick era, and instead it's been a constant rebuilding phase that was attempted to speed up with failed free agent signings like Tony Amonte, Brett Hull, Owen Nolan, and Jeremy Roenick past their primes.

Phoenix is a bandwagon market, it always has been. The fans will only come out to see a winner, a team that is going to the playoffs.

Many outsiders fail to see the direct link with the failure of the franchise, but the locals are not blind to the fact that it has been Wayne Gretzky's hand picked selections and friends that have hurt this team all of these years. From turning away Benoit Allaire as the goaltending coach to replacing him with Grant Fuhr (when he comes to town), hiring Paul Coffey as a powerplay coach (when he comes to town), hiring Ulf Samuelsson as the assistant coach, hiring Pat Conacher as the assistant coach who then went to the farm and stunted the development of the players, and this only after Marty McSorley had made sure the farm wouldn't produce NHL talent. It's commonly referred to the FOG, Friends of Gretzky, and it includes management like when Cliff Fletcher was the acting GM and dismantled the playoff team, succeeded by Mike Barnett who had been a player agent for some 20 odd years.

In the 13 years that the Coyotes have been in Phoenix, it was only two years ago when Don Maloney was brought in that this team looked like it had any real sense of direction. I think this team is somewhat on track in terms of building, but it's still hampered by the FOG in terms of coaching. When the FOG leaves the Coyotes, you will see this team develop into the best incarnation you have seen in Phoenix, but they need a real coach to get them there.

Maloney has his faults too, getting his brother-in-law (Sulliman) a job as the associate coach after spending 15 years on Wall Street after a brief NHL coaching gig and NHL playing career.

 

[greatgazoo]

All this talk about the arena location is great for out-of-towners, but as a local resident there is more to the variance and success of the Coyotes than location.

The early years when the team played in downtown Phoenix was the years of Numminen, Tkachuk, Roenick, and Khabibulin in their primes or nearing them. It was a one line team that had an all-star first line, but no depth to help the team go deeper in the playoffs. You shut down Roenick & Tkachuk, it was game over, and that happened far too often. Part of the problem was the lack of focus and effort on developing players. There is a long stretch of 1st rounders that were complete duds, and drafts that produced no legit NHL talent for the Coyotes.

By the time the team was sold, the stars like Tkachuk were traded for Nagy, Roenick essentially for Langkow, Khabibulin for Mike Johnson & Paul Mara, and Numminen for Mike Sillinger. During the Tkachuk-Roenick era the team made the playoffs every year, except the year they were dismantled. Since then, the Coyotes only made the playoffs one time on the back of a Hart nominated Sean Burke goaltending streak with Bobby Francis as the Coach of the Year and the Homer Line (Nagy-Langkow-Johnson) leading the team in scoring.

This team has failed to properly build, even from the time it was dismantled from the Tkachuk-Roenick era, and instead it's been a constant rebuilding phase that was attempted to speed up with failed free agent signings like Tony Amonte, Brett Hull, Owen Nolan, and Jeremy Roenick past their primes.

Phoenix is a bandwagon market, it always has been. The fans will only come out to see a winner, a team that is going to the playoffs.

Many outsiders fail to see the direct link with the failure of the franchise, but the locals are not blind to the fact that it has been Wayne Gretzky's hand picked selections and friends that have hurt this team all of these years. From turning away Benoit Allaire as the goaltending coach to replacing him with Grant Fuhr (when he comes to town), hiring Paul Coffey as a powerplay coach (when he comes to town), hiring Ulf Samuelsson as the assistant coach, hiring Pat Conacher as the assistant coach who then went to the farm and stunted the development of the players, and this only after Marty McSorley had made sure the farm wouldn't produce NHL talent. It's commonly referred to the FOG, Friends of Gretzky, and it includes management like when Cliff Fletcher was the acting GM and dismantled the playoff team, succeeded by Mike Barnett who had been a player agent for some 20 odd years.

In the 13 years that the Coyotes have been in Phoenix, it was only two years ago when Don Maloney was brought in that this team looked like it had any real sense of direction. I think this team is somewhat on track in terms of building, but it's still hampered by the FOG in terms of coaching. When the FOG leaves the Coyotes, you will see this team develop into the best incarnation you have seen in Phoenix, but they need a real coach to get them there.

Maloney has his faults too, getting his brother-in-law (Sulliman) a job as the associate coach after spending 15 years on Wall Street after a brief NHL coaching gig and NHL playing career.

Good points, and there's no doubt in my mind that Phoenix could be another Carolina if they could only have a playoff run.

However, I have a friend who lives in Phoenix (and is a Canadian) who won't go see a losing team when it takes him over an hour to get to the game on a weeknight.

I also heard that to get there from Scottsdale, even on a Sunday night, it takes 45 mins to get to the arena in Glendale.

 

[kivaerijo]

Good points, and there's no doubt in my mind that Phoenix could be another Carolina if they could only have a playoff run.

However, I have a friend who lives in Phoenix (and is a Canadian) who won't go see a losing team when it takes him over an hour to get to the game on a weeknight.

I also heard that to get there from Scottsdale, even on a Sunday night, it takes 45 mins to get to the arena in Glendale.

that may be true now. when i lived out there 97-2000, i lived in glendale (75th and glendale. not far from the stadium i think). that town is put together so well, street wise, that it never took me longer than 35 minutes to get to scottsdale. traffic never seemed to be crazy, and getting to a highway was always easy. it may have changed since then, but at that time, i would have drove to mesa and probably past the superstition highway to watch games.

and in a town like chicago, i have family that goes to 60% of the games and it easily takes an hour to 90 minutes to get there.

i agree glendale wasnt a great idea, but you cant use that as an excuse.

and that also shows that if the team wins, people will go. sure its bandwagon, but that is most sport fans

oh ya. when i was there for the whiteouts in late 90's they place was full. even when the suns were playing well too